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George Blackham 11220 Worcestershire R and 389136 Labour Corp.

Also just seen this which says he was convicted of desertion. Crossed out on the top but repeated again below. Not sure what the rest means.


Link (if registered) goes to Medal Card despite what it says.
 
MWS said:
Can't see the actual records so I do have 2 questions.

Was George's service continuous? He didn't leave and then re-join at the outbreak of the war?

And what was the occupation he put when his daughter Ethel Gertrude was baptised?
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I wondered about him joining back up for WW1.
 
Thank you both.
Some of his papers are on Findmypast. He is confirmed in 1911 Census in India with the 2nd Battalion Worcestershire Regiment. There is an Employment sheet dated 1913. So couldn't be in Canada. He signed up for 12 years, 7 yrs with the colours and 5 in reserve. 7 yrs would take him to 1915 so not able to leave and then be called up in 1914.
Hence reference to Canada can not be him. I accept all of his relatives etc keep coming back to marriage certificate but if he married he did not emigrate. I can only assume it was another "George" or there was a reason for this deception.
I haven't found Ethel Gertrude's baptism, but I have to admit I haven't looked very hard.
I still believe George continually changes his addresses because he has no fixed abode. He has a drinking problem which though is not referred to after his transfer in 1915 could be a reason for continually moving.
Perhaps after his pension stopped he disappeared for his own reasons.
Again thank you I really do appreciate the time and energy you have put into trying to pin my man down.
David
 
Thanks for that update.
May I ask if there is anything on his rcord which actually links him to John and Emma?
 
MWS said:
And what was the occupation he put when his daughter Ethel Gertrude was baptised?
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it was "agent".

If, as has been suggested, "army George" was a bit of a wanderer then I am beginning to wonder if.....
  • George who married Laura is the son of John and Emma - lied about age on marriage cert as earlier suggested.
  • "Army George" is a relative who lodged with John and Emma but is not the George on the census with them.
John was one of 16 children (4 dying young) born to George and Harriet. So plenty of possible relatives. James (youngest) had a son George but haven't checked him out yet.
 
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Off-hand I think John's brothers Thomas and James had sons named George. Thomas' son died young and James' was born in 1900ish.

Not sure what the 'agent' is about because he is a brass worker in 1901 and 1911 (assuming it's the same person.
 
I did wonder if he might just have used the name Blackham - if he had been "in trouble" the army might not have taken him so perhaps he used for eg his Mother's maiden name. Just speculation but that is why I am curious if John (or Emma) are actually named on his records or are we just presuming because there is a son George and a later eroll gives the same address?

1911 census for George, Laura and Ethel appears to be signed by George - but if the army one is in India it can't be the same person.
 
I'm fairly convinced that the George Blackham that marries Laura and emigrates to Canada is the son of John & Emma. His birth registration & dob from emigration correspond, as does his occupation in 1901 & 1911. And in 1911 he is living a street away. Also, Laura is a witness on his sister's marriage.

Following on from your using a different name for some reason, George had an elder brother John William b1885. There are pension records for him dated 1903 I think but he doesn't appear on the 1911 census. Maybe he was discharged for some reason and then used his brother's name to re-join. Disappointingly, I'm not sure what happened to him.
 
There appears to be an obituary for a John William Blackham of about the right age in Ontario in 1947.
 
I agree about the George who went to Canada being the son of John and Emma (I think the Thomas on the marriage cert is an error) - there are too may coincidences.
Snap - I think John William might have ended up in Canada as well. I can see, but can't access because I don't have an international sub. a death in Ontario plus other references.
 
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Ooh - Worcester reg and India - very much a coincidence.
That makes it seem as if he went to Canada after his pension (if he was George) ceased in 1921.
 
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The son (as in the obituary) has an immigration form on Familysearch.
States born in England and closest relative in UK is Grandfather Foxall living at 693 Warwick Road. This is the address where John is listed on eroll and where George is noted as living on the pension record. Does this suggest George (not on eroll) and John (on eroll) are the same person?
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John went to Canada in 1922 as Jack - have found immigration record - going to sister Mrs Sivier (post #29). also names Father as John Blackham Francis Road, Hay Mills.
So son John Thomas and wife Elsie (Foxall) went to join him later. Elsie died in 1945
 
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So, I was wrong when I said the John Blackham at 693 Warwick Road was George's cousin, it was actually his brother (1921 census has age wrong).

Which all seems to confirm that John William Blackham used his brother's name (George) to re-enlist. And George himself was never in the army.
 
Thank you both.
You have been very busy. Yes he appears on 1891/1901 census at the address of John and Emma. I don't think the address appears on his enlistment papers but I will check tomorrow night.
I am really not sure at all. I have my doubts though because of his drinking habit I think he could change his name to suit his needs.
 
Sorry just saw your obituary for John William Blackham.I will check tomorrow if he is in the Worcestershire Regiment. Let's see where that takes us.
 
Hopefully, for the theory that John used his brother's name, there aren't any.

As mentioned previously there is what appears to be a Chelsea Pensioner record (Ancestry & findmypast) for John William Blackham. Trial and error with the search criteria and he seems to have enlisted in 1903 and was discharged (conveniently) in 1906.
 
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John William Blackham enlisted on 19 October,1903 at B'ham. he was already serving in the Militia, 5th Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment. Served 85 days, discharged "not likely to become an efficient soldier" on 11 January, 1904. Served in the Cheshire Regiment, 7258 as a Pte. Not the Worcestershire Regiment. George is shown as a brother and living a 12 Mount Pleasant Grove. Papers on Findmypast.
I am not sure what to make of his obituary, he clearly never served in the Worcester's and George was in India from December, 1906 until early 1913, and transferred to the Labour Corp in December 1915. He was discharged in 1919. So you could make this fit around George's service, but not his.
Not sure where we are any more!

David
 
That's good.

What we're saying is that George was never in the army and all the army records supposedly for him are for his brother John using his name. Probably because of his prior discharge.

If there had been records for John for WWI it would have ruled it out.

This would explain all the conflicting records for George and the obituary for John.
 
MWS,
If John served then he was discharged as not suitable, than allowed to enlist and serve for 11 years. No medical records to compare.
Says not married but was and collects "George's" pension!
Than emigrates.
What about drink problem. George is the good guy but just disappears after 1921.
Sorry still have my doubts.
David
 
Admittedly it's circumstantial.

All the addresses for the army records are associated with the family of John and George Blackham, so it would be a huge coincidence if it wasn't a very close relative (even a cousin which there isn't anyway) and the final address is where John Blackham is living in 1921.

John's lie was simple - his name - he didn't marry until after he was discharged (in 1919). What checks would be made to make sure someone was telling the truth when they enlisted? Enlisting in a different regiment what chances were there of being found out? The drink problem would be John's.

George doesn't disappear, he emigrates to Canada in 1912 where presumedly he dies. He is followed by sister Ethel and then John. The discrepancies on George's marriage to Laura could be due to his brother using his name (sorry speculation again).

It is a lot to accept so your doubts are understandable, my opinion is ultimately irrelevant.

A couple of things might help to eliminate George as being the person in the Worcs - his death record in Canada which usually lists both parents' names, unfortunately it is after what's available, or his birth certificate which should give his dob to compare with the emigration records.

One other thing is if both enlistment forms are signed you could compare signatures to see if they match, no idea how easy that would be.
 
Presumably "george" vanishes from UK records after 1921 when the pension stops and he reverts to being called John again.
 
MWS said:
Admittedly it's circumstantial.

All the addresses for the army records are associated with the family of John and George Blackham, so it would be a huge coincidence if it wasn't a very close relative (even a cousin which there isn't anyway) and the final address is where John Blackham is living in 1921.

John's lie was simple - his name - he didn't marry until after he was discharged (in 1919). What checks would be made to make sure someone was telling the truth when they enlisted? Enlisting in a different regiment what chances were there of being found out? The drink problem would be John's.

George doesn't disappear, he emigrates to Canada in 1912 where presumedly he dies. He is followed by sister Ethel and then John. The discrepancies on George's marriage to Laura could be due to his brother using his name (sorry speculation again).

It is a lot to accept so your doubts are understandable, my opinion is ultimately irrelevant.

A couple of things might help to eliminate George as being the person in the Worcs - his death record in Canada which usually lists both parents' names, unfortunately it is after what's available, or his birth certificate which should give his dob to compare with the emigration records.

One other thing is if both enlistment forms are signed you could compare signatures to see if they match, no idea how easy that would be.
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MWS,
A well presented case which you argue very coherently.
I don't consider your opinion irrelevant in the slightest.
I will check the signatures but from memory they were not overly clear.
I have found this journey very challenging and have been appreciative of both you and Janice 's research skills l would not have found some of the information you both dug up.
Thank you.
David
 
MWS said:
Admittedly it's circumstantial.

John's lie was simple - his name - he didn't marry until after he was discharged (in 1919). What checks would be made to make sure someone was telling the truth when they enlisted?

A couple of things might help to eliminate George as being the person in the Worcs - his death record in Canada which usually lists both parents' names, unfortunately it is after what's available, or his birth certificate which should give his dob to compare with the emigration records.
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We know records weren't checked as that is why boys were able to sign up underage.

Do we know when George died? The newspaper site where John's obituary came from lists several references to a George Blackham in Windsor, Canada including his estate in 1977. I haven't subscribed so can't read the full articles.

Also just realised the obituary refers to "brother George in Roseland" a suburb of Windsor. Linking John to the George (and Laura) who emigrated.
 
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