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Furnace lane..
- Thread starter Astoness
- Start date
TOPSYTURVEY
brum
How interesting to see the drawings of the schoolhouse and of Margs Dads taxi. The times I have looked at the horse and cart and didn,t notice what building would have been in the background.
A great find and documents. Never noticed that house in Furnace Lane before and since the lane was so close to the house one wonders which came first. The pictures show the house further away. First class observation of the house at the bottom of the court...super bit of provenance also. On a more domestic note...it seems that the back-to-back houses behind the house had loo's at the bottom of the older residence garden and there seems to be connecting loo's for the house. So was such plumbing outside for the residences in the old building also. The house seemed to change in the two pictures and maybe the front portico was re-used on the left side in the re-build.
i was thinking same rupert...definately something added at a later date to the house..was also wondering which came first guildford st or guildford house the same with furnace lane...im sticking my neck out here and guessing that the house came before both and that guildford st was named after the house but stand to be corrected...maybe older maps can confirm or not as the case maybe...
lyn
lyn
Just thinking about it...Furnace Lane probably followed a boundry line between properties and in past contributions it was thought that the lane was the route taken to transfer ashes from Aston Furnace to the build site of Aston Hall. Used in foundations...maybe to make cinder blocks or concrete or some such. So Aston Hall was built before the Civil War. I suspect that the winding lane in the picture front was Furnace lane. It seems to have straightened out a bit latterly. So the house would have fronted on the lane possibly which makes sense of it's allignment maybe...might have been the only access road at one time...just a few thoughts.
I suspect that Furnace Lane is very old and was used to carry charcoal from the forests to the furnace for years. Denuding the countryside of trees. It was a huge forrest area at one time. To become farmland...kind of a requirement too. Need to check the dates of these occurencies and find some older maps.
I suspect that Furnace Lane is very old and was used to carry charcoal from the forests to the furnace for years. Denuding the countryside of trees. It was a huge forrest area at one time. To become farmland...kind of a requirement too. Need to check the dates of these occurencies and find some older maps.
all good points there rupert...im hoping that marg fry will add to this thread because her memory of living there is very good...will need her to confirm this but i think she said that furnace lane ran on the right of guildford house as you look at it in the drawings and that the wall of furnace lane was so close to the house there was no room to stand back and take pics of the house...
lyn
lyn
Rupert
From all my studying of the house over the years the house came first if you look at maps. It was mostly fields and meadows the picture on the. Aston furnace site shows how the land slopes down towards summer lane the house stood on the top of the hill in the middle section of furnace lane what you are seeing in the drawings is a side on view facing. Down towards Clifford street the house as we knew it all front doors opened in to the lane as passed from Clifford st to gerrard st it was surrounded on all sides by later buildings and we all had high brick 6' walls to the front so it was very private and unless you looked up you most likely not notice it.
As for the plumbing we all had our own separate toilets the middle part of the house number 9 had the original building which by the style would have housed the old bucket type toilets before modern ones were invented.
The kitchen in that house also had a large copper wash boiler i and fitted wooden dresser like you see in old stately houses it had so much history I could go on forever It would have been a very grand property in its day and perhaps we will be able to find out when it was built and if it had always been a school or something else it was very similar to soho house in style buts ours was complete. It had a beautiful curved staircase which must have lovely before the house was divided into three houses as this took away all daylight from it. Hope this will help you understand it bit more and there are other members on this site who have lived in this part of the house so I expect they will join in as well .
Marg fry
From all my studying of the house over the years the house came first if you look at maps. It was mostly fields and meadows the picture on the. Aston furnace site shows how the land slopes down towards summer lane the house stood on the top of the hill in the middle section of furnace lane what you are seeing in the drawings is a side on view facing. Down towards Clifford street the house as we knew it all front doors opened in to the lane as passed from Clifford st to gerrard st it was surrounded on all sides by later buildings and we all had high brick 6' walls to the front so it was very private and unless you looked up you most likely not notice it.
As for the plumbing we all had our own separate toilets the middle part of the house number 9 had the original building which by the style would have housed the old bucket type toilets before modern ones were invented.
The kitchen in that house also had a large copper wash boiler i and fitted wooden dresser like you see in old stately houses it had so much history I could go on forever It would have been a very grand property in its day and perhaps we will be able to find out when it was built and if it had always been a school or something else it was very similar to soho house in style buts ours was complete. It had a beautiful curved staircase which must have lovely before the house was divided into three houses as this took away all daylight from it. Hope this will help you understand it bit more and there are other members on this site who have lived in this part of the house so I expect they will join in as well .
Marg fry
Dear Lynn
Thank you for putting the pictures on the site people do seem to be interested I am really pleased.this one of the lane was taken standing more or less on the corner of the front edge of the house as you look at the drawing looking down towards Clifford st the houses that you can see are the later ones that were built if you look on the map you will see them there was about six if I remember right and the high wall is the back of the courts as they went down the hill their entrance was in Guildford st. I hope we will be able to find even more about its history thanks again
Margaret
Thank you for putting the pictures on the site people do seem to be interested I am really pleased.this one of the lane was taken standing more or less on the corner of the front edge of the house as you look at the drawing looking down towards Clifford st the houses that you can see are the later ones that were built if you look on the map you will see them there was about six if I remember right and the high wall is the back of the courts as they went down the hill their entrance was in Guildford st. I hope we will be able to find even more about its history thanks again
Margaret
happy to help in any way marg...i am finding this so interesting and just goes to show that although i was bought up around the area i had no idea that the house existed...here is another pic of the beginning of furnace lane from gower st...quite a few members on the forum remember that cafe..
marg the story behind those pics and many more of the area can be found on this thread they came from a private collection....we are so lucky to have them...hope you enjoy looking at the pics..click on the link below..hope you have a cuppa in front of you as it may take you some time to look at them all..
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=38980&highlight=aston+lozells+pics
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=38980&highlight=aston+lozells+pics
Lyn
When you first asked me about this I took a quick look and came to a conclusion, which I now think may be wrong. I did not take account of the fact that local mapmakers around 1833 were not as precise as the later large scale OS makers. There was a building on the 1833 map , but I thought it was off fromn where Guildford house was, but now think this was just error. Below is the map concerned (thanks to Peter Walker) where he has superimposed Fowlers 1833 map of Aston manor on the c1890 map. I have (very roughly) marked Gerrard st in green to enable you to get your bearings. The dotted line to the right of it would be the course of what became Furnace lane. Guildford House is a little off, but, as I say, this would be due to error. Certainly there was a house in close proximity to the spot in c 1833.
Now, following that I looked again at the c 1848 map I mentioned. I still have difficulty in correlating it overall to the modern map, but if we assume Gerome St is Gerrard St (certainly in 1862 it was gerrard st) then you can see guildford house just off the street. I have twisted the map round so that it is approximately in the same direction as we normally see, and marked the "guildford house" in red. Looking at directories. in the 1867 PO directory a Mrs Bodill is thereand it is listed as Gerrard St. In the corporation directory of 1862 it is listed in Gerrard st, but occupants do not seem to be named. The 1849 & 1855 whites directories list it as a private boarding school run by Frederick Ewen, and it is just listed as Aston New Town (no street). The early (pre 1860) PO directories do not cover aston well and seem to have missed it out.
So it would seem that there was a building in that area since at least 1833.
When you first asked me about this I took a quick look and came to a conclusion, which I now think may be wrong. I did not take account of the fact that local mapmakers around 1833 were not as precise as the later large scale OS makers. There was a building on the 1833 map , but I thought it was off fromn where Guildford house was, but now think this was just error. Below is the map concerned (thanks to Peter Walker) where he has superimposed Fowlers 1833 map of Aston manor on the c1890 map. I have (very roughly) marked Gerrard st in green to enable you to get your bearings. The dotted line to the right of it would be the course of what became Furnace lane. Guildford House is a little off, but, as I say, this would be due to error. Certainly there was a house in close proximity to the spot in c 1833.
Now, following that I looked again at the c 1848 map I mentioned. I still have difficulty in correlating it overall to the modern map, but if we assume Gerome St is Gerrard St (certainly in 1862 it was gerrard st) then you can see guildford house just off the street. I have twisted the map round so that it is approximately in the same direction as we normally see, and marked the "guildford house" in red. Looking at directories. in the 1867 PO directory a Mrs Bodill is thereand it is listed as Gerrard St. In the corporation directory of 1862 it is listed in Gerrard st, but occupants do not seem to be named. The 1849 & 1855 whites directories list it as a private boarding school run by Frederick Ewen, and it is just listed as Aston New Town (no street). The early (pre 1860) PO directories do not cover aston well and seem to have missed it out.
So it would seem that there was a building in that area since at least 1833.
The second map 1848 is a bit of a surprise. I think it shows what surely must be Guildford House and it's boundary pretty well. Furnace lane is a bit sketchy but can be made out. The area to the right of the Furnace shows development not seen before and it is where the huge mound of spoil used to be.... removed by 1848 if the map is right. And yet no sign of Alma Street or Inkerman at this point. So this would have been a short lived development of roads and dwellings. I think that the map shows a turn in from Furnace Lane to Guildford Ho. if you look closely and this seems to co-incide with a turn in to the remains of the garden on the 1890 OS..at the top most corner of the lot.
I find it hard to orientate the building sketches but the suggestion is that they are views looking south so that Furnace Lane would be to the left and it looks like there was a gate on the lane to the left of the house. So the right of the house is what would be seen past the horse and cart looking down the court Photo. At least I think so. It must have changed a lot over time.
I doubt that anyone trys harder to put all of this old stuff together than we do. We must be the experts by now. I suppose that since much of it has been scraped to the ground...there should be a record of some sort even if some of it is conjecture. I does not matter.
I find it hard to orientate the building sketches but the suggestion is that they are views looking south so that Furnace Lane would be to the left and it looks like there was a gate on the lane to the left of the house. So the right of the house is what would be seen past the horse and cart looking down the court Photo. At least I think so. It must have changed a lot over time.
I doubt that anyone trys harder to put all of this old stuff together than we do. We must be the experts by now. I suppose that since much of it has been scraped to the ground...there should be a record of some sort even if some of it is conjecture. I does not matter.
excellent mike and i agree with rupert that the 2nd map most certainly shows guildford house so thank you for all your efforts...
as soon as you mentioned the bodhills living there in 1867 i got my memory back...some time ago brassman asked me for help with his rellies who owned the company bodhills in gt hampton row and he had the address of guildford house at that point we could not help him much so i hope that one day he may log back on and see this thread as im sure he would love to see the drawings of the house...here is the link to the thread just to refresh our memories..the old map also proves that guildford st had not been cut so the the street must have been named after the house...many thanks mike..
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=37532&highlight=guildford+house
as soon as you mentioned the bodhills living there in 1867 i got my memory back...some time ago brassman asked me for help with his rellies who owned the company bodhills in gt hampton row and he had the address of guildford house at that point we could not help him much so i hope that one day he may log back on and see this thread as im sure he would love to see the drawings of the house...here is the link to the thread just to refresh our memories..the old map also proves that guildford st had not been cut so the the street must have been named after the house...many thanks mike..
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=37532&highlight=guildford+house
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Dear rupert
I have just been reading your message and I love the maps I think you are getting the direction wrong the house as you see in the drawings was west to east the right hand side is where the lane ran the gate was in my back garden and ran pararal with gerrard street it had been bricked up but pillars and opening still clear in our day all our front gardens opened in to the lane and I always thought that no 9 the middle one was the main entrance as it had double doors and a large open porch but could have been altered at a later date as you look at the drawing it still had floor to ceiling glass doors all on that side covered with a open veranda ,but perhaps originally that was the main entrance it does look like it by the drawing its a shame we can't find other views of it.
Thanks again
Marg fry
I have just been reading your message and I love the maps I think you are getting the direction wrong the house as you see in the drawings was west to east the right hand side is where the lane ran the gate was in my back garden and ran pararal with gerrard street it had been bricked up but pillars and opening still clear in our day all our front gardens opened in to the lane and I always thought that no 9 the middle one was the main entrance as it had double doors and a large open porch but could have been altered at a later date as you look at the drawing it still had floor to ceiling glass doors all on that side covered with a open veranda ,but perhaps originally that was the main entrance it does look like it by the drawing its a shame we can't find other views of it.
Thanks again
Marg fry
Ok, Marg. So the gate and fence would have run along Gerrard which places Furnace Lane, or what was left of it at that point, on the right side of the picture. That makes sense since the address was Gerrard St at the time of the picture and that would be the entrance to the property. So the view in the photograph past the horse and cart would have been from the left of the picture. It may have been a school at the time of the pictures since the figures may be children.
It might be that Furnace Lane was not trodden much in the time of the picture 1833/48 but rights of way being what they are in the uk...would have become more a feature of the terain again later when further development occured. Aston Furnace would not have been an iron smelter then either...and probably quite a different building...maybe wire mill or paper mill and steam power. No more charcoal required.
It might be that Furnace Lane was not trodden much in the time of the picture 1833/48 but rights of way being what they are in the uk...would have become more a feature of the terain again later when further development occured. Aston Furnace would not have been an iron smelter then either...and probably quite a different building...maybe wire mill or paper mill and steam power. No more charcoal required.
Dear Lynn
Sorry if I am confusing you the 4 that you posted of the lane it's the second one taken from gower st looking. Straight over gerrard st and up to our part of the lane where the wall of the large high building Jutes out that's was opposite our front garden gate hope that makes it clearer. I was looking at the cafe in the 1950 s it was called pats cafe as the people who owned it pat was the daughter and she was a. Beauty queen one day I was in there with my dad and a man talked us into having a monkey off him we were really excited till we told my mom and she went mad so we had to go back and tell him we couldn't have it but with hind site I think she was right funny how things come back to you.also in gower st there was the manor vinegar factory and about 15 yrs ago I had to go to I think it was burnt wood out brown hills way any way in gower st they had really ornate iron gates and that was a really old house as well perhaps that had been a manor house any way they had relocated out there and there was the gates exactly how there were in gower st it gave me a real shock I couldn't believe my eyes .
Margaret
Sorry if I am confusing you the 4 that you posted of the lane it's the second one taken from gower st looking. Straight over gerrard st and up to our part of the lane where the wall of the large high building Jutes out that's was opposite our front garden gate hope that makes it clearer. I was looking at the cafe in the 1950 s it was called pats cafe as the people who owned it pat was the daughter and she was a. Beauty queen one day I was in there with my dad and a man talked us into having a monkey off him we were really excited till we told my mom and she went mad so we had to go back and tell him we couldn't have it but with hind site I think she was right funny how things come back to you.also in gower st there was the manor vinegar factory and about 15 yrs ago I had to go to I think it was burnt wood out brown hills way any way in gower st they had really ornate iron gates and that was a really old house as well perhaps that had been a manor house any way they had relocated out there and there was the gates exactly how there were in gower st it gave me a real shock I couldn't believe my eyes .
Margaret
thanks marg ive got me bearings now...smashing to read all your memories of the lane and surroundings and yes i bet you had a bit shock seeing those old gates of the vinegar factory again...please keep them coming..i think mikejee has a little more info on guildford house which he will post when time permits...
lyn
lyn
I have looked at the Birmingham Post (up to 1900) to see if there were mentions of Guildford House. There are several, and the major ones are reproduced below.
The house is first mentioned in 1860, when it is described as being in Gerrard St. In April they are looking for a housemaid and a 15-16 year old boy for a gentleman's school. By May they have found the housemaid, but are still looking for the boy. In August two of their pupils are listed as being successful in the Oxford Middle examinations (which are probably like O-levels, or whatever thing has now replaced them, while in September they are looking for a lad to clean boots and knives and dig in the garden. Maybe the other one couldn't stand it there, or they did not find one in the requisite age group.In December there are two adverts with slightly different wording for the school's reopening after Christmas (below).
In 1862 one person matriculated at the University of London exams, Algernon Ewen, presumably the owners son, and in 1863 it was noted that "more than one" pupils from the school took the Oxford local exams.
In January 1864 an advert for "Cambridge House school, Hagley Road is placed, which states it has removed from Guioldford House (below). I would guess it moved over the Christmas holidays.
By February 1865 William Bodill occupies the house, and the death of his son is recorded. However in july 1865 there is a report (below) on the inquest into the death of William and committal of two men responsible for his manslaughter as a result of injuries received on 21st May when he tried to evict them from the grounds of Guildford House. It must be said that William does appear to have not been completely blameless. However, presumably because william at least partly brought it on himself, the charge was not proceeded with and a few days later they were discharged.
Finally in August 1869 there is the report of the marriage of the daughter of H N E McEvoy of Guildford House
The house is first mentioned in 1860, when it is described as being in Gerrard St. In April they are looking for a housemaid and a 15-16 year old boy for a gentleman's school. By May they have found the housemaid, but are still looking for the boy. In August two of their pupils are listed as being successful in the Oxford Middle examinations (which are probably like O-levels, or whatever thing has now replaced them, while in September they are looking for a lad to clean boots and knives and dig in the garden. Maybe the other one couldn't stand it there, or they did not find one in the requisite age group.In December there are two adverts with slightly different wording for the school's reopening after Christmas (below).
In 1862 one person matriculated at the University of London exams, Algernon Ewen, presumably the owners son, and in 1863 it was noted that "more than one" pupils from the school took the Oxford local exams.
In January 1864 an advert for "Cambridge House school, Hagley Road is placed, which states it has removed from Guioldford House (below). I would guess it moved over the Christmas holidays.
By February 1865 William Bodill occupies the house, and the death of his son is recorded. However in july 1865 there is a report (below) on the inquest into the death of William and committal of two men responsible for his manslaughter as a result of injuries received on 21st May when he tried to evict them from the grounds of Guildford House. It must be said that William does appear to have not been completely blameless. However, presumably because william at least partly brought it on himself, the charge was not proceeded with and a few days later they were discharged.
Finally in August 1869 there is the report of the marriage of the daughter of H N E McEvoy of Guildford House
mary hadleigh
knowlegable brummie
hi astoness the house in the back ground is number 9 furnace lane i used to live there marg fry lived next door to us at number 7a.
wow..excellent newspaper digging mike thank you so much..william bodhill is an ancestor of one of our members so i am hoping he picks this thread up..
hello mary great to have another member posting who lived in guildford house after it was split into 3 seperate dwellings...hope you are enjoying the research that is being done on the house...
lyn
hello mary great to have another member posting who lived in guildford house after it was split into 3 seperate dwellings...hope you are enjoying the research that is being done on the house...
lyn
brassman
New Member
Hi Lyn, I am back !!!
I am just so fascinated to see all this information on this feed and to see the pictures and maps showing where my great great great grandparents lived is just fantastic. And thank you so much for remembering me with the mention of “BODILL”
Regarding Rupert comment
“The second map 1848 is a bit of a surprise. I think it shows what surely must be Guildford House and its boundary pretty well. Furnace lane is a bit sketchy but can be made out. The area to the right of the Furnace shows development not seen before and it is where the huge mound of spoil used to be.... removed by 1848 if the map is right. And yet no sign of Alma Street or Inkerman at this point.”
This reference to “Alma” and “Inkerman” are of course from the battles of the Crimea, September and November 1854, so surmise that these streets were built and named post 1855
Regarding William Bodill, he was a bankruptcy court messenger, and as we know was killed in June 1865 close to, or in the grounds of Guildford House and indeed was recorded as living at the time at Guildford House on his probate record.
His wife Ann Bodill (nee Rogers) was recorded as living there in the 1867. I don’t know, and am having trouble finding out, when she died but I do know that she was bore 27 June 1803 so wonder if after the School moved in 1862 the Bodill’s bought Guildford House.
Well done everyone … it’s just so fascinating....
Thanks again Lyn
Adam
I am just so fascinated to see all this information on this feed and to see the pictures and maps showing where my great great great grandparents lived is just fantastic. And thank you so much for remembering me with the mention of “BODILL”
Regarding Rupert comment
“The second map 1848 is a bit of a surprise. I think it shows what surely must be Guildford House and its boundary pretty well. Furnace lane is a bit sketchy but can be made out. The area to the right of the Furnace shows development not seen before and it is where the huge mound of spoil used to be.... removed by 1848 if the map is right. And yet no sign of Alma Street or Inkerman at this point.”
This reference to “Alma” and “Inkerman” are of course from the battles of the Crimea, September and November 1854, so surmise that these streets were built and named post 1855
Regarding William Bodill, he was a bankruptcy court messenger, and as we know was killed in June 1865 close to, or in the grounds of Guildford House and indeed was recorded as living at the time at Guildford House on his probate record.
His wife Ann Bodill (nee Rogers) was recorded as living there in the 1867. I don’t know, and am having trouble finding out, when she died but I do know that she was bore 27 June 1803 so wonder if after the School moved in 1862 the Bodill’s bought Guildford House.
Well done everyone … it’s just so fascinating....
Thanks again Lyn
Adam
