Birchfield Road Perry Barr

[Di.Poppitt]

I have just ordered it Lyn, there were 3 left tonight.

 

[Big Gee]

Years ago I read somewhere that Roman archaeology had also been found around what's now Holford Drive and the area of the playing-fields. I can also remember reading that there was a Roman road roughly along the line of Kingstanding Road/Wellhead Lane/Stoneleigh Road/Wheeler St/Great Hampton Row. How true this is I don't know. When I was a lad people used to say that the Zig-Zag bridge was on the site of what was originally a Roman crossing of the Tame. Most of the Birmingham history and archaeology books I've read have been concerned only with the Middle Ages and later - there doesn't seem to be much published about the history of the area prior to the Norman Conquest. But obviously there was a Roman presence in the greater Birmingham area - ref: Metchley Fort, Icknield Street, etc. Interesting, and worth finding out more.

Big Gee

 

[Vivienne14]

Thanks Topsy for the info. And totally agree with you BigGee. Well worth digging deeper - sorry for the pun! What intrigues me is how this area developed from ancient to early 18th century. The area was predominantly rural until relatively modern times, with lots of mills and farms. Much of the history would still have been in the ground, undisturbed for many centuries, except for the work of the farmers plough of course! So good to be able to trace some of it, if only a glimpse. Viv.

 

[Big Gee]

It's surprising that the well-known Brummie archaeologust Prof. Mick Aston hasn't stuck his trowel in any ground around here. The nearest he got with 'Time Team' was the Boulton & Watt works at Smethwick.

Big Gee

 

[A Sparks]

Interesting about Holford Drive playing fields, when I was at Birchfield Road Junior we used to use them sometimes - don't remember seeing any Roman remains ;-)

 

[Big Gee]

Interesting about Holford Drive playing fields, when I was at Birchfield Road Junior we used to use them sometimes - don't remember seeing any Roman remains ;-)

I think the remains were probably pottery and other bits and pieces, rather than the remains of building. There was a water-mill in the vicinity too, but I don't think this was Roman.

 

[Astonian]

HI BIG GEE
That was a very intresting report on the subject regarding holdford rd and the tay ;
many years on holford rd perry barr end there was an allotments and i had a couple of plots on there
and i recall the old barron land many ; many years ago before any think was ever built on that holford rd
so do you think that the allotments down there could have been a roman site ;in its aye day ;?.
do you know if the allotments are still there at perry barr [ holford road ; ]
gra; i will E, MAIL you later later today ; alan ;; astonian

 

[dek carr]

Yes Alan the allotments are still there. Dek

 

[Astonian]

HI YA DEK
Nice to hear from you again and many thanks for lettin me know that the lotts; are still there ;
i spenta lot of time on that site all those years ago ; mind you i was single then ;every evening after work till dust i was there
at first i went and took it on i found it very stony and clay like it took me years to ferfect the ground
so after hearing from graham ; the history that explains it
best wishes dek have a nice week end ; alan ;; astonian ;;;

 

[Vivienne14]

Did you ever turn anything up Alan? How lovely if you had, as well as reap the benefits of all those veggies.

Lyn, your next mission could require a spade, a trowel, a small brush and a map. Stand by for more details .......... !! Viv.

 

[Big Gee]

Hi Alan and Dek,

I haven't been down there for ages myself. I know the playing-fields are still there, but the last time I drove down Wellhead Lane there was what appeared to be a new 'student village' on or near what used to be Holdford Drive. At one time you could walk along Holdford Drive from Aldridge Road to Brookvale Road, skirting the Kynoch Works if I remember correctly. Must go and have another look some time. I believe the water mill was operating until around the mid-19th century and was used mainly for blade-sharpening.

Big Gee

 

[Astoness]

This is part of what i had read lynLAND ADJACENT TO THE CROWN AND CUSHION PUBLIC HOUSE,
WELLINGTON ROAD, PERRY BARR, BIRMINGHAM
AN ARCHAEOLOGICAL DESK-BASED ASSESSMENT, 2006
SUMMARY
An archaeological desk-based assessment was carried out in January 2006 on land at
the Crown and Cushion public house, Wellington Road, Perry Barr, Birmingham (NGR
SP 0671 9088
) in advance of residential development. The site is located on the
north side of Wellington Road, adjacent to the Crown and Cushion, and at the
intersection of Walsall Road, Birchfield Road, Wellington Road and Aston Road.
Previous archaeological work to the west along Wellington Road identified
archaeological remains associated with a Roman kiln dating to the second century,
and evidence of settlement from the first and second centuries. The site is also close
to the predicted line of Icknield Street, and spot finds of Romano-British coins, and
the assessment has highlighted the potential for archaeological remains of this
period to survive within the site boundaries. The assessment also highlighted the
potential for archaeological remains of the post-medieval period to be present within
the site boundaries.

thanks tospy...let me at it lol

 

[Astoness]

Years ago I read somewhere that Roman archaeology had also been found around what's now Holford Drive and the area of the playing-fields. I can also remember reading that there was a Roman road roughly along the line of Kingstanding Road/Wellhead Lane/Stoneleigh Road/Wheeler St/Great Hampton Row. How true this is I don't know. When I was a lad people used to say that the Zig-Zag bridge was on the site of what was originally a Roman crossing of the Tame. Most of the Birmingham history and archaeology books I've read have been concerned only with the Middle Ages and later - there doesn't seem to be much published about the history of the area prior to the Norman Conquest. But obviously there was a Roman presence in the greater Birmingham area - ref: Metchley Fort, Icknield Street, etc. Interesting, and worth finding out more.

Big Gee

hi big gee and yes you are correct with the locations of the roman road..it seems that all my life i have never lived more than a 5 min walk from these locations...

lyn

 

[Vivienne14]

Now had a look at the survey that Topsy mentioned. There are a few maps in there which will be of interest. Here're two of them.

The possible route of Icknield Street. Map from 1775.

The Crown & Cushion area surveyed and the Roman kiln location from a map of 1890. Interestingly too the original Aston Villa ground is marked for you footie fans.

Viv.

 

[Big Gee]

Hi Vivienne,

your map would indicate that the Roman kiln was excavated in the area of Willmore Road and Leslie Road. There was a BCT Bus Garage just there, so I assume that the archaeology was carried out when that building was demolished? I never knew that.

One of these days I really must re-visit the area I grew up in....

Big Gee

 

[sidwho]

help, how near did the roman road pass the bus dept., in perry barr or along wellhead lane.or a bit moor perhaps in the imi grounds. any comments please, kind reguards sidwho

 

[Astoness]

Now had a look at the survey that Topsy mentioned. There are a few maps in there which will be of interest. Here're two of them.

View attachment 74495 The possible route of Icknield Street. Map from 1775.

View attachment 74496 The Crown & Cushion area surveyed and the Roman kiln location from a map of 1890. Interestingly too the original Aston Villa ground is marked for you footie fans.

Viv.

hi viv...thats a very interesting map showing aston villa football ground as was...think i may have mentioned on another thread that that area was known as aston villa..this was well before the football club was formed...i never knew thats where their ground was though...we learn all the time...by the way do you know the date of that map..and can anyone pinpoint exactly where the ground was like i can get my bearings...i do have a rough idea..
oh its ok ive just read the date of that map...
lyn

 

[sidwho]

lyn, my mate tells me, that he has being to the holt pub in witton lane. there is quite a lot of history in there about the villa grounds before they moved to villa park, hope this helps, kind reguards sidwho

 

[Astoness]

thanks for that sidwho...i was just wondering what is now built on the where the old villa ground used to be..most interesting even though im not a villa fan..

cheers..

lyn

 

[sidwho]

lyn, on wellington road by leslie road. just houses, hirons nursery as well. reguards sidwho

 

[sidwho]

holly trinty church, i was in the chouir there. from the church along bircfeild road, was the vicarage, which had a gate leading into the church grounds.nexed door was church house, which at the rear had a church hall built in the back garden, i think its still there. over the road from the church, in heathfeiled road was the pub called the bull. opposite the church in trinty road was a guarage, the the church vestry, where the vergey usedv to live. both of thest were demolished, and the mosqie was was built. opposite the bulls head was a caravan sales dept. then going down to where birchfeild house was. just allotments and waste land to haunton road. hope this clearars up some mystreries. sorry about the speeling. kind reguards sidwho

 

[Astoness]

hi sidwho never apologise for any spelling mistakes...its your memories that we want and thanks very much for yours about holy trinity church..i was christened there and still have my christening certificate from 1953.i remember that caravan sales pitch from when i was a girl and im sure our dad had an allotment somewhere round there...i will ask him next time i see him..

lyn

 

[Vivienne14]

thanks tospy...let me at it lol

The kiln's supposed to be located at about 224 Wellington Road. Don't know the road so don't know if it's now been built upon. A few details:

The kiln was excavated on the south side of Wellington Road in 1959. Remains of the kiln included tapered clay fire-bars, pieces of the floor, possible fragments of kiln walling, flat stone 'rubbers' used in manufacture and several hundred weights of sherds. The kiln products were 2nd century, but late 1st and early 2nd century pottery indicated earlier occupation of the site.

Viv.

 

[Dave M]

viv i think its now known as church road off the aldridge road..next to perry park...st johns church is still there..if i am wrong someone will correct me...

St John`s still there, pics from 2008

 

[Vivienne14]

Glad to hear it Dave. But have to admit I don't remember the church interior itself. Yet another place to go on the very long list of places to visit. Many thanks for the photos and the update. Viv.

 

[Big Gee]

Next door to the church is The Church Tavern - used to be a good pub, where we went on the occasional Sunday lunch-time. It's years and years since I've visited.

Big Gee

 

[Vivienne14]

Hi Vivienne,

your map would indicate that the Roman kiln was excavated in the area of Willmore Road and Leslie Road. There was a BCT Bus Garage just there, so I assume that the archaeology was carried out when that building was demolished? I never knew that.

One of these days I really must re-visit the area I grew up in....

Big Gee

Hi Big Gee. This 1938 map might help you to place the kiln in relation to the bus depot. It's again a map from the Crown & Cushion survey. Viv.

 

[Big Gee]

Thanks Viv. Looking at your map it would seem that the kiln was located close to Hiron's Nurseries, in the area of allotments we knew as The Gilly Gardens, years ago. So not too close to the bus garage, then.

Big Gee

 

[Astoness]

hi viv thats a good clear map showing the spot of the kiln...big gee i agree with you i think its between hirons nurseries and the large house that is next to the nursery but quite a way back off wellington road...probably nothing to see but i will take a look when time permits...

lyn

 

[Astoness]

just thinking ....i will run off a copy of your map viv..