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Great Barr Cottage

Regarding the contours of the current and recent roads. It will be noticed in the picture I submitted that the newer buildings are on a rising mound which suggests that when the road was widened it was also lowered. I believe the side of the road that was used for the widening was where our cottage was situated and there is a good chance that the cottage survived until the road widening.
If there was another building beyond the church that might throw a 'spanner in the works'.
Anyway were are hot on the trail again it seems. ;)
 
If the Institute was the former church I have mentioned then we are up a blind alley again as there is no other building close to the institute.
Thanks Janice for that map, it add to those we already have.
However, we do know, now, what exists where the institute/church once stood. :eek:
 
Radiorails said:
Regarding the contours of the current and recent roads. It will be noticed in the picture I submitted that the newer buildings are on a rising mound which suggests that when the road was widened it was also lowered. I believe the side of the road that was used for the widening was where our cottage was situated and there is a good chance that the cottage survived until the road widening.
If there was another building beyond the church that might throw a 'spanner in the works'.
Anyway were are hot on the trail again it seems. ;)
Click to expand...
In the original pic (post#1) the cottage and the building next to it are not on a corner. The distance between telephone poles was about 100/150 yards and the cottage is almost 3 of those lengths from a possible corner in the distance.

The church on the Newton Rd is directly on the corner of Hamstead Rd and its front entrance faces the Newton Rd as shown in Pic 1 of a 1947 aerial view. Pic 2 shows a similar view today.

With the church facing the Newton Rd, the road in the original pic Cottage Pic would have to be the Newton Rd looking east towards the high ground of the Scott Arms area. I can't see the slightest indication of high ground in the distance or any sign of the steep hill which passes the Hamstead Rd corner where the church stands. Also the shadows in the original pic do not seem to match a view looking east.
The original postcard pic appears to have been wrongly labelled ...:)
Pic 1 Aerial View 1947
Newton1947col.JPG

Pic 2 Aerial View today
Newtonnowbw.JPG
 
I think Radiorail's suggestion that the road levels were changed when Newton Road Road was widened could be an important factor in all this. After all the road was at least only half its current width before widening (well at least around Newton).

Viv.
 
oldMohawk said:
In the original pic (post#1) the cottage and the building next to it are not on a corner. The distance between telephone poles was about 100/150 yards and the cottage is almost 3 of those lengths from a possible corner in the distance.

The church on the Newton Rd is directly on the corner of Hamstead Rd and its front entrance faces the Newton Rd as shown in Pic 1 of a 1947 aerial view. Pic 2 shows a similar view today.

With the church facing the Newton Rd, the road in the original pic Cottage Pic would have to be the Newton Rd looking east towards the high ground of the Scott Arms area. I can't see the slightest indication of high ground in the distance or any sign of the steep hill which passes the Hamstead Rd corner where the church stands. Also the shadows in the original pic do not seem to match a view looking east.
The original postcard pic appears to have been wrongly labelled ...:)
Pic 1 Aerial View 1947
View attachment 121827

Pic 2 Aerial View today
View attachment 121828
Click to expand...

The Church shown is the Allen Memorial United Reformed and was built in 1932. I will put more info of the history of the chapels here on the “Asbury Cottage” Thread later.
 
With all the discussion about Newton Road this photo dated 1964 brings back some memories for me. I often travelled on a West Bromwich No 6 from the Scott Arms. The photo is taken from near the railway bridge and looks north east with Ray Hall Lane behind the bus and the line of trees following the River Tame. The road widening started in 1964 and a mound of earth on the right was part of it. The higher ground in the distance is towards the Scott Arms area and beyond.
No 6 1964 Newton Rd.jpg
 
Looking good Pedro !! The roads and buildings certainly seem to match up with what we know. Viv.
 
The school was in Spouthouse Lane which approaches Hamstead Road at the wrong angle compared to the view in the Cottage Pic. In 2016 I uploaded a pic of the school and a map in the Hamstead Colliery thread. The map in post#131 (what was its date?) shows the colliery there and it was probably not too much different to the pic below. We need to find out some information about the church if possible.
index.php

existing forum pic from https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/hamstead-colliery.38988/page-3#post-580360
 
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In 1901 the Church has gone!


oldMohawk said:
The school was in Spouthouse Lane which approaches Hamstead Road at the wrong angle compared to the view in the Cottage Pic. In 2016 I uploaded a pic of the school and a map in the Hamstead Colliery thread. The map in post#131 (what was its date?) shows the colliery there and it was probably not too much different to the pic below. We need to find out some information about the church if possible.
index.php

existing forum pic from https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/hamstead-colliery.38988/page-3#post-580360
Click to expand...

Yes, back to the drawing board. Wonder what happened to the Church?
 
just an aside...i was married at st pauls church...well i think its the st pauls showing on the map

lyn
 
8E0898FF-99A7-4932-89C2-23B0CD79379C.jpeg Of interest in this attempt is that, on the 1880 odd map just south of the School, is the railway line. If you follow the line a little further to the right you come to Great Barr Station.
 
I'm a bit confused - are we suggesting our "cottage" is the building marked school?
What date is the map in #131?
 
The new Church of St. Paul was consecrated in 1892, to replace a structure that had decayed and was not fit for use,with the increased population due to Hamstead Colliery.
 
pjmburns said:
I'm a bit confused - are we suggesting our "cottage" is the building marked school?
Click to expand...

As this is proving difficult to solve several lines of enquiry have been looked at. One is that the girls may be outside cottages that were being used as a school, or a Sunday School.
 
If the map in #131 is dated 1886 then I think I know where the church went!! The current St Pauls Hamstead (near the junction of the Old Walsall Road and the A34 Walsall Road) was built in 1891/2. Prior to that date it was a mission church built in 1865 but I can't find an address for it. Yet!
 
Old Mohawk
The map in # 131 is an OS map labelled 1885 (though probably better put as c 1885)
The map labelled as "1880 odd" is later than that as Hamstead station opened in 1837 on the west of the bridge. It was renamed Great Barr station in 1875, and moved to the site on this map in 1899 (and renamed Hamstead in 1974)

The Church
According to "Victorian Hamstead", by Rodger Meachem, the old church on the early map was a
"tin church", which was probably why it had fallen into disrepair .
The same book states that the "Institute" on Newton road junction (though he names Hamstead lane as Tanhouse lane ) was originally an old house, but thia seems to be contardicted by gthe maps
 
In earlier times in the thread when I was very optimistic that we would find the location I uploaded a map in post#11 which fits the road layout but it lacks a church and I mistook a tree for a building ... :) and wondered about telephone poles ... but in recent maps of the Hamstead area I see a church (probably tin) on some maps but gone on others but now explained ... and we wander on ... :D
 
This has been such a fascinating tread.

Just thinking out loud here. We know that some photos can and have been mislabelled, and some historic documents don't always tell the truth. I also know that maps do have errors, some because it was an easy way to fill the gaps, others just plan old mistakes or just not being up to date. But some mapmakers introduced errors to prevent copyright breaches: In a nutshell, if you put a feature on a map that is incorrect, and this feature appears on a rival company maps, you know its not their original work.

What I am saying is do just rely on one source of information to prove or disprove your research.
 
phil some time back i did think about the hamstead area which it could well be...we just need substantial evidence...anyhow this is all your fault :D great thread though:)
 
I have looked at Hamstead pic, with no success Lyn. It is a pity the lady who once lived in Hamstead - Judy, I believe - has not been in here lately.
One other thing which has crossed my mind (ignoring information on maps) is what was considered to be Great Barr about the time of the photograph.
 
hi alan...the only member i know whos name is judy is user name jayell...she used to live in soho house when her family ran it as hotel....
 
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