See Birmingham by Post Card

[oldMohawk]

Another view of the Scott Arms junction from the Queslet Rd side. Looks almost rural. The tree on the left looks like it is the tree in the other pic.
Two old buses facing each other - a Midland Red FEDD and a West Brom single decker - wonder whether the crews dropped in for a half pint ?

 

[Lloyd]

Two old buses facing each other - wonder whether the crews dropped in for a half pint ?

I hope not! The vehicles are a Midland Red FEDD (Front Entrance Double Deck) of the mid-30s, and a West Bromwich Corporation Dennis EV (one of five built in 1930, 33-5/9-40 [EA 4371-3, 4727-8]) with bodywork by local coachbuilder WJ Smith.

 

[Rupert]

Stop with the 'old' busses already. I used to ride on them. Great picture.

 

[oldMohawk]

I use to ride on them FEDDs. Loved that big front seat upstairs. Also am I right in thinking that there used to be a cord along the buses so that the conductor could 'ding' the driver to go.

 

[Lloyd]

Yes, Midland Reds had a cord which rang the bell, which as it got painted every time the bus did went 'Clunk!' instead of 'Ding!'

 

[Peter Walker]

Do you remember the bulb horns on the old Ms? They projected out of the cab and made an 'ahoopah' sound. Can't see that on a post card though.
Peter

 

[Phil]

A sort of before and after view of Smithfield Market.

Phil

 

[oldMohawk]

Yes, Midland Reds had a cord which rang the bell, which as it got painted every time the bus did went 'Clunk!' instead of 'Ding!'

Now you mention it I remember the 'clunk' as well as the 'ding'. I also seem to remember the very old buses with the 'bulb horns'. Thought they were old fashioned at the time!

 

[Rupert]

Think I preferred the before than 'after' the after. Always remember the old 'rag market' at the bottom of Jamaika Row...spelling does not look right. My mom used to love rummaging through the old things in there but I used to hate having to go in the place with her. I guess I was a bit of a snob. Would be different now.
Yes, fell asleep on the front bench seat a few times coming back from a fishing trip with my dad. I don't know, there was something cosy about those old Fedds. The transmissions ground a bit by then and they steamed some on Mucklows.

 

[shardeen]

hello all, i used to love going in the rag market ,you could get some great bargins in there. i've still got some records i bought there and part of a tea set.

shardeen

 

[Lloyd]

Do you remember the bulb horns on the old Ms? They projected out of the cab and made an 'ahoopah' sound. Can't see that on a post card though.
Peter

Not bulbs, Peter, Midland Red used hand operated Klaxons like this.

 

[Phil]

One of the oldest photo's of Birmingham I have ever seen depicts New Street 150 years ago. Thats nearly as old as me.

New Street 1858.

Phil

 

[Peter Walker]

That's a cracking photo Phil - must be one of the earliest of Brum in existence. It is a real record of life in those days. And it looks very murky indeed.
Peter

 

[mikejee]

I agree with Peter, its a great photo. Was trying to work out where it might be exactly. Because of the slope down to the right, its obviously the south side shown. The most likely I can find is that the street on the right is Worcester St, as there was a firm in 1858 called Turner Sons and Nephew, silk mercers at 133 new st, next to worcester st. It could be turner and turner above the shop on the right. Only a suggestion though
mike

 

[Rupert]

I wonder where on the street that was. The lane off to the right seems to be going down hill so I presume that would be the south side of the street. I think that the 1890 survey may be too late to show that area. Could it be in the Theater Royal part? One building seems to be being dismantled. There are whispy figures that the camara could not capture due to movement. The horse bus seems to have stopped for a moment to allow it's recording on film. Captivating.
Or perhaps the lane off to the right is Lower Temple Street.

 

[Phil]

It gives me the impression that it may be higher up New Street and the road running down hill to the right might be Ethel Street. The roads further down running off New Street I remember as being less steep.

Phil

 

[Rupert]

This is the corner of Ethel and New Street don't know the date. The picture has been on here before and is not contemporary with the older shot but the bollard sure looks familiar. There seems to be some destruction work being done in the old shot and I wonder if the Collonade Hotel replaced the buildings on the corner. The Collonade is shown on the old 1890 survey so building would have occurred before that...say 1860 -1880 or so. It is still problematical though..I can't see the Theater Royal in the old picture, which was destroyed by fire around then. I don't know what to look for though; there does seem to be a space in the buildings further along New Street at the left side of the picture on post #916 but that seems too far from Ethel Street for the Theater Royal if you go by the 1890 survey map.
That must have been a nice arrangment if you had money. You could come into town and stay at the Collonade...shop in town and see a show at the rebuilt Theater Royal in the evening.. All within easy walking distance.

 

[Peter Walker]

Lovely picture, Rupert. The blank space to the left which you mention was Colonnade Passage, where I was a regular customer at Kanga Model Supplies' shop for over ten years before I left Brum in 1959. As I have mentioned before, I went into their later shop in Burlington Passage about 20 years later, where Mrs McQueen recognised me and we talked about various other customers, fellow-members of the Birmingham Model Railway Club and other groups.
Peter

 

[BazzM]

Morning Stitch. I remember The Rock very well. Spent many a happy hour or two in there. First time Ive seen a good picture of it in ages though. Thanks for that. Barry.

 

[Stitcher]

Hello Barry, glad you liked the piccy.
Trevor.

 

[davidfowler]

Rupert what a great picture!
Is it a horse bus? It looks like a bread basket on the top at the back. Also the inside doesn't look very welcoming with no windows.

 

[Rupert]

Yes David it does look a bit weird, I thought the guy at the back was a conductor but maybe he is a policeman and that is a police wagon. Anyway the pictures have been posted by others and I was just trying to help pull something together to find out where on New Street the older picture is. Like PMC I have the feeling that the location is about Ethel Street. The inclination of both roads and the scene itself seem about right but the Theater Royal can not be identified in the older photo.

 

[Phil]

Rupert

This is the building that replaced the Colonnade Hotel on the corner of Ethel Street. I have to state the obvious WHY? I cant see the bollard on this one. It was too busy by the time this one was taken in 1989.

Phil

 

[BordesleyExile]

General Hospital - nice to see such pride taken in the design of a public building:

 

[Rupert]

Phill, the Collonade looked like a beautiful place and so central to everything. I have no idea when it was de-constructed. Below and in the passage way it must have been something like Burlington Passage with little shops...barber shops and as Peter said model shops...the kind of thing that does not need much space and yet add so much to the human experience. If it was there in my time, I never noticed...pity.

 

[jennyann]

Little bit here about the Colonnade- from Showell's Dictionary of Birmingham

"~Colonnade.~--This very handsome and (for Birmingham) rather
novel-looking building, was opened Jan. 10, 1883, being erected by Mr.
A. Humpage, at a cost of about �70,000, from the designs of Mr. W.H.
Ward. The Colonnade proper runs round the entire building, giving
frontage to a number of shops, the upper portion of the block being
partly occupied by the Midland Conservative Club, and the rest of the
building, with the basement, fitted up as a Temperance Hotel and
"Restaurant."

 

[Lloyd]

Rupert what a great picture!
Is it a horse bus? It looks like a bread basket on the top at the back. Also the inside doesn't look very welcoming with no windows.

Yes, a very early horse bus - five windows in the side (the faded photo isn't very clear) and a door at the back to the saloon from the platform. Almost vertical stairs for men to climb to the top deck (far too unseemly for ladies!) which has two full length back-to-back seats, earning the name of 'Knifeboard' due to the similarity to an olden kitchen utensil. Two, sometimes three horses abreast pulled these carriages, which were quite heavy if a full load was on board. The driver and conductor often wore bowler hats as a 'uniform', and smart-ish ordinary other clothes.
Here's a better picture of a 3-window London example: a cross-section of the body showing inside seats face each other: and a real 'Knifeboard'.

 

[BordesleyExile]

How interesting, Lloyd. Thank you for posting the photo. Any idea of the dates that the knifeboard horse drawn buses were used?

 

[Lloyd]

Any idea of the dates that the knifeboard horse drawn buses were used?

By the turn of the century double seats side by side were the norm, and this style continued into the first motor buses. I'd say 1830s to 1880s for the knifeboards.

The humped inter-deck roof and back-to-back seating was occasionally used later, as in Birmingham's first buses for the inner circle route, which had to be lower than usual to get under Hockley railway bridges. The upper deck seats were slightly angled to each other though, earning the buses the nickname of the 'Pickpocket Specials'!

 

[BordesleyExile]

Thanks, Lloyd. Good to know how the family got around.