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Matilda Mayes
- Thread starter Vixen
- Start date
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- Tags
- #censushelp #gemstreet
Vixen
master brummie
Okay putting this out here even tho Im not sure how any of this fits with what we have linked together but I came across a census for Robert Mays estimated birth year 1806 - st faiths Norfolk who isn't a shoemaker but in the 1861 census we have a family of Snelling living right next door and and edward barret also next door. Also 1851. None of the professions fit but is this just coincidence? Incidentially no sabina or James but wondered if the surname of snelling may have got shortened to snell. Everything we have found so far fits....but weird or what...
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Vixen
master brummie
6th August 1826 William Platfoot was baptised in Yarmouth, the son of John and Elizabeth Easter. As above Elizabeth was the sister of Margaret Preston. So perhaps his dad was the witness to the marriages above?
Date:
Surname: Easter
Child: William Platfoot
Father: John - Sailor
Mother: Elizabeth
Maiden Name: No entry
Wedding bans of William Platfoot - widower took place in August 1805 to Susan Miller and married 5th Aug
Wedding bans of William Platfoot - single took place 1803 to Phoebe Smith married 29th May 1803
Wedding bans of William Platfoot widower took place in June 1810 to Elizabeth Preston - assuming Margarets sister. married 4th June 2010
Ann Elliott and John Phillips witnesses.
MWS
from Bham
Not sure what you mean there. The William Platfoot who was witness to the marriages of Elizabeth, Margaret and Edward Preston was probably their stepfather, their mother's third (at least) husband.
You will also see that one of John and Elizabeth Easter's children was a Susannah Downer Easter. Downer probably intended to be Downing, Elizabeth's (and Margaret's & Edward's) mother's maiden name.
Vixen
master brummie
I got the info off Norfolk family history site. They had records on it. I think there are two william platfoots so assuming one son and the other father. A william platfoot married Elizabeth Preston (presston) in yarmouth.
Also a George Platfoot lives a few doors away from Robert maisey/mayes on the 1851 census
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hi vixen having gone through a load of faffing about yesterday and today to register and get a new card for the archives dept i have made an appointment for the 30th april (this was the earliest date they had) to view the documents that you gave me the reference numbers of for gem st school its like trying to get into fort knox these days 
...lets hope they prove useful
lyn
...lets hope they prove usefullyn
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Vixen
master brummie
Thanks Lynn really appreciate it. I don't know whether it will reveal anything about Eliza and Matilda but it may say when they were put into Gem street, or what became of them when they left etc. I've no idea. Im hoping something may give a clue about Sabina too. I did stumble across a Robert Mays yesterday that lived next door to Edward Barret who was mentioned on a baptism record, and a family of snellings but the issue with that is it doesn't fit with the info we have found so far on this family. I have looked today for edward Molloy, Robert Jefferies and Elizabeth guest and I have found some records but so far cant see a link. All the records so far seem on Eliza's family. I've also been looking for John Maye's marriage to someone called Elizabeth = 1861 census but cant see anything that jumps out at me yet.hi vixen having gone through a load of faffing about yesterday and today to register and get a new card for the archives dept i have made an appointment for the 30th april (this was the earliest date they had) to view the documents that you gave me the reference numbers of for gem st school its like trying to get into fort knox these days
lyn
it will also be interesting to see if the records give the reason why the girls were placed at gem st..looking at all the pages of the 71 matilda age 3 was by far the youngest child at the school so i am am guessing something dramatic must have happened within the family
lyn
Vixen
master brummie
I wonder if Sabina may have died...no idea. I've worked out Willliam, Thomas's brother and going to do an update later. Its still weird why sabina's name was missing off one of the boys baptism records and only thomas's surname entered. Think its John's as havent found a baptism for Robert. I dont get why you would miss a mothers name off. It would be good to know why they were placed there and whether there's any note on what happened especially to Eliza once she left. I got thinking as well, couldn't the children have been returned home or reunited with the parents?
MWS
from Bham
I think you have to accept that record keeping was not as accurate as it could have been and if something is missing or wrong it doesn't mean that there was anything amiss.
It's impossible to know why Eliza and Matilda weren't with family in 1871. However, you have to remember is that the census is just a snapshot of a single day. For all we know they may have been taken in by family, who then found that they couldn't cope. Alternatively family may have found out where they were and took them in the very next day.
If there are records for the Home, hopefully they'll shed some light on events.
It's impossible to know why Eliza and Matilda weren't with family in 1871. However, you have to remember is that the census is just a snapshot of a single day. For all we know they may have been taken in by family, who then found that they couldn't cope. Alternatively family may have found out where they were and took them in the very next day.
If there are records for the Home, hopefully they'll shed some light on events.
Vixen
master brummie
Info on William Maisey - Thomas Mayes brother I've gathered so far.
William Maisey/Mayes brother of Thomas 1837
I believe he died 1893. William was a twinespinner on his records.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...8:9041?ssrc=pt&tid=171140111&pid=332576785895 This record has William Maisey Twinespinner as having died in Yarmouth Workhouse.
William married Mary Ann Mills 1847. Her father was Robert Mills and Mother Mary Ann. Mary Ann Mills is listed on the 1851 census. There are a number of death records for Mary Ann Mayes and the one I think might fit her is 1860 Yarmouth. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...91d9e0&_phsrc=EMS11116&_phstart=successSource However, I’ve nothing other than the area of Norfolk and the age to go on. There’s also a Mary Mayes died 1859 Yarmouth. I only have 1851 census for Mary Ann.
In 1861 he marries Martha Carr formerly Rear.
Cant find 1871 or 1911 census for William.
Whilst looking for Robert Maisey/Mayes, william’s son 1871 census I came across this https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/8904050:7619 A Robert Mayse is with Robert Mills and Mary Ann Mills. I did wonder if this could be Mary Ann Mill’s parents but it has Robert as a Nephew and the profession is also wrong. I know people can change professions and he is down as fisherman but all the other records for Robert has him as a labourer. Also Robert Mills on Mary Ann Mills wedding record was a shoe maker. This Robert is not.
I am starting to wonder if the mayes family were even in the country as most are missing 1871 census. I noticed a James Snell from England going back and forth to Canada. Ive nothing to link him with Sabina.
Mary Ann Maisey 1849 I believe married Henry Rawling/s I believe she died 1934 at Yarmouth workhouse Caister Road, Yarmouth as did her husband in the workhouse infirmary in 1913. Mary Ann was in the workhouse in 1911.
Charlotte Susannah Maisey = willliams daughter married George William Farrow and had 7 children with him. I haven’t located an 1881 census for Charlotte.
1855 • Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
DEATH APR 1933 • 5 Row 143, Great Yarmouth, Norfolk
James Maisy/mayes, Thomas mayes brother. I think he died before 1881 as there is a census that I think is Eliza his wife and George his son. Im not certain its them, but I think it could be. In that census, Eliza is a widower. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...3:7572?ssrc=pt&tid=173992081&pid=152437819061 Only thing is they estimate george’s birth year at around 1854…he was baptised 1852.
This potentially could be james. However, no idea where he was in 1871.
There was a Kerrison down as godparent to one of thomas and sebina's children..from memory. Dont know if Mary Preston is related to Margaret preston???
Mary Preston 1798 – Parents John (shipbuilder) and Ann Kerrison
John Kerrison Preston – parents as above 1797
1799 Elizabeth Kerrison preston – as above
1800 Jacob preston as above
1802 Marianne Kerrison Preston as above
Elizabeth Easter is also down as witness too Margarets marriage.or one of the children's baptisms...Elizabeth preston married John Easter 1815 Yarmouth
So are Margaret, Elizabeth and Mary sisters??? I cant find any birth record for Margaret Preston born in Norfolk nor Robert Maisey born Leith Scotland
Elizabeth preston married John Easter 1815 Yarmouth
William Maisey/Mayes brother of Thomas 1837
I believe he died 1893. William was a twinespinner on his records.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...8:9041?ssrc=pt&tid=171140111&pid=332576785895 This record has William Maisey Twinespinner as having died in Yarmouth Workhouse.
William married Mary Ann Mills 1847. Her father was Robert Mills and Mother Mary Ann. Mary Ann Mills is listed on the 1851 census. There are a number of death records for Mary Ann Mayes and the one I think might fit her is 1860 Yarmouth. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...91d9e0&_phsrc=EMS11116&_phstart=successSource However, I’ve nothing other than the area of Norfolk and the age to go on. There’s also a Mary Mayes died 1859 Yarmouth. I only have 1851 census for Mary Ann.
In 1861 he marries Martha Carr formerly Rear.
Cant find 1871 or 1911 census for William.
Whilst looking for Robert Maisey/Mayes, william’s son 1871 census I came across this https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/8904050:7619 A Robert Mayse is with Robert Mills and Mary Ann Mills. I did wonder if this could be Mary Ann Mill’s parents but it has Robert as a Nephew and the profession is also wrong. I know people can change professions and he is down as fisherman but all the other records for Robert has him as a labourer. Also Robert Mills on Mary Ann Mills wedding record was a shoe maker. This Robert is not.
I am starting to wonder if the mayes family were even in the country as most are missing 1871 census. I noticed a James Snell from England going back and forth to Canada. Ive nothing to link him with Sabina.
Mary Ann Maisey 1849 I believe married Henry Rawling/s I believe she died 1934 at Yarmouth workhouse Caister Road, Yarmouth as did her husband in the workhouse infirmary in 1913. Mary Ann was in the workhouse in 1911.
Charlotte Susannah Maisey = willliams daughter married George William Farrow and had 7 children with him. I haven’t located an 1881 census for Charlotte.
1855 • Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
DEATH APR 1933 • 5 Row 143, Great Yarmouth, Norfolk
James Maisy/mayes, Thomas mayes brother. I think he died before 1881 as there is a census that I think is Eliza his wife and George his son. Im not certain its them, but I think it could be. In that census, Eliza is a widower. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...3:7572?ssrc=pt&tid=173992081&pid=152437819061 Only thing is they estimate george’s birth year at around 1854…he was baptised 1852.
This potentially could be james. However, no idea where he was in 1871.
| Death Age | 52 |
| Birth Date | abt 1822 |
| Death Date | abt 1874 |
| Burial Date | 17 Mar 1874 |
| Burial Place | Forncett St Mary, Norfolk, England |
| OR Name | James Mayes |
| Age | 52 |
| Estimated Birth Year | abt 1822 |
| Registration Quarter | Jan-Feb-Mar |
| Death Registration Place | Depwade, Norfolk, United Kingdom |
| Death Date | Mar 1874 |
| Inferred Death Place | Norfolk, United Kingdom |
There was a Kerrison down as godparent to one of thomas and sebina's children..from memory. Dont know if Mary Preston is related to Margaret preston???
Mary Preston 1798 – Parents John (shipbuilder) and Ann Kerrison
John Kerrison Preston – parents as above 1797
1799 Elizabeth Kerrison preston – as above
1800 Jacob preston as above
1802 Marianne Kerrison Preston as above
Elizabeth Easter is also down as witness too Margarets marriage.or one of the children's baptisms...Elizabeth preston married John Easter 1815 Yarmouth
So are Margaret, Elizabeth and Mary sisters??? I cant find any birth record for Margaret Preston born in Norfolk nor Robert Maisey born Leith Scotland
Elizabeth preston married John Easter 1815 Yarmouth
MWS
from Bham
The obvious answer for Robert Mayse being listed as nephew is that the Robert Mills who he is with is his uncle. There are 15 - 20 years between Robert & Mary Ann but that's nothing out of the ordinary even for the same parents. There were 26 years between the eldest & youngest of my 2 x g grandparents' children.
I think it is possible that James Maisey who died in 1896 is Thomas' brother despite the discrepancy in age. And it also him listed on the 1881 and 1891 census again despite the discrepancies. He is listed in the fish trade on both and married in 1881. So, he either abandoned his family or his wife kicked him out and moved back to Yarmouth.
I think it is possible that James Maisey who died in 1896 is Thomas' brother despite the discrepancy in age. And it also him listed on the 1881 and 1891 census again despite the discrepancies. He is listed in the fish trade on both and married in 1881. So, he either abandoned his family or his wife kicked him out and moved back to Yarmouth.
Vixen
master brummie
Could we relook at parents of margaret and elizabeth preston as I have stumbled across this....apparently Elizabeth preston was a twin with Mary Ann Preston parents Robert Preston and Elizabeth warner. Im not saying this is the elizabeth sister of Margaret but having looked online this elizabeth seems to have married John Easter. I know William and Elizabeth Downing were mentioned as parents of Edward, Elizabeth and Margaret and I did find records for Edward linked to William and Elizabeth downing but cant find any for elizabeth and margaret. I still cant link margaret to either sets of parents
Attachments
MWS
from Bham
The Elizabeth, daughter of Robert & Elizabeth was born In Norwich. Nothing in the census for the original Elizabeth mentions Norwich, she is consistently listed as being born in King's Lynn. The Norwich Elizabeth would probably too old and if it was her it wouldn't explain the names of her the Easter children.
That we haven't came across Margaret's baptism is a shame but there's too much tying to the one we've already mentioned. The baptism may be there lost, damaged, incorrectly listed or just not online yet. You'd probably have to trawl through the original registers for King's Lynn and Great Yarmouth.
For James I can't be certain but as said before not everything on the census is correct, for example the James I mentioned is listed as married on the 1881 census and single on the 1891.
That we haven't came across Margaret's baptism is a shame but there's too much tying to the one we've already mentioned. The baptism may be there lost, damaged, incorrectly listed or just not online yet. You'd probably have to trawl through the original registers for King's Lynn and Great Yarmouth.
For James I can't be certain but as said before not everything on the census is correct, for example the James I mentioned is listed as married on the 1881 census and single on the 1891.
Vixen
master brummie
@MWS thanks for explaining the above. I do have james maisey 1881 in the workhouse but it has him down born in ipswich. The 1881 census for Eliza with george must be incorrect because if the 1881 census for James is correct then she wouldnt be a widow in 1881 and that record I had for Eliza with george said she was. Will try and find another 1881 census.
Vixen
master brummie
The death record forncett st marys is not James. There is an 1871 for James Mayes from that area though it says forncett, st peter, london when forncett st peter is south norfolk. But that james is unmarried. I think it rules out the death record above for our james
this is the 1881 census I had for Eliza and george https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...4:7572?ssrc=pt&tid=171140111&pid=332576781202
this is the 1881 census I had for Eliza and george https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...4:7572?ssrc=pt&tid=171140111&pid=332576781202
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MWS
from Bham
How questions were phrased may have affected the answer given. Also, Eliza may have felt some stigma that her husband was a drunk or after 10 years may have assumed he was dead.
Of course it may be correct and he was dead and the James in Norfolk was someone else. Things are not always straightforward and sometimes it is down to what you choose to accept.
hi vixen...got to view the records today...i could see nothing about the girls in the discharge records but had luck with the admissions..the light in the library is not that good for taking photos so i hope you can read the info..if not just say as i also wrote down all the info as i saw it..as i suspected the girls had a very poor upbringing all very sad but we must remember that their parents most likely had a worse one..anyway hope this helps as it does give the reason why they were taken to gem st...at the top of each page it will say what each column denotes...i find it very sad that children of this age were charged with vagrancy but maybe it was just the way things were put in those days
lyn
lyn
just to confirm this is matilda in 1881 age and place of birth matches and looking at her gem st record above could she have left there and gone to this girls home
| Matilda Mayes | |
| Age | 15 |
|---|---|
| Estimated Birth Year | abt 1866 |
| Relationship to Head | Inmate |
| Gender | Female |
| Where born | Birmingham |
| Civil parish | Kirkdale |
| County/Island | Lancashire |
| Country | England |
| Street Address | Walton Rd Major Lesters Girls Home |
| Occupation | Scholar |
| Registration district | West Derby |
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