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Great Western Railway

norfolk brummie

norfolk brummie

gone but not forgotten
I looked for a thread dedicated to the GWR, but surprisingly could not find one, although there are other ancillary threads about the GWR., i.e stations, lines et-cetera.

I understand that the GWR always built their locomotives, with the steam engine driver to be located on the right side of the footplate, and the fireman on the left. Indeed, the GWR track system was also laid out with a right hand view of all signals, speed signs and other safety restrictions, in mind.

Yet the other 'big three'...L.M.S, L.N.E.R., AND S.R, used the system in reverse. Driver on left, fireman on right. Can anyone tell me why this was, and did it make a great deal of difference, when locomotives, and crews, worked on rivals tracks?

A friend and I left school together, in the forties. My school friend went to work at Tyseley. First as a 'knocker up', then fireman, and finally, steam engine driver, and later a diesel driver. On one occasion, he also worked on the Royall Train, for which he received a small bonus. John Clayton also fired for the legendary Dick Potts at Tyseley. Sadly John passed away a few years ago, although I once asked him whether it made a difference firing from the left or right, and he said that he never had any problems with it. However, on certain routes, away from the old Great Western rail system, he did have to help the driver with signals et-cetera.

I do not think that this subject has been previously discussed, so it would be nice to hear from some old footplate men that may still be around.

Eddie
 
Eddie, the GWR was not alone in the UK of running RHD it was simply that the always did so with their own built locomotives. In the early days of railways many other did so, such as the Cambrian, Midland and early LMS, Others were LBSC, SECR, LSWR and some Southern, austerity and industrials. There are many myths about God's Wonderful Railway. :D
 
Yes perhaps the GWR does require further threads. Unlike others in the big four, much of the track mileage was added before grouping and a standard systems employed at an early date, with Swindon setting may standards, not just for locomotives, but station design, coaching and goods stock and signalling.

The GWR came to the Midlands through acquisition and working agreements. The route from Wolverhampton south was mixed gauge at first. Left hand drive for a british railway makes more sense that right hand especially where there a double tracks, yet as long as the signalling was in place for the driver to see, there would be no issue. However trains did not simply work over company lines. Take for example the joint lines. From Shrewsbury to Hereford, Shrewsbury to Wellington and Shrewsbury to Welshpool, both LNWR and GWR locomotives worked over these tracks.
 
old family .jpg
This old photo has a "definite" GWR connection. Taken around 1920. It shows my great grand parents John and Fanny Williams with their sons and daughter. Three of the sons worked for GWR, my grand father Percy Williams(b1893) in signal dept. Tyseley, his older brother Ernest(b1890) driver based at Tyseley and a younger brother Howard(b1899) who was a plate layer, as was his son David. In 1940's two of my parents neighbours were Tyseley steam engine drivers a Mr Wiggins and a Mr Burton.
 
Birmingham in the early 20th.century was an expanding city acquiring areas formerly outside its boundaries. This expansion, together with that of its newer industries and increasing population, caused to GWR to also expand its operations. Moor Street and its new line to Stratford-upon-Avon served some of these new suburbs. These suburbs, over time, gained new industries and a large population; the GWR hope to take advantage of this.
New carriage and freight facilities plus a new locomotive depot soon filled former green fields at Tyseley.
The public and a great many industrialists soon took advantage of the new trains and the collection and delivery services offered by the railway.
Seem from the late 20th.c and early 21st.c sometimes we forget that our roads were not as clogged with heavy goods delivery vehicles then as they are today. The railway had, in south Birmingham, some very large clients who relied on the railway to bring in their raw materials and distribute their products once finished. Large companies such as Joseph Lucas. MEM, Rover Cars, Girling Brakes, Wilmot Breedon, Bakelite, Crown Bedding (Slumberland), Berry Electrical (Magicoal) and many smaller factories in Hall Green, Shirley and that area - such as Chemico, BSA, Aldis Bros. and many more were reliant on the railway for incoming and outgoing products.
Shops had much of their needs delivered by the railways carters and those who did mail order were able to dispatch customers orders through collection by railway carter. Ladies (and I guess some men) got delivers of items they ordered through the large number of mail order companies then existing. (Amazon isn't something new, it just tries to sell everything ;) )
There is a lot more to Tyseley than I write here, but I am sure the web and books can elaborate. It was of great benefit for the people of Birmingham, passengers or manufacturers, it employed a lot of people and anyone who worked for the GWR will usually tell you what a good company to work for they were.
 
Some would consider GWR means Gone with Regret.

Always individualistic. From signals that drooped, a different track gauge [originally], and so on. They also produced as much as possible "in house". For me the GWR is the very epitome of steam at its best.
 
Well, locomotive 7027 has not been at Tyseley for some while, so don't go looking for it.
It left and has moved around a fair bit, Buckfastleigh (Devon), Crewe Heritage Centre, West Somerset (Williton) and is now planned to go to the Great Central Railway (Loughborough) where its hope to finally restore her to operational condition. There is much said about the change of tender (by P. Waterman) and where some of its part may or may not be. Initially, when rescued from the Barry scrapyard it was considered as a donor engine I believe.
 
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does anyone know how 2 steam locos were connected together? did the lead engine control the rear engine?
 
mw0njm. said:
does anyone know how 2 steam locos were connected together? did the lead engine control the rear engine?
Click to expand...

No, each had its own crew and worked together. There were some whistle codes, but mostly they just knew their job well enough to know what to do. the only time steam engines were operated remotely was when using 'autocoaches', carriages with driving controls used on local and short branch workings. Like this (after a few miutes):
 
Hi Lloyd,

Never having heard of autocoaches, what was the point of them., ie why would you need one when the
locomotive would still need to be fired?

Kind regards
Dave
 
Dave89 said:
Hi Lloyd,

Never having heard of autocoaches, what was the point of them., ie why would you need one when the
locomotive would still need to be fired?

Kind regards
Dave
Click to expand...
When operating on a branch line the time taken to move the engine from one end to the other becomes significant at each end of the journey. The 'autocoach' would allow a 'local' to use a bay (dead-end) platform at a main station and simply to reverse at the end of the branch. The introduction of the diesel multiple unit (DMU) achieves the same function, i.e. the driver just changes end. The same principle is nowadays used on most inter-city trains from HS125 onwards.
 
Autocoaches/ autotrailers were quite common in steam locomotive days. In fact their origins lay in a passenger coach which had a vertical boiler at one end and as such was a combination of locomotive and passenger car. They were known as steam railmotors and often pulled a trailing passenger carriage.
The usual arrangement was one autocoach or two, but heavily used branches, particularly in the Plymouth area did often have four - two either side of the locomotive. The control of the locomotive was from the end of one autocoach -depending on direction of travel. The fireman remained on the locomotive footplate for his part of the job.
This link is about the steam railmotors:

GWR Railmotor, Auto-Coach, Auto-Trains As Steam Multiple-Unit Trains

About GWR railmotors, auto-trains, auto-coaches, auto-trailers and steam powered multiple-unit trains
www.citytransport.info
 
Lloyd said:
No, each had its own crew and worked together. There were some whistle codes, but mostly they just knew their job well enough to know what to do. the only time steam engines were operated remotely was when using 'autocoaches', carriages with driving controls used on local and short branch workings. Like this (after a few miutes):
Click to expand...
thanks for your reply.i I always wondered how.
 
Radiorails said:
Autocoaches/ autotrailers were quite common in steam locomotive days. In fact their origins lay in a passenger coach which had a vertical boiler at one end and as such was a combination of locomotive and passenger car. They were known as steam railmotors and often pulled a trailing passenger carriage.
The usual arrangement was one autocoach or two, but heavily used branches, particularly in the Plymouth area did often have four - two either side of the locomotive. The control of the locomotive was from the end of one autocoach -depending on direction of travel. The fireman remained on the locomotive footplate for his part of the job.
This link is about the steam railmotors:

GWR Railmotor, Auto-Coach, Auto-Trains As Steam Multiple-Unit Trains

About GWR railmotors, auto-trains, auto-coaches, auto-trailers and steam powered multiple-unit trains
www.citytransport.info
Click to expand...
thanks alan.
 
Hi

Many thanks for all the responses .
As they say, you learn something new every day, and I had never
heard of these before.

Kind regards
Dave
 
Just looking at Post 7 it seems they had the same trouble in 1852 as today with HS2.They couldn't get it right then with costing.
 
Spargone said:
When operating on a branch line the time taken to move the engine from one end to the other becomes significant at each end of the journey. The 'autocoach' would allow a 'local' to use a bay (dead-end) platform at a main station and simply to reverse at the end of the branch. The introduction of the diesel multiple unit (DMU) achieves the same function, i.e. the driver just changes end. The same principle is nowadays used on most inter-city trains from HS125 onwards.
Click to expand...

The fireman stayed on the loco, obviously, but the driver needed to be at the front of the train to see the signals and ensure crossings (some were just footpaths) were clear as they approached. The driver could work the steam regulator (often, as in the film with a lot of 'play' in the linkage!), had a brake valve aand could blow the loco whistle from the autocar cab, and had the large bell as a warning as well. Some branches had a loco and one autocoach, but there could be two with the loco in between them if the traffic level warranted it.
 
I was going to outline the Cornishman express train which many here have mentioned in other threads. However this link says a lot so to save duplication I have posted it. I am not sure when the name Cornishman was dropped by BR.
enacademic.com

Cornishman (train)

The Cornishman was a British express passenger train to Penzance in Cornwall. From its inception in the 19th century until before World War II it originated in London. Under British Railways it became a quite different service, starting variously
enacademic.com enacademic.com
Prior to 1952 there had been trains running to the south west, in the late 19th. century they ran to Bristol from Wolverhampton and Birmingham. The broad gauge had made through running further quite difficult. The far western parts of the GWR system were converted to the narrow gauge (now known as standard gauge) in 1892. The Severn Tunnel opened in 1886 which made the route, via Hereford possible. The opening of the new line from Tyseley in 1908 and the doubling and upgrading of the line south of Stratford-upon-Avon made it possible to reach Bristol and the far south west by a shorter route. Since then and before the re-routing via the former Midland line and the Beeching closures, many places in thee south west peninsula were served: north, mid and south Devon stations, plus many towns in the Cornish part of the peninsula.
Locomotives initially were usually 4-4-0's being replaced by the varying versions of 4-6-0's at time and developments progressed.
In the GWR period the trains were often split into two and sometimes three parts depending of the demands, principally Saturdays and holiday times.
It was not unusual for assisting engines (bankers) to be used on the South Devon banks but one close to Birmingham was to be found at Wilmcote. The assisting engine was based at Stratford-upon-Avon. Sometimes heavy freights were banked here as well.
 
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