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William Marle of Alcester Street

M

Max Beran

proper brummie kid
Just wondering if anyone here has encountered William Marle or his brother Robert. In the 1860s they lived at 64 Alcester Street which look like it was on the opposite side of the road from where Rowton House was later built. William attended King Edwards School - I know this from an inscription dated February 1864 on the flyleaf of a book which I discovered in an antique shop. This book about metals and mining was presumably a prize for academic achievement, maybe chosen by himself or the school for its appropriateness to William's interest. At this time William would have been 16 and leaving school. His name then appears on a list of London University examinees in 1868 where he passed at Division1, the highest grade. This was by "Private Study" and taken at St Thomas School in Granville Street which was one of a large network of examination centres used by the University of London for external students. His brother, 9 years William's senior appears not to have passed the exams so William appeared to have been the bright one of the pair. It all seems such an interesting situation given the boy's home background within a solidly manufacturing part of town. There were considerable ructions at the time over issues like the make-up of KES' governors, building and finance with the City flexing its muscles.

I would be very grateful if anyone here could throw any light on this, for example if the Marle's were in business. A 1935 aerial photo suggests a house at that position by he track leading to the back of the Lombard Street Baptist chapel, perhaps slightly larger than others neighbours, but the 1899 OS map plots it as just one of a row. But for all I know Alcester Street may have been renumbered so I'm barking up the wrong tree.
 
hi max i take it you have got william on the 1871 census at 64 alcester street which on an older map is next to a sunday school william is a clerk in an office and undergraduate of london...his brother robert is a school master..as you say there could have been some renumbering hopefully someone can help with that

looks like william marr in 1880 in oxford and died in 1893 in devon...occ was reverend william marle clerk of holy orders...this is according to a family tree on ancestry which may or may not be accurate

lyn
 
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The 1873 Whites directory street section lists 64 Alcester St as Henry Marle, schoolmaster. Next to it is the British School with Henry Marle and Miss A Kempe as teachers.. In the names list Robert & Henry Marle are lisred at no 64 as schoolmasters. In the 1872 and 1876 post Office directory no Marle or the British School or no 64 are listed. But further down the road there is in both cases the Lombard St Baptist School listed. This is not mentioned in Alcester st in the 1873 Whites directory. Strange.. it is not necessarily strange that the names do not appear in the PO directiries, as Whites directories tend to be more comprehensive. . But school differences are a bit more surprising
 
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The 1861 corporation directory lists Robert Marle as: Academy 10 Cambridge st. Residence 26 St Mary's Row. Yet the 1862 corporation directory just lists him as a clerk in Gooch st
 
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One of the original questions was: for example if the Marle's were in business.

I am not sure what Robert snr does for his money:
On the 1851 census it says
1772441772410.png

on 1861 census it says
1772441728382.png

in 1877 on Samuel (another son) marriage
1772441944176.png

in 1878 on Robert jnr's marriage cert
1772441849348.png

In 1880 on William's marriage it simply says "gentleman"
 
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pjmburns said:
A bit of digging reveals a "scripture reader" is a lay minister.
They would take bible classes and run Sunday schools but weren't ordained.
Click to expand...
thanks jan i wondered if thats what it meant and that fits with a sunday school being next door to no 6 alcester street...lets hope max logs back in to read all of the above info
 
Astoness said:
hi max i take it you have got william on the 1871 census at 64 alcester street which on an older map is next to a sunday school william is a clerk in an office and undergraduate of london...his brother robert is a school master..as you say there could have been some renumbering hopefully someone can help with that

looks like william marr in 1880 in oxford and died in 1893 in devon...occ was reverend william marle clerk of holy orders...this is according to a family tree on ancestry which may or may not be accurate

lyn
Click to expand...
Astoness said:
thanks jan i wondered if thats what it meant and that fits with a sunday school being next door to no 6 alcester street...lets hope max logs back in to read all of the above info
Click to expand...
Thanks all for going to this trouble especially as I don't have access to census records, trade directories, or an ancestry website.

Trying to put all your information together, it appears from the 1871 census return that William, at age 23, is still living at home, having left KES at 16 and matriculating at age 20 by external examination in 1868 as an external student of the University of London. It also looks like the main family "business" was in education, lay preaching and agency, but William appears not to have followed that path. So my presumption that anyone living in Alcester Street must have been an artisan of some type was clearly incorrect. As an office clerk William would have had use of his education though perhaps less so of the topic of his book award, not that there would have been any lack of metal-related trades close to home.

I don't know what to make of Astoness' discovery of someone of that name in holy orders. The University of London did not offer a route to becoming a Reverend in that era but Oxford (which did) is mentioned by that Ancestry site for 1880 (a year when our William would have been 32), and then died in Devon (when our William would have been 45). I rather take the view that this refers to a different William Marles.

The proximity of No 64 to a Sunday School does add to the likelihood of this being the location of the family "business" especially as running such was very definitely on the job description of a "Lay Agent" given as Robert Senr's occupation in 1851. Lay Agency is apparently a paid CofE parish role and, who knows, maybe the next door house was thrown in as part of the remuneration. The only point that might be against it is that the Sunday School building does look very much at the back door of the Lombard Street Baptist Chapel so one might also have suspected a connection. The Marles were definitely CofE - William baptised at St Philips according to University of London examination register) and the Governers of KES were not generously disposed to dissenters in that period. Admittedly, rather adding 2 and 2 to make 5.

I've yet to get to grips with your details about other family members, but many thanks for group effort. I've put in a request for information to the KES archivist asking for more on his school career.
 
The William who married in Oxford was aged 32 on the marriage cert. A newspaper marriage announcement states he is "of Balliol College". He appears with wife Alice on1881 and 1891 census records as born in Birmingham. He was "clerk in holy orders" which simply means an ordained C of E minister and is nothing to do with being a clerk.
 
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and to add to janices info above here is williams marr cert to alice...the 1881 census (curate of ewell) and the 1891 census where william and alice have a young son francis spencer howard marle age 3 although he was baptised frederick rather than francis so maybe an error on the 91 census as all other records have him as frederick and he also went into holy orders and he died in 1968 in hants..his probate says the rev frederick spencer howard marle clerk of holy orders...they will enlarge if you click on them and then click on the spy glass to enlarge even more...hope this helps

william marle 1881 census.pngwilliam marle 1891 devon.pngwilliam marle marr cert.png
 
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