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Vine Inn Lichfield Road Aston

Yes - I see what you mean now. This building reminds me of some of old buildings in town which appeared to have had extensions put on in a haphazard way. Fascinating isn't it?
 
Very puzzling Lady P. I still can't work out what's been done over time with the windows on that side.

Three years after the sale of the Vine in post #27, it was up for let in 1869. In this notice it describes the Inn as "an important old licensed Inn and Spirits Vault". I wonder how old this makes the Inn. It suggests to me that it goes quite far back. But then again ........ Viv.

image.jpeg
 
just reading your last snippet viv...i know we cant see much of the yard but it looks too small to me now to house stables unless of course add ons made the yard smaller and where was the bowling green...inside the yard or outside the premises within the pleasure gardens..and where abouts was the gateway entrance to the stables mind you i guess it could have stabled just a couple of horses...so many questions to this one..i would love to find some concrete evidence about the changes to this pub...maybe the library may hold the answers...really need to get a better inside look at the yard area and everytime i visit there is no one around to ask...think i will stick with this a bit longer..hope to get back over that way this week never know i may drop lucky but for now i am calling this my mish mash pub:D

lyn
 
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This is another one of those great discussions, love it. I am now beginning to think that there was a significant alteration done to the windows with the new 1904 alterations. I think that there may have originally been five windows on this side in a layout similar to the Park Street side of the building.

There are signs of problems with the structure on the Sandy Lane side, you can see the ends of the tie bars by the sign. Just maybe they decided to move things around when the alterations were made, as the internal layout may have been altered too.
 
all good points mort..post 6 pic 2 i think must show the boarded up gateway that led to the stables and as shown on post 16 map one on the sandy lane side...would not mind finding a very early photo of this pub

lyn
 
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As Morturn says, a really good discussion. Do you think that the alterations were carried out when travel became easier and there was no longer a need for a coaching inn as such? Perhaps people didn't need bedrooms and they were knocked through to make function rooms? I shall go back to the start of this thread and try to take it all in. May take a while!
 
This clip may be of interest to the Vine, it is from the 1880 Birmingham Daily Post, and shows the changing leisure pursuits. Also the Vine changed hands in 1871 by private treaty, and may have changed the style!



21A40A5F-50B4-42A2-BE00-E49103614127.jpeg
 
This appeared in 1883 in the Post as an answer to Correspondence queries. It may be refering to the Vine, and if so would tie in with the 1871 sale?

357FA394-E710-429B-B1FA-5277F8552777.jpeg
 
Radiorails said:
Pedro, your post 99 refers to London; there was a Cremorne Gardens but it had no victualling connections. Within the Eiki thread mention is made of the name Cremorne and it origins which may, or may, not be connected to the Vine Inn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremorne_Gardens,_London
Click to expand...

Yes, but my point being that the change of recreation in London could be reflected in Birmingham, and the change of owner at the Vine in 1871 may have then altered the future layout and purpose of the Inn.
 
Yes, the change leisure pursuits and usage will have almost certainly contributed to the change in look.
 
Pedrocut, your posts confirm what I was trying to say (only didn't) in that there were a lot of hobbies, groups and activities for working men in the early 1900's needing large rooms. Among other things boxing matches were often held in pubs and training took place there too (although I haven't yet found the Vine mentioned in this connection). Public Houses had to keep up with the times didn't they?
 
Lady Penelope said:
Pedrocut, your posts confirm what I was trying to say (only didn't) in that there were a lot of hobbies, groups and activities for working men in the early 1900's needing large rooms. Among other things boxing matches were often held in pubs and training took place there too (although I haven't yet found the Vine mentioned in this connection). Public Houses had to keep up with the times didn't they?
Click to expand...

My great uncle, Tommy Pardoe was a boxer and he told me how he would box in pubs in and around Birmingham. I think he said Summer Lane was a favourite place for him.
 
It seems that the Vine Cremone Gardens would be an insignificant part if placed within the London place of the same name ans from such a large area some still remains to be visited. From the Wiki I believe the London gardens were open a long time before the much smaller Vine version and therefore, as suggested above, could well have been the influence creating the Birmingham gardens.
I notice no one has commented an the explanation of the name Cremone yet.
 
mike could you confirm that there was only one pub called the vine on lichfield rd aston please...

lyn
 
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/2-to-identify-please.15436/ (see post 15 produced below)
I drew attention to this thread in a previous post which related to pubs with vine in their name.

This is a list, by Phil, who can usually be relied upon where pubs are concerned. ;)
Vine Inn King Edwards Rd.
Vine Lichfield Rd
Vine Inn High St Harbourne.
Vine Inn Summer Lane
Vine Inn Rawlins St.
Vine Carver St.
Vine Inn Bracebridge St.
Vine Alma St
Vine Inn Newtown Row.
Vine Inn Villa St.
Vine Inn Green Lane
 
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thanks mike....will this help us...must remember that the angles of old photos can be very deceiving..if nothing else we now know that there was what looks to be mens urinals on the park st side:D just noticed pedros map on post 105 marks out the urinals ...sorry no date possibly 40s..click once and it should enlarge..vine inn.jpg
 
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Great Lyn, that certainly helps with some of the features. we can see the window arrangement on the Sandy Lane side. As I suspected one extra window was added and joined to the two together on the first floor (above the ladder). The whole of the ground floor windows have since changed.

Lyn re your question about the pleasure garden etc, it wouldn't have been within with the pub walls, it would have been where the houses were built behind the pub - possibly the boundary of the gardens would effectively have been Park Lane and Sandy Lane. .

Viv.
 
and also a little top window added on the park st side viv...i shall message ray griffiths to take a look at this new photo as he lived in sandy lane possibly when this photo was taken...would hate him to miss it...viv i know the pleasure gardens were outside the pubs walls i was just wondering if the bowling green was as well...would imagine so...great thread this
 
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Yes Lyn agree, think the yard behind the pub would be too small for a bowling green. The photo of the pub is a nice find Lyn. Viv.
 
i think its a cracking photo viv i had to take a good look at it before i posted it as the area has changed so much... quite surprised its the only old one to date considering the age and size of the pub...
 
When John Sheldon sold the pub in April 1857 it had a lot going for it. Firstly it was in an expanding area. It had an Assembly Room, 6 (!) bedrooms, stabling for 4 horses as well as carriage houses. Not only did Sheldon have cellars, but he also had a malt room. So was he brewing his own ale too ?

BLimey, this place had a lot going on. Viv.

image.jpeg
From the Birmingham Journal and Commercial Advertiser.
 
I'll drink to that Lyn ! Certainly worth a closer look if you can do it safely. Given the history of the place, it looks well worth preserving. I was wondering if any of the original frontage at ground level remains too, although I'm not too hopeful about that. Viv.
 
viv i would have to ask permission for this one as its obvious that there are people inside it doing work this is why i pop down from time to time hoping to see someone to ask if i can take a better look....will keep you all informed but just in case i do get arrested can you have a whip round for me bail money:D
 
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