I was thinking that if you invested as much energy as you have done on researching the lamp you could perhaps find the cup that was lost!
Just checking. In the same way Lozells Lane became Lozells Road, was today's Hunters Road called Hunters Lane c1800-1900.and as i found out through years of researching the area where i grew up aston villa was an area as shown by this 1834 map...lozells lane was to become lozells road
lyn
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Just checking. In the same way Lozells Lane became Lozells Road, was today's Hunters Road called Hunters Lane c1800-1900.
Thanks for that. The tramway routes make sense now. Cheers. Am still having trouble pinning down when tramways first went down Heathfield Road. They are not on the photo and if we knew when they appeared then it would help us date the photo. Any ideas?yes quite right hunters road used to be called hunters lane but well before 1900..think ive got maps showing hunters lane as early as 1840 maybe even earlier than that..much the same as nursery road off hunters road used to be known as nursery terrace
lyn
Thank you. Will do so. I'm an idiot for not thinking of that myself.sorry i cant help with that but if you ask the question on our trams section you may get a better response as our tram experts may not read this thread if it is of no interest to them..click on link below
The Trams
birminghamhistory.co.uk
Sorry to trouble you again. But I've been told that one of the four founders lived near to Villa Cross in Little Hunters Lane. I can't find that on my map. Was it maybe the very top of Hunters Lane past the junction with Barker Street or was it elsewhere?yes quite right hunters road used to be called hunters lane but well before 1900..think ive got maps showing hunters lane as early as 1840 maybe even earlier than that..much the same as nursery road off hunters road used to be known as nursery terrace
lyn
Sorry to trouble you again. But I've been told that one of the four founders lived near to Villa Cross in Little Hunters Lane. I can't find that on my map. Was it maybe the very top of Hunters Lane past the junction with Barker Street or was it elsewhere?
Since I asked, I found out that the same question had been asked elsewhere and Mikejee gave the same answer as you. All good.i believe little hunters lane ran from barker st to villa road..sure i have a map showing it but cooking now so will look later unless someone else can provide you with a map
lyn
Sorry Myrddin, I didn’t intend to correct, but maybe to flush out one of the many experts here who might like to inform us about nineteenth century road construction methods. I’ve always wondered how they managed to keep the tram tracks clear, what with all the horse-drawn traffic churning up the roads. Sorry drifting off topic. My bad.Thanks for correcting me there, Enel. Of course, I meant simply, macadam. I'll change it.
The licensee's in a various Kelly's Directories:Hi to all following this thread. Much of the searching you all have done has been confirmed by Kieron of www.midlandspubs.co.uk. He emailed me the following:
"In my humble opinion I think around 1890 is not too far off the mark. I think I can see the name of Barker, a grocer at No.231 at this time. I am not sure when Fox & Co. first operated the Villa Cross Inn - they were certainly listed in 1879. They were brewers/wine & spirits merchants. Their interest was eventually acquired by the Holt Brewery Co. which you can see on the later photograph. John Ogden was the licensee in the mid-late 1890s. By the way, Entire is a type of strong ale popular in the 19th century, though some breweries still produced a type of Entire Ale. At the time of your query the gaffer of the Villa Cross was Thomas Hale. The coffee and tea dealer William Graham was also trading on the other corner in the in late 1870s."
All the evidence supplied proves that the first photo posted is the earliest c1890. It was at a time when the Villa Cross Inn was owned by the brewers Fox Co, who were wine and spirits merchants and they were advertising an ale called 'Entire' on the front of the inn. At this time there was no street lamp in front of the Inn. In 1874 the manager was Thomas Hale. The cab stand was there by 1882 (Prof Carl Chinn). Looks like the photo could be some time between 1882-1893.
My attention now must be concentrated on the three street lamps shown at Villa Cross. IF they were there in 1874 then one of them, almost certainly the one on the left at the top of Heathfield road, IS the original Founders Lamp of Aston Villa Football Club.
It occurs to me there may be a line of investigation.
We can search for the year in which gas lamps have been erected at Villa Cross prior to 1874 ( the year of the meeting ) and up to 1894 (when the Inn was a Holt Co property ). If we find a date for the erection of the lamp post in front of the Inn it means we can limit the latest date for the photograph to that year or perhaps one year before. If lamp posts erected before 1874 were not replaced by the dating of the photograph then one of them is the original Founders lamp. (I just don't see four Methodists using the lights of an inn in preference to a street lamp).
Perhaps newspapers reported the erection of street lamps in those days. It might have been a big thing I guess.
Perhaps there are municipal archives that show the details.
If anyone has a different photo of Villa Cross during the Fox Co brewery's time, please post.
Any help very, very gratefully received.