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TULLETT, Thomas

Debbie,

Just been checking IGI records and the following information would seem to tie in with details from the Conveyance document held at West Sussex record office. (I have been in touch with West Sussex records office about this document but they inform me that it is a large document complete with seal and I would need to visit the office to photograph it).

Thomas Mutton married Jane Round 10th May 1722, Rusper, Sussex.
Ephraim Mutton was christened 26th February 1725, Rusper, Sussex.

In the conveyance document a part says, 'Resites will, 28th November 1754, of said Thomas Mutton, devising land hereinafter mentioned to Jane Mutton, his wife (long since dead). It also states that Thomas Mutton was from Rusper. So your thoughts of Rusper and Ephraim being mentioned are correct.

I could find no records on the IGI for Janes death.

I think I may have to revisit Warwick Record Office and see if any of the staff can help with the Thomas Tullett - Charles Tullett document, it's making no sense to me at all.

One last piece of information from IGI records I have found.

Charles Leonard Tullett christened 15th July 1867, Saint Martin. Father Henry Thomas Tullett (his full name for a change) and mother Emily.

Regards

Peter
 
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Hi Peter
My sister found this information about Rusper and the Muttons in Victorial County History and some of the Muttons are hatmakers (like Thomas Tullett!):

"After the mid 19th century Rusper became preeminently a parish for people of means to reside in or retire to. Already by 1845 Orltons on the northern boundary was the seat of a gentleman and in 1851 the farmhouse called Hile and Butts in the village street, later part of Ghyll Manor mentioned above, was occupied by a non-practising barrister. In 1866 three 'private residents' were listed, and by 1874 there were nine. Thereafter the number rose to 16 in 1887, 21 in 1903, and 35 in 1938. Typical was G. C. Knight, who moved from London to Baldhorns Park c. 1865 and became a leading figure in the local government of the parish. The new 'gentry' could also be indigenous: Normans, east of the village, was the seat of the Mutton family, who had been parish tradesmen in the 17th and 18th centuries, but whose risen fortunes enabled William Mutton to be described in 1866 as a gentleman and confectioner of Rusper and Brighton, and Thomas Mutton in 1876 as a hat manufacturer of Rusper and London.

"Normans, which was greatly enlarged in stages between c. 1885 and 1915

"A bodice maker was recorded in 1587 and a tanner in 1591. Between the 17th and early 19th centuries the parish apparently had all the tradesmen usual to a place of its size. One notable family, which produced at least four tradesmen, were the Muttons of Normans, recorded from 1689. Two were a tailor and a cooper; a third, Thomas Mutton (d. 1755) was a butcher, while William Mutton (d. c. 1708), described as a salesman, was evidently a middleman dealing in cloth."

If you need any help deciphering the partnership agreement let me know. Does it give an address for Charles Tullett?

Debbie
 
Hi Debbie,

Thank you for the information, makes interesting reading. If we can confirm a connection with Mutton it must be Thomas Mutton butcher from the details already to hand.

No address that I can make out on partnership agreement for Thomas Tullett or Charles. If you would like to see the document let me know when you are going to Birmingham Cental library to check records and I can bring it along with me and go through it and see if we can make any sense of it.
Maybe two heads will be better than one. Next week busy all week so would have to be in November sometime but let me know what you think would be ok for you.

Peter
 
Hi,
I am new to this forum but should have some useful info. After a bit of research into the Tullett family name I got as far as the record in Warwickshire County offices, linking Thomas with Charles but alas no further.

As a Tullett, my grandfather was Archibald son of Archibald Patrick who I believe was the brother of Frank Wilson.

My name has particular relevance here because I have Thomas as a middle name. It is a tradition to pass it down throught the generation, as I'm sure you have seen.

You mentioned Colin Tullett a few posts back and he is in fact my uncle,(Archibald being the father of Colin, Peter and my father, Michael) so should be able to fill any holes from that side of the family.

You also referenced a picture outside the shop at 170 Alcester Road, Moseley. I don't know off the top of my head who is in the picture but should be able to find out.

I found a picture of Frederick Wilson Tullett from the Worcester Regiment and I was taken aback at the resemblance that I have with him.

I'll stop for now. So much to write, so little patience.

Bye for now.
 
Forgot to mention, there is a hat in the family, exact location unknown, that has been passed down from one of the hatters. I would love to see it, will keep looking.

There's a lot of info in this forum and I am still digesting it but will do my best to help.
 
Hi Osbox,

Archibald Patrick was Frank Wilson Tulletts brother. Frederick Wilson the son of Frank is my Grandfather, he served in the 2nd Battalion Worcestershire Regiment from 1912 until discharged in 1915 due to wounds received in action in Belguim.

Look forward to hearing more from you and hope we can piece some more of the family tree together.

Regards

Peter
 
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.

If you're interested, my dad has a website https://www.miketullett.net/ and if you click on the 'Family business china and glass' link on the left hand side you can see pictures of the old shops going back to the one in aston, 70 high street along with some info.

James
 
Hi James
Those pictures are great! Looking forward to hearing your info on the Tulletts.
Debbie
 
Information I have: Thomas Tullett b1791 had a son Thomas b 1835 (according to 1841 census) who was father to another Thomas (name passed down), William, Archibald, Frank and Albert (1881 census). Now, Archibald was born in Burnley and Frank and Albert born in Manchester.

My question is, do you know why the family left Birmingham for the 'north' and then returned?
 
Hi
I visited the Birmingham records office last week and found Thomas and Harriet's marriage record - they were married by licence (so no banns) on 11 December 1831 in the parish of St Peter & Paul. Thomas was from St Martin's parish, Harriet from St Peter & Paul. Both signed their name and it confirms that Thomas was a widower. Unfortunately the witnesses don't give any clues about their family/parents - witnesses were Robert Roberts and Frederick Roberts. So other than confirming what we knew(!) it doesn't help much.

My assumption has been that Thomas' first marriage was in Crawley, however the second child from the first marriage was born in about 1831 and it's hard to imagine Thomas then took off to Birmingham with two very young children, found Harriet and got married within a very short space of time!

Debbie
 
Hi,
It is interesting that they came from different parishes. St Martins is right beside Moor Street where they were living in 1841.

Do you know where St Peter & Paul is, Aston perhaps, where they got married?

I noticed from IGI that there was about a 15 year age difference between Thomas and Harriett. At least the first three of their children were born in the county starting in 1829, by which time Thomas would have been 38.

Therefore, is it possible that Thomas came to Birmingham after becoming a widower to seek a new life. Subjective, I know.

James
 
Hi James
Yes, St Peter & Paul is 'Aston juxta Birmingham' as described in the IGI records.

I was thinking about it last night and if the Thomas Tullett mentioned in the partnership agreement is our Thomas, then he must have been in Birmingham in 1820, when the agreement was signed, as it describes him as a hatter from Birmingham.

I also did a bit of searching on the internet and came across mention of a Thomas Tullett, hatter, Birmingham, in the Insolvency declarations bit (p404) of the Law Advertiser of 1830, then on page 426 and 429 he's mentioned again (https://snipurl.com/t0ugj). If he was insolvent/bankrupt, he must have started up in business again/worked for someone after this time as the 1851 census lists him as a hatter and he's in an 1855 trade directory under hatmakers.

I've also found a Thomas Tullett in a trade directory for 1818 - hatmaker at St Martin's Lane, Birmingham. https://snipurl.com/t0ulb, so if that's the same one he must have been in Warwickshire then. He may not have been married then, of course, as the first child (that we know of) wasn't born until 1829.

And a listing at https://snipurl.com/t0um3 says Harriet wasn't born in the county - so she could have come from anywhere!

Oh, it's all so frustrating!!

Debbie
 
Hi Debbie and James,

Great photographs of the shops James, any chance of copies of these?
When I went to see your uncle Colin at the shop in Bromsgrove I gave him a copy of the family tree that I had at that time (this was about 3 years back) and also a copy of Archibalds will. Thomas and Harriets third son was Henry Thomas Tullett but it would seem that he was known by his second name Thomas. On the 1861 census you will only find him under Henry Thomas (no Tullett). He was living at 61 Bloomsbury Street, Nechells with his wife Emily and a general servant, Elizabeth Asbury. He was 25 and Emily 24 and was a hatter by profession. Thomas born Biirmingham and Emily Bewdley.

Debbie if you let me have your email I will scan in a page and see how it works out. The original is A3 so will need to do it in two pieces.

Peter
 
Hi Peter,
When you say you want a copy do you want permission to download and print it yourself? I will ask if it's ok but I can't see there being any problems.

Debbie and Peter,
I came across a reference using Google books (register book of marriages volume 14 part 2) to a marriage between Thomas Tullett and Jane Ovey Jan 1 1804. This means he would have been 13, so probably a different Thomas. There are no more details though.

However, when I looked back at one of Debbie's links (the law advertiser) reference is made to Thomas Ovey, Steyning & Sussex and another Thomas Overy Reading, Berks.

Connection?

I'm confused

Cheers

James
 
Typo, the last Overy should have been Ovey.

Just checked IGI and there is a Jane Ovey born 1784 had a brother Thomas Ovey 1788 and their father was Thomas Ovey, mother is Elizabeth.

Again this ties in, two thomas', with the Law advertiser ref bankruptcy.

James
 
Very interesting! Charles & Rhoda's Thomas was born in 1786 I think, so if it's that Thomas he would have been about 19 in 1804, which is more likely. And the link to the Ovey family is interesting too. I guess the next step is to find any children born to this Thomas and Jane and see if they fit with the names we have for our Thomas' children born before he married Harriet.

It's not impossible that there were two Thomas Tulletts, hatters in Birmingham at around the same time, but I'm more inclined to believe the birth dates on the censuses were out by a few years!

Debbie
 
Haven’t been following this thread, but think only the 1818 entry from directories given below have been mentioned. Apologies if others have also.
1815 Tullett Thomas, (late Mobbs) hatter and hosier, Bull' Ring
1818 Tullett Thomas, hat maker, St. Martin's-lane
1823 Tullett Thomas, hat maker, 2, St. Martin's-lane
1829 Tullett Thos. hatter, 2, St. Martin's-lane
1833 Tullet Thomas, hatter, 2, St..Martin s-la
1839 Tullett Edward, hatter, St. Martin's lane
1839 Tullett William, cloth cap maker, 71, Lichfield street
1841 No Tullett in directory
1845 Tulett . Thomas, hatter, 11 St . Martin's lane
1849 Tullelt Ephraim, hair dresser, 3, Up. Mill Lane
1849 Tullett Thomas, hatter, 9, St. Martin's In
mike
 
Thanks for that Mike - very useful. I also have a note that in an 1855 directory there's a T Tullett, hatmaker at 89 Digbeth. And the Ephraim Tullett is possibly Thomas' son by his first marriage, a hairdresser living at Highgate Lane in 1851. His son Alfred was also a hairdresser, living at Vaughton Street in 1881.

Thinking about the Jane Ovey link - the only children we know about were born in 1829 and 1831. There may have been other children who were a lot older, but if not, I'm not sure it makes sense that a couple who married in 1804 would be having their first children 25 years after the marriage.

Debbie
 
Debbie, James & Mike,

Mike ,
Thank you for the directories info on Tulletts, I have found a few of these in the past.

James,
Yes I would like a copy of the photographs if thats possible and you (and your dad) have no objections.

Debbie,
I have not been able to find anything to confirm the births/christenings of Ephraim, Joseph or Henry Thomas but for Albert, Jane Rhoda and George the information is there.
A marriage between Thomas Tullett and Mary Kemp took place in Elsted, Sussex in 1827 (28 June). Will see if I can find any children from Thomas Tullett and Jane Ovey that James has refered to. I have had thoughts that I could have been looking at two Thomas Tulletts in the past (hatters both), that will confuse the issue.

Peter
 
According to IGI there were two Thomas' born within a year of each other, 1834 and 1835. I assume that one is the Thomas b1835 father of Archibald Patrick, Frank Wilson and son of Thomas and Harriett but who is the other? Who were his parents?


James
 
Sorry, think I've just answered my own question.

Thomas was son of William Tullett and Mary and was christened 02 MAY 1836 Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick, England.
Interestingly that was mentioned at the top of page 5 regarding the location of St Peter and Paul.
 
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... and William was Thomas' brother. Using Mandy Willard's spreadsheet it has them both down as having the same parents, Charles and Rhoda.
William was born 1781
Thomas was born 1786.

However, according to the 1841 census Thomas is 50 years old and Harriett is 35, but I remember someone saying that ages could have been rounded. Is that right?

Sunday night.. time to relax...

James
 
theodore said:
Hi Debbie,

My great grandfather Frank Wilson Tullett had 4 other brothers and 1 sister to my knowledge. The sister Emily Jane and a brother Charles Leonard died very young. Two of his other brothers (Archibald and Thomas) went into the Glass and China business. The shop(s) that Archibald started would still be going over 100 years later and I remember as a young boy a shop owned by the Tulletts on the Alcester Road. Archibald and Son was still operating in a small shop in Bromsgrove at the start of this year but sadly has now gone out of business. After over 100 years what a pity.
Click to expand...

Whilst I can throw no light on the original question in this thread, I have a family document, clearly very old, which shows Frank Wilson Tullett was one of 8 children. They were Harry (b1861 d1863), Tom (sic) (b1863), William (b1865), Charles Leonard (b1867), Archibald Patrick (b 1869 and my grandfather), Frank Wilson (b1870), Albert (b1872) and Emily Jane (b1875).

Mike
PS anyone is welcome to lift the shop photographs from my website:)
 
Hi Mike,

Thank you for permission to down load your photographs of the Tullett china and glass shops. Interesting you say Henry Thomas and Emily had 8 children, I made an error on my posting saying Frank had 4 other brothers and 1 sister I should have said 5 brothers but now its 6 (Harry I have yet to find). What document do you have for this information Mike. After Emily died (1881) Henry Thomas remarried in 1885 to Ellen Sable nee Bullock who died in 1895 Henry Thomas passing away 3 years later in 1898.

Regards

Peter
 
theodore said:
Hi Mike,

Thank you for permission to down load your photographs of the Tullett china and glass shops. Interesting you say Henry Thomas and Emily had 8 children, I made an error on my posting saying Frank had 4 other brothers and 1 sister I should have said 5 brothers but now its 6 (Harry I have yet to find). What document do you have for this information Mike. After Emily died (1881) Henry Thomas remarried in 1885 to Ellen Sable nee Bullock who died in 1895 Henry Thomas passing away 3 years later in 1898.

Regards

Peter
Click to expand...

Hi Peter

I'm not at home right now so cannot access the piece of paper. It's falling to pieces and I work from a photo copy of it. When I get home I'll photograph it and send you a copy. It's all in very old handwriting and looks to have been written a very long time ago. I also have the original (copies) of the marriage certificates of Archbald Patrick as well as his father, Henry Thomas, although as you write previously the name "Henry" is missing from the certificate.

Mike
 
Hi Mike,

Thank you Mike, I look forward to seeing this document. I have found a reference to Harry Tullett birth March Q. 1862 Aston but no details for death as yet.

Regards

Peter
 
Hi Debbie, James and Mike,

Can now confirm that the Henry Thomas (surname Thomas) on the 1861 census is indeed Henry Thomas Tullett. I had trouble finding Henry Thomas Tullett on the 1861 census (some years back) and only after entering Emilys' name did I come up with Henry Thomas and checking details I already had I was sure (well 99% sure) this was my great, great grandfather. It would seem that the enumerater on the day took Thomas to be the surname of the family. Proof to confirm my thoughts is on the birth certificate of Harry Tullett that I obtained a copy of today. Born 19th December 1861 61 Bloomsbury Street son of Thomas Tullett, journeyman hatter and Emily Frazier (Emilys' maiden name is spelt many ways, Fraser, Frazer etc). The birth was registered on 11th January 1862. 1861 census Henry and Emily Thomas 61 Bloomsbury Street, Henrys' profession hatter. They also had a general servant living with them.

James to answer your question on the rounding up/down of ages on census returns this was the rule for the very early census years. I think they rounded down the ages of adults over the age of 15 to the nearest 5 years. Children up to 15 years were recorded accurately (how stupid is that).

Regards

Peter
 
Hi,
I've recently been researching the Tullett family. I have a pencil chart of a Tullett family tree, given to my Grandfather Geoffrey Robson by a Tullett family member, possibly Mollie (see below).
Geoffrey Robson's mother was Elizabeth Ryder who was the daughter of William Ryder b: 10/07/1839 and Elizabeth Jane Ovey Tullett b: 1842/1843.
I have the marriage certificate of William Ryder and Elizabeth Jane Ovey Tullett dated 31/07/1880 at the Unitarian Church, Newhall Hill, Birmingham.
Residence at time of marriage she was living at 10 Washington Street, Birmingham.
Her father Edward Tullett b: 1807 is registered as an account collector on the certificate.
Thomas Tullett b: 1786 is Edward's father.

The Tree:
Thomas Tullett b: 1786.
Marries: Jane
Marries: Harriet Smith.
Children: (not sure who are Jane's or Harriet's)
Thomas William, Edward (b: 1807), Jemima, George, Charles, Jane, Ephraim & Joseph.

Following Edward's line.
Marries: Elizabeth Malone.
Children:
Thomas William (b: 1834), Edward, Elizabeth Jane Ovey (b: 1842/1843), Frederick, Ellen, Mary Ann Ovey, George & Henry.
Elizabeth being my GG Grandmother.

Following Elizabeth Jane Ovey (b: 1842/1843)
Marries: John Ryder
Children: Elizabeth (1881-1959)

Elizabeth marries Bernard Robson.
Children: Geoffrey & Charles Alan.

Geoffrey marries Pauline Aveling
Children: Susan & Christopher.

Susan marries David Chester.
Children: Rebecca (me) & Oliver


Also on the Tree
Thomas William (b: 1834)
Marries: Louisa Syms.
Children:
Thomas William (b: 1864), Charles, Louisa, Alfred, George, Edward Albert, Arthur, Clarissa & John.

Louisa marries Alex Sinclair
Children: Irene & Alex Desmond

Alfred marries Alice Knibb.
Children: Marjorie who marries Charles Edward Wooding.

Arthur marries Susan Hamilton.
Children: Arthur, Tony, James, Margaret & Susan.

John marries Violet.
Children: Mollie.

Although I don't have anymore details or facts I hope it may be of some use.

Becca.
 
Hi Rebecca,

Sorry for delay in reply but have only just got my computer back up and working. Your posting looks very interesting and I will check my Tullett tree and get back to you ASP. Do you know when Thomas married Jane?

Regards

Peter
 
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