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Thimble Mill Lane
- Thread starter AussieJo
- Start date
brummy-lad
master brummie
Hi Jo, welcome to the forum, I have checked Kelly's directories of Birmingham around 1883 but there is no mention of a Coffee House in Thimble Mill Lane. What was your ancestor's name, the shop may be down under a different description.
brummy-lad
master brummie
Well spotted Janice, I checked 1882 & 1884 (1883 didn't show up on my search). No. 39 wasn't shown in those years.
Attachments
could someone please post a map showing the position of the coffee house please..thank you..reason i ask is i cant be certain yet but i seem to recall seeing a photo of a coffee house in that area but maybe taken some years after..i will have to search my files
lyn
lyn
MWS
from Bham
Not sure I agree.
If the building on the corner (red arrow) is listed under Long Acre and it is on the later maps it would seem that it would possibly be the next but one building (green arrow). Strangely on the 1891 census it seems to jump from no. 36 to 41 missing the Prince of Wales.
On the 1891 census the last house before the cemetery is no. 58 (blue arrow). There is no no. 52. No. 51 (purple arrow) is the Rolling Mill Tavern and there are 4 back houses (not shown). The building 2 doors down seems to be shown as one houses but I think is 2 (shown as such on later maps). I also think that the 3 houses that lie back at angle are listed on Thimble Mill Lane, no. 42, 41 & 40, you can see a little gateway. There is no no. 44 or 43. So if you count back from no. 58 then it does match though I've made a lot assumptions...
If the building on the corner (red arrow) is listed under Long Acre and it is on the later maps it would seem that it would possibly be the next but one building (green arrow). Strangely on the 1891 census it seems to jump from no. 36 to 41 missing the Prince of Wales.
On the 1891 census the last house before the cemetery is no. 58 (blue arrow). There is no no. 52. No. 51 (purple arrow) is the Rolling Mill Tavern and there are 4 back houses (not shown). The building 2 doors down seems to be shown as one houses but I think is 2 (shown as such on later maps). I also think that the 3 houses that lie back at angle are listed on Thimble Mill Lane, no. 42, 41 & 40, you can see a little gateway. There is no no. 44 or 43. So if you count back from no. 58 then it does match though I've made a lot assumptions...
MWS
from Bham
Already doubting myself. I now think only 2 of the houses at an angle are listed on Thimble Mill Lane (41 & 42). Then it jumps to no. 45, which matches the 1891 census. Which leaves 3 numbers between the last 'angled house' and the Prince of Wales, so I'd say it's either the green arrow (if there's no no. 40) or the one next to it, with the corner building either being no. 38 or listed on Long Acre.
On consideration all those possibilities seem reasonable on the evidence available prior to Janice's discovery. I appreciate this, as was thinking we would never know, but did later do some more investigations It seems the renumbering was between 1921 and 1922, I would have thought it would be earlier, but Kellys shows consecutive numbering up till 1921. However the electoral rolls do show that in 1922 no 226 was occupied by Louisa Aplin, whereas in 1912 she was at number 42. Similarly in 1922 the Robert and Lucy Whittaker were at 228, whereas in 1912 they were at no 41. The map can be shown as below, with pre 1921 numbers in red. At the time all the frontage of the corner building was counted as Thimble mill Lane, but it covered a length of two normal frontages, so would be 39 and 40. But usually businesses just named (and often still do) the business by one number, usually the first.
Wow! Thank you so much. I am heading over to the UK next year, so I just starting to look up old addresses. I had no idea you could help as much as this. Margaret Walker (nee Cranmer) is my 2nd great grandmother. She and Thomas had 8 children. After he died, various relatives took in the children, and some of the children (with the relatives), and Margaret and her second husband, Thomas Clarke, made their way to Queensland, Australia, in 1886. The marriage record above is correct. Can I also ask, would the Coffee House also rented out rooms, or is it more likely the workplace of Margaret and Peter? Thank you agian to everyone for your help. Cheers Jo
hi jo here are a few photo of thimble mill lane...all gone now of course but gives you an idea of how it once looked..thimble mill lane still exists but looking very different now...click on link below for todays street view..
do you know if margaret cranmer born 1844 was born in birmingham ? reason i ask is im am struggling to trace margaret back from when she was in birmingham...also do you know for certain her first husband was peter walker ? i will wait for you to reply before posting again
lyn
![Nechells Thimble-Mill-Lane-Nechells-1966-[1].jpg](https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/data/attachments/117/117554-4432e9c209f699f08cd72f45d2c69704.jpg?hash=3qTRbeNCYZ "Nechells Thimble-Mill-Lane-Nechells-1966-[1].jpg")
![Nechells Thimblemill Lane The Dispensary.[1].jpg](https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/data/attachments/117/117555-5864924a37faa8b22b1b547b0ca4a57b.jpg?hash=mXi-GJ89j0 "Nechells Thimblemill Lane The Dispensary.[1].jpg")
do you know if margaret cranmer born 1844 was born in birmingham ? reason i ask is im am struggling to trace margaret back from when she was in birmingham...also do you know for certain her first husband was peter walker ? i will wait for you to reply before posting again
lyn
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Thanks for the photos. I love seeing the historical views of these places. We're fairly certain that Margaret was born in Scotland about 1837, but I haven't found any record so far. She married Thomas Walker in 1859 in Chorlton- upon - Medlock in Lancashire and census forms seem to have her there until Thomas dies in 1875. It has always been a puzzle to us that when she remarried and emigrated, she didn't bring any of her own children with her. The children that did emigrate, either came on their own or with aunts and uncles.
thanks for the info jo...i am sure some of our members will try and help you confirm things..however her age of 39 on the marr cert to thomas clarke puts her born about 1844 not 1837...we get used to ages being 2 or 3 years out its not unusual but this is a gap of 7 years but again may mean nothing..i wonder if they could not afford the passage fare to bring all of the children with them
lyn
lyn
MWS
from Bham
I see from the 1881 census that 2 of Margaret's children are with her sister (Sarah) and husband. Also there is her (and Margaret's) mother, Mary. It gives Sarah and her mother's birthplace as Scotland. However further searching would appear to suggest that they were both born in Ireland.
In 1841 Mary and 7 children are in Gorbals, Glasgow. The 5 older children are listed as being born in Ireland and the 2 youngest (Thomas, 7 and Margaret, 4) in Scotland but not Glasgow. This ties in with the 1851 census.
In 1841 Mary and 7 children are in Gorbals, Glasgow. The 5 older children are listed as being born in Ireland and the 2 youngest (Thomas, 7 and Margaret, 4) in Scotland but not Glasgow. This ties in with the 1851 census.
MWS
from Bham
A couple of observations (which may already be known).
One of Margaret's brothers, Hedley, is listed as being born in Belfast.
One of Margaret's sons was John Brimer Walker. Brimer could be a reference to an ancestor of Thomas or Margaret (mother, grandmother etc). However it's almost certainly refers to Margaret's family (maybe even her mother) as when her sister marries she does so as Mary Brimer. Father is listed as John Cranmer. so not certain what the discrepancy implies.
This sister is living at 367 Long Acre in 1881.
One of Margaret's brothers, Hedley, is listed as being born in Belfast.
One of Margaret's sons was John Brimer Walker. Brimer could be a reference to an ancestor of Thomas or Margaret (mother, grandmother etc). However it's almost certainly refers to Margaret's family (maybe even her mother) as when her sister marries she does so as Mary Brimer. Father is listed as John Cranmer. so not certain what the discrepancy implies.
This sister is living at 367 Long Acre in 1881.
i did think this could be her on the 81 mark but cant be certain as its scottish census it does not say if she is marr..single or widow..says born rutherglen glasgow..just says she is a servant
| Margaret Walker | 31 |
| Thomas Walker | 12 |
| Isabella Henry Walker | 7 |
| Margaret Park Walker | 7 Months |
| Margaret Walker | 43 |
[td]
Head
[/td][td]
Wife
[/td][td]
Son
[/td][td]
Daughter
[/td][td]
Daughter
[/td][td]
Servant
[/td]I don't think this is her. My Margaret Cranmer married Thomas Walker in 1859ln Chorlton, Lancashire. I think the first 5 children of Mary (nee Johnson) and John Cranmer were born in Ireland and the last 2 in Scotland. The 1841 Scotland Census has them residing in the Gorbals. The 1861 England census has Margaret and Thomas in Lancashire. I have yet to try and trace more of the irish records to see if I can find out any more. I did read an article mentioning Cranmers (possibly related to mine) that explained that the calicl prining work that they did meant the people travelled frequently between Ireland, Scotland and northern England chasing work. I have been lucky in that Margaret named her children with various family middle names, so tracing them is a bit easier. I looked up immigration records and Margaret and Thomas Clarke came out on assisted passages . Unfortunately Maragret died about 15 months after she arrived in Brisbane. Sarah, her daughter, stated on the death certificate that Margaret was born in Perth, Scotland. After her husband, Thomas, dies, 2 of her sons, John and William went to live with her sister, Sarah, and 4 of the girls, Mary Alice, Margaret, Annie, and Minnie lived together, and Sarah lived with Mary Anne Chatfield (nee Cranmer).
I haven't seen an 1851 census; is that an English or Scottish one?
Again, many thanks for all this extra information. I love disappearing down the rabbithole of family history, and my husband is laughing that I have found another source of info! Cheers Jo
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yes jo long acre near thimblemill lane..yes i know margaret marr thomas in 1859 but didnt he die in 1875?
dont know why but when i copied that 1881 census it missed out some info so i am typing it...the only reason i thought it may have been your margaret walker on it was because she is the correct age and does not seem to have a husband here it is..
1881
address 224 baltic st glasgow
head...andrew walker 36 occupation grocer
wife margaret walker 31
son thomas walker 12
daughter isabella walker 7
daughter margaret walker 7 months
margaret walker 43 servant born rutherglen
dont know why but when i copied that 1881 census it missed out some info so i am typing it...the only reason i thought it may have been your margaret walker on it was because she is the correct age and does not seem to have a husband here it is..
1881
address 224 baltic st glasgow
head...andrew walker 36 occupation grocer
wife margaret walker 31
son thomas walker 12
daughter isabella walker 7
daughter margaret walker 7 months
margaret walker 43 servant born rutherglen
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