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The Spitfire

  • Thread starter Thread starter O.C.
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Hi Hast1066: As John has said I would definitely take your treasures re Castle Bromwich- Spitfires, etc. to a specialist in such things and have it valued overall. The connections with Alex Henshaw alone are even more
important now he is no longer alive. Perhaps someone from the RAF Association may be able to help. Here is a link...[FONT=arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]https://www.wlu.ca/lcmsds/cmh/back%20issues/CMH/volume%202/issue%201/Probert%20-%20The%20Royal%20Air%20Force%20Historical%20Society.pdf.

This site is the RAF Historical Society site.

Meanwhile, please post some of the stories re the Spitfires at Castle Bromwich.
Christopher John, a researcher in War Memorial has a good site about Castle Bromwich
at https://www.hellfire-corner.demon.co.uk/castlebrom.htm
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Hi all,

enjoyed reading your posts about the Castle Bromwich factory. Would be particularly interested in hearing about the other places nearby where parts were made for Spitfire production.

By the way, the second and fourth pics on this thread are actually Hurricanes.
 
Not exactly nearby, otis, but there is a fragment of information here about Spitfire component manufacture in Wellington/Hadley, Shropshire.

Chris
 
A.V.Roe had a factory making Lancaster Bombers at Bickenhill near Elmdon Airport, now greatly improved named Birmingham International Airport, many Spitfire parts were made in the factories around Birmingham because when a workshop was put out of action through the Blitz the M.O.D had reserve workshops on standby'
 
Thanks guys. Was not expecting replies that quick. :)

ChrisM, that site in Hadley caused a huge burst of web surfing from me, thanks. The Sankey factory there claimed to have produced whole Spitfires. That was news to me.

Thanks for the info.
 
I always thought that it was fuselages only, otis, although even those would have been significant assemblies. Allan Frost, whose father Leslie was the subject of the linked page and whose contact details are given there, might be able to give you first hand knowledge. I think that he was taken to see some of the production as a young boy, but I might be misremembering..

Chris
 
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The Lancaster bomber factory at Bickenhill Lane, Elmdon became the Metro-Cammell bus building works after the war, I can remember seeing the remains of a very wide bridge which used to span the Birmingham - Coventry rail line there joining the works to Elmdon's runways.
The Sankey factory at Hadley, Wellington near Shrewsbury had originally been G.F. Milnes 'Castle Car Works', producing tramcars for all over the world.
 
Hello Cromwell

According to Alex Henshaw ten employees were killed in raids on the Castle Bromwich aircraft factory. Full details of the following eight casualties have been supplied by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission:

Five men and one woman were killed on 13th August 1940.
One woman was injured 13th August and died 17th August 1940 at Selly Oak Hospital.
One man was injured 13th August and died 21st August 1940 at Erdington House War Hospital.

City of Birmingham Cemetery records show that a ninth man was injured on 13th August 1940 and died on the 14th August 1940 at the General Hospital.

The tenth person has not yet been identified.

In Alex's book, 'Sigh for a Merlin' he records having personally tested over 3,000 planes, included in this are a number of Lancaster bombers. The rest of the output was tested by his team of Test Pilots. He was the only non RAF (civilian) Test Pilot.
 
Although i like the monument on the island does any one else think there should be something a bit more deserving to the memory of castlebroms hard work and service into producing so many of these wonderful war planes,

I for one would love to see a fully detailed replica built to commerate its unique appearance.

This should be mounted high above the factory (away from vandals) in an attack flight mode may be even two of them how great would that look?

I want to start a campaign to raise funds to commision such a build, and have it mounted high above search lights from below, any ideas?? or advice.

This would be such a fitting tribute to its looks, unlike the skeleton like one we have now
 
BUSTABOO said:
Although i like the monument on the island does any one else think there should be something a bit more deserving to the memory of castlebroms hard work and service into producing so many of these wonderful war planes,

I for one would love to see a fully detailed replica built to commerate its unique appearance.

This should be mounted high above the factory (away from vandals) in an attack flight mode may be even two of them how great would that look?

I want to start a campaign to raise funds to commision such a build, and have it mounted high above search lights from below, any ideas?? or advice.

This would be such a fitting tribute to its looks, unlike the skeleton like one we have now
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I totally agree with you but I do like that sculpture on the Island,the sense of movement is fantastic, much better then them silly wing shapes on the Vale:(I thought they were surf boards for years:D
 
That island memorial looks very cheap and in no proportion to the price paid by those that built and flew these planes, saving our country and all our necks.
 
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Cadeau said:
That island memorial looks very cheap and in no proportion to the price paid by those that built and flew these planes, saving our country and all our necks
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Oh well, everyone to their own I say
 
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The sad thing about it all is that today very few people (including many who live there) do not realise the history of Castle Vale, the former Castle Bromwich Aerodrome and RAF station. I notice though that the Drome cafe is still there on Kingsbury Road.
I was taken to at least one airshow at the airfield in the 50s.
 
I still have a box made with the plywood from a Hurricane plane, the chap that made it worked on them at the Co-op, where they used to make pianos before the war.
 
I remember playing on the aerodrome as a kid when it was disused.:)
Have you heard the story about about Spitfire engines and parts packed in grease buried there, I'm sure they would have been dug up while building the Vale,if they were there.
 
Frothblower said:
I remember playing on the aerodrome as a kid when it was disused.:)
Have you heard the story about about Spitfire engines and parts packed in grease buried there, I'm sure they would have been dug up while building the Vale,if they were there.
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Yes forthblower i have also heard so many stories about what supposed to be burrried there especially under the betterware building, extending to complete spitfires in parts, funny on ebay a few weeks ago i came across a brand new never fired up merlin spitfire engine complete with brown grease proof paper on an original packing case, £40k was the starting bid mmmmmm wheres that come from after all these years, my dream would be to open a spitfire museum close to the original factory complete with anderson shelter and sand bags, selling models books photos and anything spitfires, oh and ill build my own replica outside,lol so if theres any eccentric millionaire spitfire fanatics would like a chat please call me, and yes i am serious, the people should never be allowed to forget, places like this are everywhere inn belgum and france.
 
As far as I'm aware no 'complete' Merlins or 'complete' Spitfires were ever dug up from the former site of Castle Bromwich aerodrome, but certainly parts of same were.

For the record, if anyone's looking for a complete Merlin engine, un-run and brand-new, then go to the USA where at one time there were hundreds on open sale, courtesy of the selling-off of the old Packard works in Detroit that manufactured them in huge numbers during the War.

I also happen to think that the memorial at 'Spitfire Island' is far from being cheap and nasty - in fact, to my mind it's rather impressive.

Bugaboo - your post is difficult to understand, but I'd like to know what you mean by "places like this are everywhere inn (sic) Belgium and France"?

Big Gee
 
Big Gee said:
I also happen to think that the memorial at 'Spitfire Island' is far from being cheap and nasty - in fact, to my mind it's rather impressive.
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I for one never said that 'Spitfire Island' was nasty, all I said was that it was 'cheap' and in no proportion to the price paid by those workers at CB who put their lives on the line everyday working there in wartime conditions and those that lost their lives flying them to save a whole nations skin. The memorial as it stands is impressive, but why did it take half centaury before these people and CB were honoured with a monument?
 
At least there is a memorial, better than none at all it would be nice if one was built on or near to the BSA former factory. i fear that it would never get there tho, its only down to sites like this and the people that contribute that history is kept alive, good luck with the spitfire museum.......a really good idea.
 
hi i dont think any body here has suggested its "cheap n nasty" its just my opinion that id like to see something a bit more lifelike around that area, to me unless you know anything about the history of the site (cb) and its connection to the spitfire, then the memorial looks a bit too contempary, can you imagine the effect of what i have mentioned ie a life size replica, to me that would stop me in my tracks, and im sure the youth would start to ask questions about the meaning of it, i live two minutes away from the place, and the amount of people in the area who have no idea how impotant the place was, is shocking, does that not lead to forgeting the past, i think so. what i refer to about belgium and france, two of the places i visit regulary is that there are very fitting memorials every where kept in fantastic condition, simple but fitting and relevent, with loads of details. bring on the museum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSTABOO
hi i dont think any body here has suggested its "cheap n nasty"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gee
I also happen to think that the memorial at 'SpitfireIsland' is far from being cheap and nasty


Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSTABOO
then the memorial looks a bit too contempary, can you imagine the effect of what i have mentioned ie a life size replica, to me that would stop me in my tracks, and im sure the youth would start to ask questions about the meaning of it


BB, that's exactly right, not only too contemporary but looks like a cardboard cut-out and would have looked fantastic if they had used full size replicas. Just imagine say The Statue of Liberty done in the same way, flat and not in 3D, or a cardboard cut-out EiffelTower? A monument to the Spitfire, those that helped build and fly it from CB, should be on a par to these other world famous monuments making Brum a sight worth seeing giving Brummies something to be proud of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSTABOO
the amount of people in the area who have no idea how important the place was, is shocking, does that not lead to forgeting the past, i think so.


Sorry to say that this seems very typical to the attitude found in Birmingham today, what has happened to our pride in our city and it's fantastic illustrious past?
 
Personally i think this has been the problem now for a number of years, we have no identity. by that i mean if we dont know our past then how can we have a future?, we are not allowed to have a pride anymore in where we have come from and what we have acheived. it's not politically correct to ''glorify'' what happened all those years ago and take pride in what our relatives did. to all those people who thinks we should forget and let things lie..........our relatives had no choice at all they HAD to make planes and guns etc, i ask what would happen now if we again were threatened ??? This tiny island stood firm (yes with help from our commonwealth) against a mighty threat, we should never forget and always celebrate what our families did. Sorry folks but it makes my blood boil sometimes when i think how short memories are for those who make all those ''important'' decisions.
 
I agree with most of what has been discussed and yes it is sad. But lets be posative we have a site like this where things are discussed and brought into the open. At least we have a reminder on the island with the sculpture. I remember being horrified when travelling to Castle Brom and my youngest son said whats that for! Well the rest of the journey was a great conversation with our two sons about why it was there. What I mean is sometimes its difficult to draw in the younger generation as they don't think they are interested, it's the way we approach a subject to keep them interested. If they only remember some of what has been said they will remember and maybe tell their children.
 
I know that what I'm about to say won't cut much ice with many of the posters to this thread, but I agree with Wendy who says, quite rightly, that with the Spitfire Memorial we do at least have a reminder of what went on in these islands 60+ years ago. The fact is, we Brits do have a long history of getting on with the job, completing it, and moving on. Yes, Spitfires were built in volume at Castel Bromwich, as were Stirlings and Lancasters at Longbridge, Typhoons at Gloucester, and countless other aircraft and armaments elsewhere in this country. There are memorials to all these efforts, and an excellent one close to Brum is the RAF Museum at Cosford. I happen to know Germany pretty well, through working there for many years, and I can't recall seeing memorials to aircraft production at the various places that produced vast numbers of planes for the Luftwaffe. Neither do I think that there is a memorial in Middlemore Road, Handsworth, commemorating the large numbers of Handly-Page bomber components produced there during the First World War. The true memorials of what 'we' did in the First and Second World Wars are the memorials in churches and on village-greens commemorating those that fell in those conflicts. And perhaps the best 'memorial' of all is ordinary human memory.

Two of the most decisive battles in British history are Bosworth and Naseby - Bosworth has a very impressive Visitors Centre (and so it should have) whilst Naseby has a couple of small brass plaques. But does this mean that the impact of either of those battles is lessened or magnified by the type of memorial placed there? I don't think so. Those battles happened, they both had an impact upon the history of this country, as did the First and Second World Wars, and I don't think that the impact of the latter two conflicts upon our folk-memory and our way of life in 2008 are going to be affected one way or the other by building a super-memorial to a factory that happened to manufacture armaments.

Wendy says that it's difficult to get young people interested in our recent history, and I agree with that, but the fact remains that, for very many reasons, we don't need tanglible, impressive memorials to our history - we need education.

I'm off my soapbox now.

Big Gee
 
Agreed big gee but we only remember what were taught,or can be bothered to go and find out ,but the first step of that is something to catch the imagination, or start the questions burning, and im sorry but that sculpture dont do that for me, and although i keep hearing about it the limelight has been stolen from the sculpture because all most people say about it is "did you know that was summat to do with tolken bloke" thats not acceptable thats another story, the sculpture should be for one reason only The spitfire and that only, stop all this what is it what are they questions as people drive by. we all have a duty to pass the history on, and we should never forget the hard work and determination of the birmingham people that put these birds together under constant threat and pressure. yes the well to do folk of the modern want you to forget it, but me a simple man from a simple hard working background does not want to, therefore its up to us to pressure the powers that be to give us what we want and deserve, and out of respect for those who worked there and there familys and to all those who flew them it should really stand out and hit you in your face as you drive past, i mean the BQ sign is as big as the sculpture.
maybe i just a bit too passionate, and im fed up of being palmed off with sculptures monuments that are just put there for the sake of it, by people who dont really care.:cry:
 
The Spitfire is a British icon known throughout the whole world and most were built and flown out of CB. This was not just any old component plant!:headhit:
 
I love our history I really do, we should be proud off it, but shouldn't we be looking forward to the future and try and get this once proud nation back on it's feet, which as been sold down the river by this Government and previous Governments since the second world war.
Once again, I love our history, but will it give my grandchildren work in the future, I don't think so.
 
We have a wonderful saying here in Flanders, "Geen heden zonder verleden", translated means "There can never be a tomorrow without a yesterday".

Graham.
 
Cadeau said:
We have a wonderful saying here in Flanders, "Geen heden zonder verleden", translated means "There can never be a tomorrow without a yesterday".

Graham.
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I agree but we must move on, we cannot live in the past.
We have a saying here in Brum "Lets agree to disagree"
It a Spitfire Thread, lets talk about them.:)
 
looking through my photos and i found these photos of a spitfire on a car park in town they were taken in the 90s and it was made at castle bromwich the tornado looked about four times the size
 
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