Riley's of Livery Street

[Napalil]

Livery Street

I am researching ancestors in Birmingham. Up until 1848 they lived on Livery Street. Could you possibly tell me the nearest parishes? I am desperately trying to find some way to find them. I use Ancestry.com and couldn't locate an exact match so hired a researcher who isn't have much luck either.:cry:

I can't find a birth or death certificate on William Riley who married Ann Cole. (I have a researcher working on this as I am in the USA - but we can't find an exact match for William Riley born 1794. Supposedly he died in 1849. So far we've gotten the death certificates on several Rileys around that time period but none we can say are definately him) The William we are looking for was once a steel toy maker and he and his family lived on Livery Street. His wife, Ann died of pneumonia on 5 April 1846, and together they had the following children: William 25 May 1824; Benjamin 24 May 1826, Sarah 1827, Mary Ann 27 April 1831 and Frederick 4 Oct 1836.

As you can see I am desperate by posting this in the hopes of someone matching up one Riley to the Riley I am looking for. Any help is very much appreciated.
Best regards,
Lillian (Williams) Palko
Napa CA USA

 

[Alf]

Riley

Welcome Lillian
I have a one Mary Ann Riley Born 1831/Buried 19/2/1915 Orgen Weber Utah
Then I found this:
Family Group Record
Husband's Name

William RILEY (AFN:347X-QQ)
Born: 3 Apr 1794

Place: Birmingham, Warwck, Engl

Died: 6 Apr 1849

Married:
Wife's Name
Ann COLE (AFN:347X-RW)

Born: 11 May 1802

Place: Birmingham, Warwick, England Christened: 23 May 1803

Died: 5 Apr 1846

Married
Father:
Richard COLE (AFN:4X75-7N)
Mother:
Elizabeth (AFN:4X75-8T)
Children:
1. Sex Name F
Sarah RILEY (AFN:347X-T8)
Born: 1827

Place: Birmingham, Warwick, England Died: 1 Jan 1857

2. Sex Name M
Frederick RILEY (AFN:347X-VF)
Born: 4 Oct 1836

Place: Birmingham, Warwick, Eng
3. Sex Name F
Mary Ann RILEY (AFN:1LDQ-MS) Born: 27 Apr 1831

Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England, Uk Died: 19 Feb 1915

Place: Ogden, Weber, Ut Buried: Place: City Cemetery, Ogden, Weber, Utah
4. Sex Name M
Benjamin RILEY (AFN:347X-S3)
Born: 24 May 1826

Place: Birmingham, Warwick, England 5. Sex Name M
William RILEY (AFN:C2S6-10) Born: 25 May 1824

Place: Birmingham, Warwick, England Died: 13 Sep 1899

Place: West Bromwich, N.n., Warwickshire, England

Hope this helps if not there is another Member ready to spring into action.

 

[Pomgolian]

This looks like your family in 1841, however there is no William snr and seems like it's a phonic spelling of the name Riley

1841 Census
Birmingham -Warwickshire Enumeration District: 2
Civil Parish: B'ham (St Paul) Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Address: 6 Crt 4 Hse Livery St
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
RYLEY Ann F 45 Outside Census County
RYLEY William M 15 Gun Maker Outside Census County
RYLEY Benjamin M 14 Outside Census County
RYLEY Maryann F 9 Outside Census County
RYLEY Sarah F 6 Outside Census County
RYLEY Frederick M 4 Outside Census County

You may need to look under alternative spellings.

Pom :angel:

 

[Catkin]

Riley Family

There was a RIley family that lived at the top of The Ridgeway, Erdington 336/338 There was a son named Gilbert , think he also had a younger brother. ............Cat

 

[Napalil]

Riley

I have the Ancestral file also. I certainly appreciate your response though. I am trying to back up the Ancestral file with birth or baptism, marriage and death certificates. It seems that William Riley snr doesn't want to be found for that purpose.

I also appreciate the different spelling tip...........I'll get right on that one. I belong to Ancestry.com and will see what I can find and mention this to the researcher as well.

Thanks so much!!!!

Lil from the USA

 

[John Young]

Rilley realy rile researching,

Hello again Lil from Sunny California

Here are a few "early" Riley,s in situations of Central B,ham
in & around the Time zones of your searchings, may assist to "click".

Poor Laws, B,ham Union Volume 21
Certificated Removal from B,ham (Resettlement)
Elizabeth Riley a Widow& James(11-Son) to Tanworth ( in Arden)

Apprenticeships; Thomas Riley (Tailor)gave Appr to George Turner
7th June 1876,,,, William Riley was Appr to Charle Pennell in trade
of Bird Gun Finisher 14th Nov 1860

Wrightson Directories 1823, Alphabet L-R page 117
Thomas Riley Ivory & Bone Turner 19 Grecu,s Village ?

Wrightson,s 1830, Alpha pg 80,, Riley & Hackett, Ladies Academy
of Lawley Street (Aston juxta Nechells way)
Thomas Riley, Gun /Pistol Engraver 15 Court, Weaman Street
Thomas Riley, Ivory/Bone Turner, 17 Court, Navigation Street.
(Thomas above, also same @ navigation St in 1833)
Wrightson,s 1833 Alpa pg 72, Margaret Riley, Shoemaker
a Shoemaker at 24 William Street..

These few above may "link" you & your Researcher to your Riley,s
Best Regards,, John Y

 

[Napalil]

Riley

Thank you. I believe one of those Riley's is the son of the William I am looking for. I ordered the Poor Law from another site - too soon as you supplied me with the information.

The researcher and I have 11 death certificates on Wm Riley and none are positively identifiable as him.....talk about frustrating. Plus, not knowing about the 1841 census where the phonetic spelling as Ryley....didn't help matters. The researcher has a copy of the 1841 original census for me, but William Sr wasn't even on it......My records show he died in 1849....

I appreciate your sharing this information with me. I'll try to think positive.......
Lil from the wine country of Napa CA

 

[Pomgolian]

I do hope you are not paying your researcher , because 'Phonic' spellings of names in old records is one of the first rules to follow if you can't find a name the way you think or have been told it should be spelled.

Pom :angel:

 

[John Young]

Right on Pom Gal

Well pointed out Pom Gal i too hope Lil our friend in California
is not paying out too much for relatively standard searches ,
Noticed earlier,, 11 (eleven) Death certs obtained (£77) :shocked:
but not even certain of correctness, Just trying, ?Wow eh!
Phonic/Dialectic & illiterate(of the era) mistranscribings should
be a pre-requisite of professionals being paid to search,
Its not Rocket science eh,, us Amateurs struggle through Ok.

Ok Li, no offences intended but watch your purse, searching,,
Best Regards John Y

 

[Napalil]

Riley

Thanks guys, but I had agreed to a fee up front. I'm sure I was burned a little, but what choice do I have?

We were trying to follow a trail and it didn't pan out. :cry:

Hope someone here has some more suggestions. What are the neighboring counties? The last birth in Wm's family was in 1836, but Wm isn't on the 1841 census with the rest of the family....

Questions, questions, questions.

Lil from the USA

 

[John Young]

Counties nearby

Hi Lil & quite understand your situation No probs on here

Birmingham in earlier times including your years of interest was the
County border "meeting point" of Warwickshire, Worcestershire+(Herefordshire) including
Staffordshire with sections of B,ham going from one to the other as
the Politicos so ruled,, Electoral & Parish often conflicting.
The burgeoning growth of Birmingham (Ham= hamlet) soon outgrew
the former much larger & important Aston as the Canals system
brought the Work/Industrial revolution into B,ham
Many people left small rural towns from Counties quite far from
the central Midlands base of B,ham,, my 1770,s people came
from Northamptonshire & Herefordshire & Herefordshire was sometimes
not even in England but classed as in Wales,, many came into B,ham
from Counties 50-80 miles radius to work (employed) or work for
themselves,, B.ham was not a "Guilded City" like London or Bristol so
Tradesmen did not have to pay to "the Guild" to get work,
Hence B.ham outgrew Bristol & London lost much of its "Skilled"
trades/Jewelry/Manufacturing etc & became Workhouse of World
so ,,, Lil ,, you can see to chose a County of origin for Your people
would be very difficult so best work back through Parish records
pre 1837 & try the long hard dig,, Cheers Lil,, John Y

 

[Pomgolian]

Hi Lil, this looks like your young William and his parents and we now have a church
WILLIAM RILEY Male

Events:

Birth: 25 MAY 1824

Christening: 07 FEB 1825 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, EnglandD

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM RILEY
Mother: ANN

William Riley Male Birth: 25 MAY 1824 Birmingham, Warwick, England

Spouse: Mary Ann Allen
Marriage: 09 JAN 1853 Parish Church, All Saints, Leicester, England

One of our members may now be able to find more details from the church records. Don't get too excited, as it is not always so. It depended on who wrote them at the time and how busy they were.

Pom :angel:

 

[Pomgolian]

Here's Ben and Fred... Christened at the same church
BENJAMIN RILEY
Male
Events:
Birth: 24 MAY 1826
Christening: 11 JAN 1830 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM RILEY
Mother: ANN

FREDERICK RILEY
Male
Events:
Birth: 04 OCT 1836
Christening: 02 JAN 1837 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM RILEY
Mother: ANN

Pom :angel:

 

[Napalil]

Riley

Whoo hooo!!!!

You really deserve that angel emoticon!!!

I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Happy Lil from the USA

 

[Di.Poppitt]

Hi Lill, so far so good You seem pretty sure that William died in 1849, what redords do yoou have to prove this. I ask so that we don't take you down another futile track. If you are certain then there is only one William Riley/Ryley death registered in Birmingham in that year William Riley June quarter 1849 Birmingham ref 16 198.

I then found a William Riley on the 1841 census, in Water Street, Watchman, age 40, age rounded down in this case, he was alone. Providing we don't find the family all together on the 1861, I wonder if William had a job as a watchman that took him away from the family at night.

 

[Pomgolian]

Hi Di I also found that William in Water St and was about to post the same idea.
Another thought is, he may have been working farther afield as some men did to get much needed work and income. These men only come home for short breaks, a few days at a time and so would not have been at home on the day of the census.

Pom :angel:

 

[Di.Poppitt]

Yes Chris I think so too.

I have found the children who were left without both parents. The proof is Thomas Cole Cousin. I did the search on Frederick, which is why he heads the family. But his brother William looked after the family.

1851 census
Name:Fredrick RileyAge:14
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1837Relation:Brother Gender:Male Where born:Birmingham Civil Parish: St George
Street address: House 3 back 49 Brearley Street
Occupation Pistol Maker

Sub-registration district:St George
Household Members:
NameAge Thomas Cole cousin.16 Air gun maker Fredrick Riley 14 Pistol Maker Sarah Riley 17 William Riley 25 Head Gun Finisher Ellen Taylor 52 visitor

 

[Napalil]

Riley

Hi folks!

Thanks for all the digging.....

Mary Ann Riley born 27 Apr 1831 married to Wm. Beckettt, Jr (born 24 Oct 1825 in Walsall, Staffordshire) on 4 Dec 1848 in Birmingham and they came to the US and appear on the 1880 US census. They both died in Ogden, Weber Utah, he on 10 Nov 1888 and she not until 19 Feb 1915.

I'm sure the Mormon side of my family picked up the date from family history data through the church from Mary Ann Riley while in Utah (I assume she joined the Mormon Church) but that is why I am trying to back up that data with whatever birth, death certificates, etc I can obtain. Also, our history has hit a brick wall with Wm Riley Sr. Same is true on the Beckett side hitting a brick wall with Wm Beckett Sr born 06 Mar 1802, in Walsall, Staffordshire, died 03 Jul 1852. I'm trying to get through that brick wall....hopefully with your help.

It's incredibly important to me to document once and for all the information researched by my family. I can't tell you how much I appreciate any help I can get. If you have any suggestions of where I can look let me know. I know the researcher I hired obtained information on the children as well but don't have those documents yet. Basically she said that she couldn't determine for sure from the death certificates she obtained on different Wm Rileys', including the one in 1849 that it was my Wm Riley.
Besides the Poor Law mentioned that I did order, is there anything else that might lead me to more information?
Thanks so much
Lil

 

[Pomgolian]

[SIZE=+1]Hi Lil here's the reference for Mary Ann's marriage, if you get this you will know if her father was sill alive at this time, or deceased. Also it will have occupations and addresses on too : [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Marriages Quarter Dec 1848 Vol Page[/SIZE]
Riley Mary Ann Birmingham ............. 16... 535
Beckett William Birmingham ............ 16... 535

You can get the certificate which costs about 7 to 8 English pounds and can be ordered on the net, post, or by phone.
giving the above date and reference details from:
email: [email protected]
or
Phone: 0044 870 243 7788
or
Write to: PO Box 2, Southport, Mersyside, PR8 2JD UK.

Hope this helps

Pom :angel:

 

[Napalil]

Riley

Thank you "POM."

I emailed them and asked if they accept "World Pay" so I can get that certificate.

You guys are the best!

Lil