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Pubs and Inns of Bull Ring and Market areas from 1940s

Thanks Phil. I never knew it at all, in either guise. I will draw a veil over the mental image of you taking out "ladies of the lunch hour". I may need a tablet and a lie down otherwise...

Bull Ring Tavern  1974.jpg Talbot Pub Deritend.jpg

And at no 10 is THE CASTLE AND FALCON (Fancy silk store) and no 12 The infamous ST MARTIN'S HOTEL...




Castle and Falcon  .jpg Castle & Falcon narrative.jpgSt Martins Tavern  Bull Ring  1970.jpg
 
Dennis I never knew either of these two pubs that stood next door to each other on the corner junction of Lease Lane & Edgbaston Street. I think they were a little before my time. The City Crown & the Wagon & Horses.

Going back to the Talbot, we took two delightful young ladies who worked for Woolworth's for lunch one day, when they returned to work they were warned about drinking in the dinner hour. So next day when we took them for lunch again they couldn't go back to work and we spent the afternoon together. When they went back to work the next day they got the sack.
 

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Another stunning view of ST MARTINS TAVERN and a peek down Jamaica Row......which used to be known as Black Boy Yard (see Hanson's Map of 1789), and the Georgian three-storied Tavern there used to be called the Black Boy Inn. The term Black Boy refers to the dark skinned complexion of King Charles II. The Inn was painted by local artist A. Tarlington but I cannot find a copy to post. The history of the place is quite interesting, the landlord in 1817 of the Woolpack in nearby Spiceal Street had a dispute with his Landlord, so he bought the Black Boy and took all his customers with him to his new pub, leaving The Woolpack to degenerate and be closed and sold to a tea dealer. So he then incorporated the name of the Woolpack into his new pub, thus it became the Black Boy and Woolpack. Evidently there was a large carved figure of a negro boy with bright red lips at the entrance of the pub, but this disappeared when the name changes went on...political correctness was not a feature in those days...After a while the Woolpack (which it become known as), was sold for £7,400 to the Town Council and demolished to build the Fruit and Veg market, plus the rebuilding of The St Martins Hotel on the site was completed...

Jamaica Row  St Martins   1938.jpg Black Boy Yard Hanson Map 1789.jpg

Plus the other BOARD VAULTS at 56 Worcester Street, corner of Bell Street...


Board Vaults  Worcester St.jpg
 
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A few more from the list...The Birmingham Arms, The Cross Keys, The Hop Pole. The New Inn, and The Sydenham Hotel....


Birmingham Arms  Moat Row   1957.jpgCross Keys   Sherlock Street.jpgHop Pole  Pershore Street  1924.jpgNew Inn  Hotel  191  Bromsgrove Street   1953.jpgSydenham Hotel  Edgbaston St  1924.jpg
 
And some more that were there before the 1940s selection..The Map is dated 1888.


Pub Maps 1888 Markets Area.jpg


1888 PUBS. Key to the numbered pubs...


  1. SPREAD EAGLE, 14 Spiceal St
  2. NEW MARKET INN, 68 Worcester St
  3. TURK’S HEAD, 71 Worcester St
  4. GOODFELLOWS LODGE, 4 Old Meeting St
  5. KINGS HEAD HOTEL, Dudley St
  6. CRITERION, 42 Edgbaston St
  7. OLD SARACENS HEAD, 20 Edgbaston St
  8. THE GOLDEN FLEECE, 1/2 Edgbaston St
  9. COACH & HORSES, 40 Upper Dean St
 
Hi Dennis, just bringing this thread alive again. In that area just of Dean street, there was a pub called the Eagle and Ball any info on it or even better a photo would be greatly apprecated.
 
Hi Dennis
Are you able to add The Dolphin of Charles Henry Street to Robert's request?
Dave
 
According to the 1921 & 2932 Kellys it was nos 37-41, Thomas Jameson timber merchants
 
Hi Dennis, just bringing this thread alive again. In that area just of Dean street, there was a pub called the Eagle and Ball any info on it or even better a photo would be greatly apprecated.

Hi Robert. Thanks for the resurrection. Unfortunately, the only Eagle and Ball I know of around that area, and this one is not really near Dean Street, and didn't survive anyway after New Street Station was built, is the one I featured in the Alleyways and Snickets thread...reproduced below...I can't find any mention in any of my books about one in Dean Street....but Phil's the real expert...maybe he knows of one that had a previous existence under that name?



In the mists of time we had quite a few narrow streets, and many many more interesting Pubs therein. Here's a tale about two Streets and one very famous old pubs.. One of Brum’s most famous Pubs was The Eagle and Ball, or 'The Eagle' as it was better known. There was a large carved figure of an Eagle perched upon a Globe over the door that gave it some extra swagger and class…which ended up in a Solihull man's (a Mr Unite) garden incidentally...no photos survive surely?

The Inn was upon the south side of Colmore Street, and a clue to its exact location is gained from Eliezer Edwards’ OLD TAVERNS OF BIRMINGHAM, from which this tale is largely plundered, who in 1879 said “Its site is now within New Street Station, but the roadway of Great Queen Street passes over what was once the Inn yard, and the present open railings of the Old Meeting House burial ground stand upon the foundations of the wall which originally separated the Inn premises from the chapel yard.“ So although we have no picture or drawing of this place, we can at least have some accurate idea where it was… witness the clips...





Edwards notes that the Inn was not anything pretentious nor memorable in architecture, but it had a large commodious room at the back which became one of Birmingham’s first ever marble alleys. Bit like the Dirty duck in Harborne for them’s that know these things. There are tales of Birmingham’s finest like “George Dixon, and a Mr Kynnersley scrabbling round on their padded knees, playing marbles against Mr Holliday and Oliver Pemberton, whilst Alderman Manton, Mr R.W. Dale, Mr Sampson Lloyd and Alderman Avery, each with a long pipe and beaker of ale, looked critically on…”

In 1789 the House was owned and run by one Joseph Warden, an ancestor of the family known so well in Birmingham at that time, in connection to the iron trade. Mr Warden had a good singing voice, and “his house became celebrated as one where a visitor could not only obtain the sine qua non of those days, a glass of good ale, but might also be certain to hear good singing.” Was it ever thus in the Broadway several hundred years later I pondered happily……​

Last edited by Dennis Williams; October 1st, 2012 at 11:24.
 
Whilst I am here...just found a fabulous print of the old Nelson Inn in Line and Baggett's lovely book on Georgian and Early Victorian Brum....it goes nicely with Braddon's early, perhaps better known, print of the Nelson Inn and the stagecoach leaving....and I've added this nice resume of it's history by Joe Mc Kenna from his Central Birmingham Pubs book...hope you enjoy...it is, of course earlier than the other pubs featured in this Thread, hope the bailiffs are kind to me...this being in the 1840s not the 1940s...


"Officially the Bull Ring is bit a short stretch of road between Moor Street and Park Street. To many though, it was that funnel-shaped area between the parish church and the junction of New Street and High Street, including Spiceal Street. Here was situated at 3-4 Spiceal Street another ancient inn. Its original name was the Maiden's Head, its inn sign depicting a painting of the Virgin Mary, patron of the Mercers' Company. The house is first referred to in a Guild Rental of 1524: 'Thomas Cowper heir to John Cowper butcher for his tenement in the Market place called the Maydenhead.'

In a deed of I550 the house is described as the 'Meydenhedde nighe the high cross, tenantedby the above, "Thomas Couper'''. Following the Reformation the name of the house was changed to the Talbot, but because of its inn sign it was more popularly known as The Dog.

Nelson Hotel  later Dog Inn 1830.jpg Bull Ring Nelson Hotel Stagecoach.jpg

The Talbots were Earls of Shrewsbury, who gave their name to a species of large white hunting dog, depicted on the board. By 1625 the house was in the keeping of the Lea family. On 1 January I680 the inn was described as 'scituate or being in a certain street called Spicers Street, commonly called or known by the signe of the Talbot'. By then the building had been divided into two tenements, one of which was let in 1679 to 'Thomas Bird, saddler, for £3 10s per annum, and one fatt goose at Christmasse'.

The tenancy of the inn itself passed from John Cooper to Jonathan Rowe, who paid £25 per annum, and in 1700 to Richard Halfpenny, whose annual rent was £34 10s. In 1709 the tenant was John Hargrave, in whose lease the inn was described as the Talbot alias the Dogg, in Spicers Street alias Mercers Street.

It would appear that about this time the house was faced in brick. John Brown is listed in the trade directory of 1779 as its landlord, though the house is not named. He is referred to as innkeeper, 3-4 Spiceal Street. Richard Garnett was landlord from 1780 until his death on 28 July 1787, a fact recorded in Aris's Gazette two days later. His widow Margaret took up the license, but in September 1791 she sold the premises to Samuel Wyer. Very kindly she inserted the following advertisement in the Gazette:

DOG INN, Birmingham
M. Garnett respectfully returns her grateful Acknowledgments to
Her Friends and the Public in general, for the Favours received
During the Time of her occupying that House, and begs leave to
Recommend Mr Wyer as her Successor, for whom she particularly
Solicit's a Continuance of their favours.


After the death of Admiral Lord Nelson at Trafalgar in 1805, a statue was erected to the Admiral on the site of the old Market Cross, and the Dog Inn was renamed the Lord Nelson Inn. This old house, whose history dated back some 400 years, was demolished for the building of the Fish Market, which opened in I869·"
 
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Hi Dennis, just bringing this thread alive again. In that area just of Dean street, there was a pub called the Eagle and Ball any info on it or even better a photo would be greatly apprecated.

I think The Moby Dick was originally called the Eagle and Ball but that was on the corner of Penn St and Gospel St its still there (just about)
 
I think The Moby Dick was originally called the Eagle and Ball but that was on the corner of Penn St and Gospel St its still there (just about)


That's right dek. And the Moby has lots of pics on here...and nice to see you dek, thought you had abandoned me (for good reason no doubt)...?

Penn Street Eagle & Bull Gopsall Street.jpgs.jpgPenn St Moby Dicks.jpg
As it was ........................ and a bit later ........... ... and now....
 
Robert
The Eagle & V
Ball was opposite the end of Dean St on the corner of Moseley st and sherlock st.It is marked in red on the c 1889 map below

Dean_st_map_c_1889_showing_Eagle___Ball_pub.jpg
 
Thanks folks, Cant believe the pub is still standing. Great work. I wonder if there is any plans for it in the future.
 
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Hi Dennis, I have just found this post and the picture of the Board Inn was a real memory jerker for me, my aunt and uncle Tom and Amy Tomlinson ran it in the mid/late 50's and I can recall visiting it although only about 7 or 8 years old. They ran some other pubs later around Birmingham before emigrating to Australia, sadly both gone now. BobJ
 
Robert
The Eagle & V
Ball was opposite the end of Dean St on the corner of Moseley st and sherlock st.It is marked in red on the c 1889 map below

Yes, thanks mike. McKenna states "At 1 Moseley Street, on the corner of Sherlock Street, was the NEW INN, opened in 1853 under the licence of John King. In 1858 the hose was renamed the Eagle and Ball, George Docker was in charge. It closed in 1971. I have no idea if there is a picture of it? Phil?
 
Dennis, I'm sorry mate I have just spent about two hours searching through everything I have, and the result is zero. I can't find a photo of any of these pubs, but I will go on searching.
 
Hi just wanted to say my nan, grandad and my mum used to run the black swan they left in 1970 to run another pub in leicester. I was just looking to see if any pictures were out there of the black swan as i never saw it. Its quite a sad story actually as my grandad was driving back to the black swan to collect the last few things one night, he was on the A5 had a massive heart attack smashed into a tree and died instantly. Anyway thanks for posting the picture. Keeley
 
Hi just wanted to say my nan, grandad and my mum used to run the black swan they left in 1970 to run another pub in leicester. I was just looking to see if any pictures were out there of the black swan as i never saw it. Its quite a sad story actually as my grandad was driving back to the black swan to collect the last few things one night, he was on the A5 had a massive heart attack smashed into a tree and died instantly. Anyway thanks for posting the picture. Keeley
I think it's on this thread with the fire brigade in attendance..
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=40256&page=2

23B_Black_Swan2C5_bromsgrove_st.jpg
By Mikejee
 
Whilst I am here...just found a fabulous print of the old Nelson Inn in Line and Baggett's lovely book on Georgian and Early Victorian Brum....it goes nicely with Braddon's early, perhaps better known, print of the Nelson Inn and the stagecoach leaving....and I've added this nice resume of it's history by Joe Mc Kenna from his Central Birmingham Pubs book...hope you enjoy...it is, of course earlier than the other pubs featured in this Thread, hope the bailiffs are kind to me...this being in the 1840s not the 1940s...


"Officially the Bull Ring is bit a short stretch of road between Moor Street and Park Street. To many though, it was that funnel-shaped area between the parish church and the junction of New Street and High Street, including Spiceal Street. Here was situated at 3-4 Spiceal Street another ancient inn. Its original name was the Maiden's Head, its inn sign depicting a painting of the Virgin Mary, patron of the Mercers' Company. The house is first referred to in a Guild Rental of 1524: 'Thomas Cowper heir to John Cowper butcher for his tenement in the Market place called the Maydenhead.'

In a deed of I550 the house is described as the 'Meydenhedde nighe the high cross, tenantedby the above, "Thomas Couper'''. Following the Reformation the name of the house was changed to the Talbot, but because of its inn sign it was more popularly known as The Dog.

View attachment 88036 View attachment 88037

The Talbots were Earls of Shrewsbury, who gave their name to a species of large white hunting dog, depicted on the board. By 1625 the house was in the keeping of the Lea family. On 1 January I680 the inn was described as 'scituate or being in a certain street called Spicers Street, commonly called or known by the signe of the Talbot'. By then the building had been divided into two tenements, one of which was let in 1679 to 'Thomas Bird, saddler, for £3 10s per annum, and one fatt goose at Christmasse'.

The tenancy of the inn itself passed from John Cooper to Jonathan Rowe, who paid £25 per annum, and in 1700 to Richard Halfpenny, whose annual rent was £34 10s. In 1709 the tenant was John Hargrave, in whose lease the inn was described as the Talbot alias the Dogg, in Spicers Street alias Mercers Street.

It would appear that about this time the house was faced in brick. John Brown is listed in the trade directory of 1779 as its landlord, though the house is not named. He is referred to as innkeeper, 3-4 Spiceal Street. Richard Garnett was landlord from 1780 until his death on 28 July 1787, a fact recorded in Aris's Gazette two days later. His widow Margaret took up the license, but in September 1791 she sold the premises to Samuel Wyer. Very kindly she inserted the following advertisement in the Gazette:

DOG INN, Birmingham
M. Garnett respectfully returns her grateful Acknowledgments to
Her Friends and the Public in general, for the Favours received
During the Time of her occupying that House, and begs leave to
Recommend Mr Wyer as her Successor, for whom she particularly
Solicit's a Continuance of their favours.


After the death of Admiral Lord Nelson at Trafalgar in 1805, a statue was erected to the Admiral on the site of the old Market Cross, and the Dog Inn was renamed the Lord Nelson Inn. This old house, whose history dated back some 400 years, was demolished for the building of the Fish Market, which opened in I869·"
Absolutely brilliant. Thank you for posting these pictures. My great great great great grandfather Charles Radenhurst owned the Nelson and the Stagecoach company that operated out of it.
Where did you get the prints? Are there any more?
 
My Father in laws favourite pub in Town was the Hole in the wall we even had our wedding reception (very small do) there end of 1970.
 
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Great to see another picture of one my great great great great grandfather Charles Radenhurst's businesses he also had 2 hotels in Birmingham city center the
New Inns on New St & the Clarendon in Waterloo St

Radenhurst New Inns.jpg
 
the birmingham pubs of brum;
the breaking news today is the old garrison pub as been sold for a large amount of money this lunch time
for a total amount of one hundred and thirty eight thousand pounds
what a pub of history of brum surely it should have fetched more and lets hope its keeping the old blue nose happy
and they may be able to still used it as they have done for decades along with the peekie blinders did and i hope whom as ever bought it dont think its gonna be another eating place like most of them have been over the decades around brum names i can recall but there is to many and time consuming
i always wondered where the peekiys film was recorded now i have finaly found out
It is sad the area is run down thou but lets hope the blue nose,s give there support through and through
i wish the new owners wjhom ever they are all the best in the future
from one villa fan; astonian;
 
Finally for the day, No 6 is the nearby TAMWORTH ARMS, 5 Moor Street

Built in 1822, with a James Smith as its first landlord, it was designed by William Jenkins in 1890. It narrowly survived the Blitz in 1941, only to be demolished for the Moor Street Queensway alterations; whence it was replaced by the Outriggeer…a nautically themed pub even I remember having a few in…until that begat the Ship Ashore…and then oblivion…


View attachment 80934 View attachment 80929View attachment 80930View attachment 80931View attachment 80932View attachment 80933 View attachment 80935

....and so the first six have been named...and I'll move over now if Phil wants to take over for a few?

1 SWAN HOTEL, Swan Passage
2 THE COMET, High Street
3 THE BELL INN, 7 Phillips Street
4 THE BOARD INN, Phillips Street / High Street
5 THE WOOLPACK HOTEL, 8-9 Moor Street
6 THE TAMWORTH ARMS, 5 Moor Street

View attachment 80936
Dennis - really great information. I’m looking for more about the Broad Inn - especially any photo session of it and a one time landlord, James Donovan. Any help would be really appreciated!
 
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