DavidGrain
master brummie
Bobby Dazzler is someone who dresses well or look good
Bobowler is a moth but by extension means someone who stays out late at night
Bobowler is a moth but by extension means someone who stays out late at night
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I Am Nico
master brummie
I have also heard of Bobby pins, and Bobby socks. Doubt they have Brummie origins.
Bobowler
knowlegable brummie
’Ow do muckers, ar I know what y’mean Nico, with ‘Bobby Dazzler’, an’ ’ow at first glance it does look like it could be linked to ‘Bobby-owler’, an’ thereby to ‘Bobowler’. But, as David says, ‘Bobby Dazzler’ tends t’mean someone who’s smartly dressed, not a moth or butterfly. In the Oxford English Dictionary, as well as defining ‘Bobby Dazzler’ as “a strikingly-dressed person”, it also actually gives it as meanin’ “Something striking or excellent”. The earliest examples quoted there, from 1866 and 1891, are to its use in Lancashire, so it seems it might ’ave a northern origin.
I think I can see where y’might be comin’ from with ‘Bobby Dazzler’ mind, in that if this means summut dazzlin’ y’could apply it to a brightly coloured butterfly or moth. Though I dun’t think there is any connection meself, as the ‘bob’ in ‘Bobowler’ and the ‘bobby’ in ‘Bobby Dazzler’ more than likely ’ave different origins. I’d say this was true for ‘Bobby pins’ an’ ‘Bobby socks’ an’ all, both of which are actually originally Americanisms.
I was interested in what y’said about folk in Berkswell soundin’ like Brummies, as this is so near t’Coventry. I dun’t know anyone meself who comes from out that way, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the Brummie accent reaches that far. As I noted before, back in the 1950s the Survey of English Dialects recorded the speech of rural England, an’ although they den’t cover Brummagem or the Black Country as such, they did get fairly near.
One of their recordin’s is of a William Sewell from Hockley Heath, in what was then Warwickshire, who I think sounds rather like a Brummie, or a bit ‘Brumish’, as y’said in an earlier post, though Mr Sewell seems t’ave a slight ‘rustic’ twang. Then there’s Stanley Ellis of Romsley in north Worcestershire, who sounds much less Brummie t’me, though still a little rural, an’ a recordin’ of a George Brooke from Himley, south Staffordshire, which, whilst only just outside the Black Country, I dun’t think sounds much like that dialect, even though it’s on the edge of it.
Anyroad, before I go – David, I wonder if y’could clarify about Shakespeare’s rhyming of ‘die’ with ‘dignity’ and ‘memory’? Are y’sayin’ that in the Black Country they’d pronounce these as ‘d-oy’, ‘dignit-oy’ and ‘memor-oy’??
I think I can see where y’might be comin’ from with ‘Bobby Dazzler’ mind, in that if this means summut dazzlin’ y’could apply it to a brightly coloured butterfly or moth. Though I dun’t think there is any connection meself, as the ‘bob’ in ‘Bobowler’ and the ‘bobby’ in ‘Bobby Dazzler’ more than likely ’ave different origins. I’d say this was true for ‘Bobby pins’ an’ ‘Bobby socks’ an’ all, both of which are actually originally Americanisms.
I was interested in what y’said about folk in Berkswell soundin’ like Brummies, as this is so near t’Coventry. I dun’t know anyone meself who comes from out that way, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the Brummie accent reaches that far. As I noted before, back in the 1950s the Survey of English Dialects recorded the speech of rural England, an’ although they den’t cover Brummagem or the Black Country as such, they did get fairly near.
One of their recordin’s is of a William Sewell from Hockley Heath, in what was then Warwickshire, who I think sounds rather like a Brummie, or a bit ‘Brumish’, as y’said in an earlier post, though Mr Sewell seems t’ave a slight ‘rustic’ twang. Then there’s Stanley Ellis of Romsley in north Worcestershire, who sounds much less Brummie t’me, though still a little rural, an’ a recordin’ of a George Brooke from Himley, south Staffordshire, which, whilst only just outside the Black Country, I dun’t think sounds much like that dialect, even though it’s on the edge of it.
Anyroad, before I go – David, I wonder if y’could clarify about Shakespeare’s rhyming of ‘die’ with ‘dignity’ and ‘memory’? Are y’sayin’ that in the Black Country they’d pronounce these as ‘d-oy’, ‘dignit-oy’ and ‘memor-oy’??
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DavidGrain
master brummie
Lenny Henry tells you that he comes from Dud-lye pronounced as in the name of the town of Lye near Stourbridge. I am saying that Shakespeare would be similarly pronouncing the words as dignit-ye and memor-ye which will then rhyme with die pronounced as we expect it to be pronounced. I would not argue with -oy which is possible but I think that has a slightly different sound.
Smudger
master brummie
That would be David Dickinson. Cheap as chips mate!
ParsleyDarling
New Member
My father - when animated - would pronounce the word "floor" as flo-er and "door" as doe-er .....I think he was probably last of his generation that did so, neither myself or my sister ever adopted that pronunciation!
I Am Nico
master brummie
My Nan did too thought she was from near Stourbridge. e.g. girrup off the floo er (floor).
We were in Knowle the weekend, no trace of Brummie then Balsall Common and I hear Brummie.
Two relatives, brothers in Droitwich (my Grandparents called Dryte wich,) one has a Brummie twang the other doesn't. Another relative from the other side of Malvern lived a long time in Stratford and Long Marston, has the Brummie twang. As you say there was the Norman influence spoken by the nobility not I believe by us Joe Soaps but the French say banc (bonk) for bank, like Quarry Bonk and drop their H's usually.
I have heard Shakesperian language pronouncing wind as wynde. My grandad's Kinver/Silver End mother married to his Dudley father said type for tip.
Bobowler
knowlegable brummie
’Ow do David, many thanks for comin’ back t’me about the pronunciation of ‘dignity’ an’ ‘memory’ in the Black Country. Apologies t’other members if we’re startin’ t’go a little off track agen, an’ I ’ope Smudger an’ others dun’t mind too much, but I just want t’clear this up. I mus’ also say that phonology en’t summut I know much about, but I’ll give it a go!
I’ve been lookin’ at an interestin’ study by Ed Conduit called The Black Country Dialect: A Modern Linguistic Analysis, in which ’e seems t’note the diphthong y’re talking about appearin’ in words like ‘boy’ an’ ‘choice’, as well as ‘find’, an’ transcribes this sound as “aye” (which would be equivalent to a standard pronunciation of the word ‘eye’, as in the thing y’see with, an’ not as it would be in the word ‘bay’, as in a coastal inlet).
Mr Conduit ascribes the International phonetic alphabet symbol of ‘aɪ’ to this sound, which is indeed different to what I was thinking when I said about ‘-oy’, which ’e notes in words like ‘mither’, ’an for which ’e gives the symbol ‘ɔɪ’. Before we go further, here’s a map based on more gen found in the Survey of English Dialects, this time from The Linguistic Atlas of England, specifically dealin’ with the traditional pronunciation of ‘died’:
As y’can see the important areas for the West Midlands are the ones for ‘ai’, which would represent what y’think of as bein’ the typical Black Country pronunciation, as noted by Ed Conduit, an’ that for ‘ɔi’, which is the ‘-oy’ I mentioned. As I’ve said before, the Survey den’t venture int’Brummagem an’ the Black Country, so on the map the ‘ai’ area is only across south Shropshire an’ dun’t cover the Black Country, though given Mr Conduit’s study we can assume it did, an’ still does. The ‘ɔi’ area can also be seen to range over a large region, includin’ eastern Worcestershire, much of south Staffordshire and nearly all of Warwickshire, so, goin’ by this, it’s more than likely this is what would ’ave been used in Brummagem.
Anyroad up, I’ll stop there for now, but I will come back t’ya about the Shakespearean pronunciation of things.
I’ve been lookin’ at an interestin’ study by Ed Conduit called The Black Country Dialect: A Modern Linguistic Analysis, in which ’e seems t’note the diphthong y’re talking about appearin’ in words like ‘boy’ an’ ‘choice’, as well as ‘find’, an’ transcribes this sound as “aye” (which would be equivalent to a standard pronunciation of the word ‘eye’, as in the thing y’see with, an’ not as it would be in the word ‘bay’, as in a coastal inlet).
Mr Conduit ascribes the International phonetic alphabet symbol of ‘aɪ’ to this sound, which is indeed different to what I was thinking when I said about ‘-oy’, which ’e notes in words like ‘mither’, ’an for which ’e gives the symbol ‘ɔɪ’. Before we go further, here’s a map based on more gen found in the Survey of English Dialects, this time from The Linguistic Atlas of England, specifically dealin’ with the traditional pronunciation of ‘died’:
As y’can see the important areas for the West Midlands are the ones for ‘ai’, which would represent what y’think of as bein’ the typical Black Country pronunciation, as noted by Ed Conduit, an’ that for ‘ɔi’, which is the ‘-oy’ I mentioned. As I’ve said before, the Survey den’t venture int’Brummagem an’ the Black Country, so on the map the ‘ai’ area is only across south Shropshire an’ dun’t cover the Black Country, though given Mr Conduit’s study we can assume it did, an’ still does. The ‘ɔi’ area can also be seen to range over a large region, includin’ eastern Worcestershire, much of south Staffordshire and nearly all of Warwickshire, so, goin’ by this, it’s more than likely this is what would ’ave been used in Brummagem.
Anyroad up, I’ll stop there for now, but I will come back t’ya about the Shakespearean pronunciation of things.
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Bobowler
knowlegable brummie
’Ow do Parsley & Nico, ar that’s a good point about ‘floor’ an’ ‘door’ bein’ said summut like ‘flo-er’ an’ ‘do-er’, or p’r’aps even more like ‘flow-a’ an’ ‘dow-a’. It’s right an’ all that more often than not these days it’s only older folk that tend t’say things that way, an’ so would be a recessive feature. Mind, I think it’s still fairly common in the Black Country?
Anyroad, if y’listen t’the recordin’ of that William Sewell from Hockley Heath I said about, then y’ll ’ear ’im say ‘mow-a’ for ‘more’ – it’s at 1:02. As to a more modern Brummie accent, there’s a bostin’ recordin’ of a chap called Harry Phillips, who came out of Small Heath, which was made in the late 1990s as part of ‘The Century Speaks’ an’ is now in the Millennium Memory Bank. The way Harry talks is what I’d call proper Brummie, an’ it reminds me of the speech of many older Brummies of that generation.
For comparison there’s also Billy Faulkner from Wolverhampton, which sounds pretty Black Country t’me, an’ also the much more Black Country recordin’ of Roy Bunn of Quarry Bank. Lastly, there’s one of a Henry Heath from Wolverhampton that was made in 1916, whilst ’e was a prisoner of war during the Great War out in Germany, and where ’e reads the Parable of the Prodigal Son – all well worth a listen.
Anyroad, if y’listen t’the recordin’ of that William Sewell from Hockley Heath I said about, then y’ll ’ear ’im say ‘mow-a’ for ‘more’ – it’s at 1:02. As to a more modern Brummie accent, there’s a bostin’ recordin’ of a chap called Harry Phillips, who came out of Small Heath, which was made in the late 1990s as part of ‘The Century Speaks’ an’ is now in the Millennium Memory Bank. The way Harry talks is what I’d call proper Brummie, an’ it reminds me of the speech of many older Brummies of that generation.
For comparison there’s also Billy Faulkner from Wolverhampton, which sounds pretty Black Country t’me, an’ also the much more Black Country recordin’ of Roy Bunn of Quarry Bank. Lastly, there’s one of a Henry Heath from Wolverhampton that was made in 1916, whilst ’e was a prisoner of war during the Great War out in Germany, and where ’e reads the Parable of the Prodigal Son – all well worth a listen.
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DavidGrain
master brummie
Another example of splitting monosyllable words into two syllables is in the Black Country where road is pronounced ro-ad. I have noticed this is more prevalent in the Wednesbury area
Bobowler
knowlegable brummie
’Ow do muckers. Right then, I trust everyone’ll bear with me whilst I try an’ ge’ t’the bottom of the Shakespearean pronunciation of ‘dignity’ an’ ‘memory’, so that they rhyme with ‘die’. In order t’do this we ’ave t’turn to the research of David Crystal, Honorary Professor of Linguistics at Bangor University, who’s investigated the language used in the works of Shakespeare an’ published a number of books on this, including, with his son Ben Crystal, Shakespeare’s Words: A Glossary & Language Companion, an’ most recently The Oxford Dictionary of Original Shakespearean Pronunciation, which only came out this year!
Anyroad, Professor Crystal asserts that, during the Elizabethan period, when Shakespeare was writing, the last sound of words like ‘die’, ‘dignity’ an’ ‘memory’ were all said as though they contained the diphthong ‘əɪ’, an’ so would, indeed, ’ave rhymed with each other. If we look agen at the map from The Linguistic Atlas of England, which I put up in a previous post, it will be seen that the Survey of English Dialects found that ‘əi’ was used in the traditional pronunciation of ‘died’ across Herefordshire an’ pretty much half of Worcestershire, as well as in a few other places in the Country.
As to the actual pronunciation of ‘əi’ this would be summut like ‘ui’, where y’d say the ‘u’ like ‘uh’ and the ‘i’ like ‘ee’ but run them together quickly. I think this might be what Nico was talkin’ about with ’is grandparents’ pronunciation of Droitwich as ‘Dryte-wich’. This is obviously different, if similar, to the Black Country ‘ai’, which, as noted before, is like the standard production of ‘eye’, an’ the diphthong ‘ɔi’, which is like when you call out to someone ‘oi!’, an’ looks as though it might be the Brummagem equivalent.
It mus’ be said ’ere that David Crystal makes no claim that ’is Dictionary represents Shakespeare’s own dialect, merely the early English pronunciation current at the time, or ‘Original Production’ (OP) as ’e terms it. Indeed on Shakespeare’s speech Professor Crystal says “We know nothing about how Shakespeare himself spoke, though we can conjecture that his accent would have been a mixture of Warwickshire and London.” Lastly, there’s a video with David an’ Ben Crystal talkin’ about this OP, an’ the value of performing Shakespeare’s plays in it, in case anyone wants t’take a look!
Well, that’s it – ’ope this is of interest to ya David??
Anyroad, Professor Crystal asserts that, during the Elizabethan period, when Shakespeare was writing, the last sound of words like ‘die’, ‘dignity’ an’ ‘memory’ were all said as though they contained the diphthong ‘əɪ’, an’ so would, indeed, ’ave rhymed with each other. If we look agen at the map from The Linguistic Atlas of England, which I put up in a previous post, it will be seen that the Survey of English Dialects found that ‘əi’ was used in the traditional pronunciation of ‘died’ across Herefordshire an’ pretty much half of Worcestershire, as well as in a few other places in the Country.
As to the actual pronunciation of ‘əi’ this would be summut like ‘ui’, where y’d say the ‘u’ like ‘uh’ and the ‘i’ like ‘ee’ but run them together quickly. I think this might be what Nico was talkin’ about with ’is grandparents’ pronunciation of Droitwich as ‘Dryte-wich’. This is obviously different, if similar, to the Black Country ‘ai’, which, as noted before, is like the standard production of ‘eye’, an’ the diphthong ‘ɔi’, which is like when you call out to someone ‘oi!’, an’ looks as though it might be the Brummagem equivalent.
It mus’ be said ’ere that David Crystal makes no claim that ’is Dictionary represents Shakespeare’s own dialect, merely the early English pronunciation current at the time, or ‘Original Production’ (OP) as ’e terms it. Indeed on Shakespeare’s speech Professor Crystal says “We know nothing about how Shakespeare himself spoke, though we can conjecture that his accent would have been a mixture of Warwickshire and London.” Lastly, there’s a video with David an’ Ben Crystal talkin’ about this OP, an’ the value of performing Shakespeare’s plays in it, in case anyone wants t’take a look!
Well, that’s it – ’ope this is of interest to ya David??
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DavidGrain
master brummie
Thanks Bobowler. I did say that you were very knowledgeable about language. An expert is someone who, if he does not know something, knows where to look it up.
I Am Nico
master brummie
I really like the recordings Bobowler. A student recorded my mum at the Hillfields Historical Society, Coventry much to the members' disgust as she was from around Stourbrigde. I can hear bits of my grandparents on your tapes and my great grandmother in them though they spoke differently. I was telling an ex Brummie colleague about Stourbridge and she said "ooh yowm posh. And Wollaston where gran came from was very posh. Is it or was it? I recall my Nan trying to tell someone you say, King Swinford not Kings Winford. For Kingswinford. And THE Lye etc etc. When you mentioned Himley I can hear her saying Imley All and Eye Gut Common (Highgate) and Odnam (Audnam) no wonder I had a job finding it to show my partner.
DavidGrain
master brummie
Just a brief note. Himley Hall was the home of the Earls of Dudley who owned much of the western Black Country. Then it became a divisional office for the National Coal Board. I think it is now owned by Dudley Council who use it as an education centre.
I Am Nico
master brummie
Good to know they are keeping it though not in its original use which is happening a lot I find.
I Am Nico
master brummie
Ar, a good idea, son! I am pleased to know, bab, that people think we still have un, eh kid.
I Am Nico
master brummie
I had to do something very similar, with my mate's 88 year old granny, from Trim, who lived in Dublin since she was married, whom I was visiting. A feather blew across her floor to which I said I thought it was a mouse. Gran couldn't understand my English take on 'mouse' as I said it over and over....and over. Then my mate was shouting in his best Dublin, "a mehw wuss Gran, a mehw wuss!." Eventually she screamed and then tried to get up while we struggled to tell her it was only a feather! It was funny, at the time. She used to say, of me, "I dow - unt know what that man's sayin'... but oy loy uk him!"
Bobowler
knowlegable brummie
’Ow do Nico, glad y’liked the recordin’s, there’s another good un of an Aubrey Walton of Perry Common which is a bostin’ comparison to that of Harry Phillips from Small Heath I put up before. I’d ’ave said the former is more like what I think a northern Brummie sounds like, as y’d expect give where ’e was from. Then, for examples of more contemporary Brummagem accents, there’s Don Eyre takin’ t’a Roy Johnston, from the BBC’s ‘Listening Project’ of 2012, an’ summut from YouTube entitled “A Brummie Accent”, which touches on stereotypin’ an’ prejudice towards Brummie.
As Stephen said in an earlier post on ’ere, there’s more than one Brummie accent, or rather different shades of Brummie, as the various recordin’s show. The same’s true of the Black Country an’ all of course, an’ then there’s what looks like this spread of Brummie an’ Black Country tones out of their traditional strong ’olds. There’s a nice recordin’ of a John Smith from Kidderminster on the Millennium Memory Bank, who sounds a little Brummie t’me, an’ which is a good contrast to that of a Mr Robbins of Hartlebury, which en’t that far from Kidderminster, an’ was made for the Survey of English Dialects, but where ’e sounds so much more ‘rustic’ .
Interestin’ about yer Stourbridge-born mom bein’ recorded by Hillfields Historical Society Nico, though I couldn’t tell ya if Stourbridge is posh or not, let alone about Wollaston – not my neck o’the woods I’m afraid! I den’t know they say “the Lye”, so ’ave learnt summut there, mind I was familiar with “King Swinford” as the ‘proper’ way of sayin’ ‘Kingswinford’. Anyroad, like I say, glad y’ve found things of interest mucker. By the way, I enjoyed readin’ the story about yer friend’s Irish gran an’ the “mehw wuss”!!
As Stephen said in an earlier post on ’ere, there’s more than one Brummie accent, or rather different shades of Brummie, as the various recordin’s show. The same’s true of the Black Country an’ all of course, an’ then there’s what looks like this spread of Brummie an’ Black Country tones out of their traditional strong ’olds. There’s a nice recordin’ of a John Smith from Kidderminster on the Millennium Memory Bank, who sounds a little Brummie t’me, an’ which is a good contrast to that of a Mr Robbins of Hartlebury, which en’t that far from Kidderminster, an’ was made for the Survey of English Dialects, but where ’e sounds so much more ‘rustic’ .
Interestin’ about yer Stourbridge-born mom bein’ recorded by Hillfields Historical Society Nico, though I couldn’t tell ya if Stourbridge is posh or not, let alone about Wollaston – not my neck o’the woods I’m afraid! I den’t know they say “the Lye”, so ’ave learnt summut there, mind I was familiar with “King Swinford” as the ‘proper’ way of sayin’ ‘Kingswinford’. Anyroad, like I say, glad y’ve found things of interest mucker. By the way, I enjoyed readin’ the story about yer friend’s Irish gran an’ the “mehw wuss”!!
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I Am Nico
master brummie
Nan also called Tipton, Tip'n. She had a saying Arm gooin' ta see Tip'n run but she didn't know where it originated. She would use that not to tell me where she WAS gooin' . With the facility of Google maps I thought I would see if my families' houses were still standing. Stood standin' to quote Nan. I trawled the maps but I could not find Olwen Street. I tried Olwyn and Olwin. My mum called it Olwen also. So I read all the street names. It is spelt Alwyn! I have never heard anyone else call Brum Burnymung either have you Bobowler? Or the Old Cat Pub, The old Cat yer Mother in Law.
DavidGrain
master brummie
A lot of people say Burningum. I did when I was young until I learned better. When I was a child I spake as a child.
I even heard a former Lord Mayor say it and he wasn't a native Brummie.
I even heard a former Lord Mayor say it and he wasn't a native Brummie.
I Am Nico
master brummie
One of my bosses from Nuneaton said pacific when she meant specific but the standard of education of employees plummeted over the years. That's not being snobby that's fact in that the most basic of schools taught you at one time how to speak properly. My stepdaugter's stepdaughter was enraged because one of her teachers called her a skank. I had to ask what it meant. He was not reprimanded either. I don't know if that is a modern 'street talk' word or Brummie or Cov or what.
P'S.My Droitwich relation says bosted.
My maternal family said dewn for down. All good stuff mostly ay it.
P'S.My Droitwich relation says bosted.
My maternal family said dewn for down. All good stuff mostly ay it.
Hi Nic
Hope you are well as we are here in Worcestershire
Here are a couple of true brummie words for you
Achully,-----actually I Think You Will Find These Interesting
Backerapper--- a loud fire work such as a bang'
Balmpot'--- someone whose is habit daft
Flummuxed---- confused
Pitherin,,--- someone who is doing things that are aimless or filling time
Saft---- a daft person,as in Don't be shaft,
Stop Gawping, the brummie way of staring open-mouth
From the west midlands, Weiss middleuns
Writ-wrote' as in I''writ it down
I'll av a Mackay sun,droi woit' woin'' arfa bitta and points moild---
What you might order in a pub,
Hope you are well as we are here in Worcestershire
Here are a couple of true brummie words for you
Achully,-----actually I Think You Will Find These Interesting
Backerapper--- a loud fire work such as a bang'
Balmpot'--- someone whose is habit daft
Flummuxed---- confused
Pitherin,,--- someone who is doing things that are aimless or filling time
Saft---- a daft person,as in Don't be shaft,
Stop Gawping, the brummie way of staring open-mouth
From the west midlands, Weiss middleuns
Writ-wrote' as in I''writ it down
I'll av a Mackay sun,droi woit' woin'' arfa bitta and points moild---
What you might order in a pub,
I Am Nico
master brummie
Hello Asty, all fine here just picking myself up after the referendum vote. Good Gom! Yow cudda knocked me dewn with a feather! Well damn my 'ooray! Bu@@er my rag! (Londoner used to say that) but wussa things 'appen at sea.
A bottle a Nourishin' please, (and if the glass was not filled up) 'as the tram gone past? Arl ave one an 'all, (ee ay backud at comin' forrad. )
Best Wishes, Nico.
Peg Monkey
master brummie
Hi Folks - an important topic for discussion:
Regards,
Peg.
PS How did I respond to the Guy from Dorset? I did my best to take his remarks constructively and replied: Surely the most important thing is we are clearly understood?
Regards,
Peg.
PS How did I respond to the Guy from Dorset? I did my best to take his remarks constructively and replied: Surely the most important thing is we are clearly understood?
Radiorails
master brummie
I have the feeling this has been mention beforehand. So, to put a cat amongst pigeons I offer the following definition. I do have to mention that not being a 'Brummie', being born south of the City in Warwickshire, I can therefore say that I have no dog in this fight. 
A description is from Wiki. (I did try for other reports but found no simple, easy to read one).
Birmingham's boundaries were expanded at several times during the 19th and 20th centuries.
Birmingham was incorporated as a municipal borough in 1838. The borough initially included the parishes of Birmingham and Edgbaston and part of the parish of Aston. In 1889, the municipal borough of Birmingham was reconstituted as a county borough.
It was expanded in 1891 under the City of Birmingham Extension Order by adding Harborne from Staffordshire and Balsall Heath from Worcestershire, as well as Saltley, a further part of Aston parish. Quinton in Worcestershire was added in 1909.[1]
1911 saw a large expansion under the Greater Birmingham Scheme, with the addition of Aston Manorand Erdington from Warwickshire, Handsworth from Staffordshire, and Yardley and the greater part of King's Norton and Northfield from Worcestershire. Perry Barr in Staffordshire was added in 1928.[2] In 1931, parts of the parishes of Minworth, Castle Bromwich, Sheldon and a tiny part of Solihull were added, including the area of Castle Vale, then known as Berwood.
Birmingham was reconstituted on 1 April 1974, under the Local Government Act 1972, as a metropolitan district, which covered both the former county borough of Birmingham, and the municipal borough of Sutton Coldfield.
Given the long history of the City a cut off point has to be decided somewhere along its timeline. It is my proposition that the 1911 Greater Birmingham scheme extending the cities boundaries should be considered true 'Brummie' territory. The subsequent 1928 addition and those afterwards are not, in my view, eligible. However another proposition might be within the circle of the famous Inner Circle 8 bus route. I might mention that my airplane flight is already booked.
A description is from Wiki. (I did try for other reports but found no simple, easy to read one).
Birmingham's boundaries were expanded at several times during the 19th and 20th centuries.
Birmingham was incorporated as a municipal borough in 1838. The borough initially included the parishes of Birmingham and Edgbaston and part of the parish of Aston. In 1889, the municipal borough of Birmingham was reconstituted as a county borough.
It was expanded in 1891 under the City of Birmingham Extension Order by adding Harborne from Staffordshire and Balsall Heath from Worcestershire, as well as Saltley, a further part of Aston parish. Quinton in Worcestershire was added in 1909.[1]
1911 saw a large expansion under the Greater Birmingham Scheme, with the addition of Aston Manorand Erdington from Warwickshire, Handsworth from Staffordshire, and Yardley and the greater part of King's Norton and Northfield from Worcestershire. Perry Barr in Staffordshire was added in 1928.[2] In 1931, parts of the parishes of Minworth, Castle Bromwich, Sheldon and a tiny part of Solihull were added, including the area of Castle Vale, then known as Berwood.
Birmingham was reconstituted on 1 April 1974, under the Local Government Act 1972, as a metropolitan district, which covered both the former county borough of Birmingham, and the municipal borough of Sutton Coldfield.
Given the long history of the City a cut off point has to be decided somewhere along its timeline. It is my proposition that the 1911 Greater Birmingham scheme extending the cities boundaries should be considered true 'Brummie' territory. The subsequent 1928 addition and those afterwards are not, in my view, eligible. However another proposition might be within the circle of the famous Inner Circle 8 bus route. I might mention that my airplane flight is already booked.
Lady Penelope
master brummie
Peg Monkey, Your post #144 - I understand what you are saying but must beg to differ. Accents are not decided on merely by place of birth but who brought you up and who you mix with. My family has been in Birmingham (Deritend) since at least 1402 but I don't suppose they spoke like me (especially the men...). I was born in north Birmingham and my husband in east Birmingham. We have different accents (I say joint and toy, he says jynt and tie). I'm always amazed at the lovely variety that Birmingham gives us. My mother was born and grew up in Aston but didn't have a strong accent neither did my dad who was born near Salford Bridge.
PS. Best colour for twin sets??
PS. Best colour for twin sets??
Smudger
master brummie
I never had a brummy accent, whereas my brother is really broad brummy ( my wife can`t understand half of what he says ) & one of my sisters has a delightful accent, "yo alroit bab" I was a wages clerk when i left school so i don`t think a brummy accent would have gone down well with some of the snobs in the office.
brenda barr
master brummie
My brother never had a brummie accent, he was in the RNAS for 22years but he always said when ever l opened my mouth everyone knew where l came from,,,,now l have a little Texas mixed in but the brummie always comes through..Brenda
Peg Monkey
master brummie
I have the feeling this has been mention beforehand. So, to put a cat amongst pigeons I offer the following definition. I do have to mention that not being a 'Brummie', being born south of the City in Warwickshire, I can therefore say that I have no dog in this fight.
A description is from Wiki. (I did try for other reports but found no simple, easy to read one).
Birmingham's boundaries were expanded at several times during the 19th and 20th centuries.
Birmingham was incorporated as a municipal borough in 1838. The borough initially included the parishes of Birmingham and Edgbaston and part of the parish of Aston. In 1889, the municipal borough of Birmingham was reconstituted as a county borough.
It was expanded in 1891 under the City of Birmingham Extension Order by adding Harborne from Staffordshire and Balsall Heath from Worcestershire, as well as Saltley, a further part of Aston parish. Quinton in Worcestershire was added in 1909.[1]
1911 saw a large expansion under the Greater Birmingham Scheme, with the addition of Aston Manorand Erdington from Warwickshire, Handsworth from Staffordshire, and Yardley and the greater part of King's Norton and Northfield from Worcestershire. Perry Barr in Staffordshire was added in 1928.[2] In 1931, parts of the parishes of Minworth, Castle Bromwich, Sheldon and a tiny part of Solihull were added, including the area of Castle Vale, then known as Berwood.
Birmingham was reconstituted on 1 April 1974, under the Local Government Act 1972, as a metropolitan district, which covered both the former county borough of Birmingham, and the municipal borough of Sutton Coldfield.
Given the long history of the City a cut off point has to be decided somewhere along its timeline. It is my proposition that the 1911 Greater Birmingham scheme extending the cities boundaries should be considered true 'Brummie' territory. The subsequent 1928 addition and those afterwards are not, in my view, eligible. However another proposition might be within the circle of the famous Inner Circle 8 bus route. I might mention that my airplane flight is already booked.
Inner Circle 8 Route? Doesn't alter my status, but you may need to going into hiding - have you recalculated the epicentre?
Peg.
Peg Monkey
master brummie
Hi Lady P, comments duly noted. Twin Sets? For the info on that take a trip over to the Lodge Road, The Flat thread, late posts.
Peg.