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Origins of the Brummie accent

How true Mike.
I went to Himley and it was very broad, Stourton has a nice accent, Stourbridge was stronger. The Lye and Gornall and Kinver and Dudley all different and strong.
I met a lady once and I couldn't work out her accent till she told me she was Parisien but had picked up her husband's lilt from Kingswinford. Please note King Swinford not Kings Winford as TV announcers often get wrong.
 
mike jenks said:
Hi
It all depends where you early years as a Child that formulates a lot of your accent.
My old mate from Land Rover now gone formulae was.
A true Brummie accent and all starts from the Bull Ring.
Moving North the change will gradually till say once you get to Walsall its completely gone.
Moving West as others have said its light in Selly Oak
Moving East Nico has given a true interpretation. Having worked in Coventry for years there is no Brummie there except me.
Clearly South by the time you leave Acocks Green in Solihull its virtually gone
Listening to conversation in Redditch there is a fair amount of Brummie from the huge movements of Brummies from
the clearances in the 50,s to Redditch New Town.
My Son works in Dundee and they are amazed up there with the Brummie.
Like here there are many dialects. Dundonian Scots is different to Glaswegian
and Edinburgh has another version. We aint alone

Mike Jenks
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There used to be till the Evening Telegraph was depleted the Standard Triumph flattened and you get the odd lost Brummie looking for the way back to the Station.
 
My old regiment, (The Queen's Own Hussars), recruited in the West Midlands and the predominant accent was "Brummie", of one sort or another.
I knocked about with quite a few Coventry blokes in our squadron and once remarked on how there was a certain "Geordie" lilt to they way they spoke, especially when they called people "Marra". I was reliably informed that in days gone by a lot of Durham miners settled in the Cov area to work in the local pits and left their mark on the accent of the city.
A bloke from Smethwick called me "Brum".
I'm not convinced that the Brummie accent fades out at certain places. For example, I never really noticed a marked change in the way people spoke until I got to Evesham.
 
I have a relative who lived in Stratford on Avon for a long time. She has a Brummie twang now, more than her brother who lives in Droitwich, who has a soft Brummie twang. Her other brother from Droitwich has no Brummie twang at all, he used to live in Worcester. Lots of people acros the UK came to Coventry for the pit work and during the war. As they must have come to Birmingham. I have never heard of Marra. What does that mean Baz?
I think you pick up what your parents speak or who you live with and work alongside of.
I have heard Brummy in Evesham and Button Oak.
I just remembered the other of my Nan's sayings. My partner was dressing the Christmas tree and she kept standing in front of the TV and I heard my Nan's voice booming 'shift yerself yow ay made o' glass'.
 
Some lines from Shakespear's Sonnet no.94

The summer's flower is to the summer sweet,
Though to it self, it only live and die,
But if that flower with base infection meet,
The basest weed outbraves his dignity:

A sonnet has a strict rhyming scheme and if it does not comply it is not a sonnet. Who but someone from the West Midlands would rhyme dignity with die? That is the best argument against those who claim Shakespear did not write his plays.

 
I say me old mocker or mockeroonie but I don't kow where I picked that up from.
I have notcd severla poems rhyming the way David mentions and old songs.
Wind pronounced and winde.
I wonder what the Brummiw accent sounded like in Shakespeare's day?
Heard Brummie in Henley In Arden, Kings Coughton and Alcester.
 
maypolebaz said:
I always took it to have the same meaning as "mate" or "mucker", Nico.
I never heard anyone else, apart from the Coventry blokes, use the expression.
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I have only heard marra as in stuffed marra. Or it dont marra. I have heard the F word used in strictly friendly terms as rhyming with mucker too used to towards me many times at work at the start of the week or if I had not seen someone in a ling while. How are you me old....etc etc. Also the cockney how are you me old cock sparra, maybe that's where marra comes from. My boss used to say how are you mo cock.
My dad never used any of these and he was Cov born and bred four generations so far that I have gone back. But one grandad of his was a Brummie.
 
Brummie great grandad possibly born inBrearley St Ladywood. Or reg districts St Paul, Stephen and George.
 
My son moved to work in Bournemouth and live in Poole about seven years back. The folks down there immeadiately say he is from Birmingham and regard his accent as distinctive, but when he comes up to visit folks up here say he has "got posh" and speaks more like a southerner. I think it is more to do with who you work with and socialise that influence how ones accent might change.
 
Nico said:
I have only heard marra as in stuffed marra. Or it dont marra. I have heard the F word used in strictly friendly terms as rhyming with mucker too used to towards me many times at work at the start of the week or if I had not seen someone in a ling while. How are you me old....etc etc. Also the cockney how are you me old cock sparra, maybe that's where marra comes from. My boss used to say how are you mo cock.
My dad never used any of these and he was Cov born and bred four generations so far that I have gone back. But one grandad of his was a Brummie.
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"Marra" is definitely a geordie word. True geordies have a language that`s barely English & the first time i heard a geordie in the army i couldn`t understand a word, but like Brummies they`re very friendly ( once you grasp what they`re saying!!


Remember when, the sound of little feet, was the music we danced to week to week.
 
Well thanks for that Smudger, I was beginning to think I'd got it wrong. That ties in nicely with what I'd heard about the Durham miners too, (#63).
It was hard to understand what Geordies were saying, until they slowed down. Not many of them made Signaller though !
 
Are we not straying into the 'Brummie sayings & language' territory rather than 'Origins Of The Brummie Accent'? That said I cannot accept that any reference to the 'F' word fits either as it is surely not unique to Brum or even The Midlands?

The discussion on 'Marra' is one that interests me so I may move it to the above thread. My Dad or Mom used to talk of a song that went 'A Marra's a Banana's Uncle etc. Cant recall the rest but it was one of the nonsense songs penned I assume in the 1930's. 'Marra' I know is used by Geordies and possibly Tynesiders for Mate but feel it has various meanings in different parts.
 
I was typing this and about to post when I noticed Bernard had commented about the drift off topic - anyway having typed it I'll sneak it in !!

When I worked abroad we often wondered what foreigners made of our 'Brummie' accents and were surprised to find that most of them did not notice anything different. Most Germans I worked with said they did not really notice anything unusual and their regional accents did not seem noticeable to me apart from different words some of them used. Japanese and Russians I met certainly did not seem to notice anything although one Russian lady interpreter argued that we were using the wrong words, but we told her we had invented the language and could use it how we liked !
I could detect different accents across America and folks from northern states thought we were Australians while folks from the south just loved our accents as we did theirs.
 
oldMohawk said:
I was typing this and about to post when I noticed Bernard had commented about the drift off topic - anyway having typed it I'll sneak it in !!
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No need for any sneaking on your part this is the first post 'on topic' for a while.

Thanks
 
When my exhusband worked on the buses in the 60s he had friends from Northern Ireland and they called him Mucker,
from the Gaelic 'Mochara' 'best friend'
 
There was a lady phoned in to the Jeremy Vine show today an octegenarian, from Elmdon, she spoke what I imagine to be proper Brummie. About the TV programme, Benefit Street as filmed in Brum. I only saw the trailer on it but I thought some of them had funny accents, and some were very broad.
My Elmdon born cousin is very broad too.
 
Nico said:
There was a lady phoned in to the Jeremy Vine show today an octegenarian, from Elmdon, she spoke what I imagine to be proper Brummie. About the TV programme, Benefit Street as filmed in Brum. I only saw the trailer on it but I thought some of them had funny accents, and some were very broad.
My Elmdon born cousin is very broad too.
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How I wish somebody would define what is meant by a 'Real Brummie Accent' for me. I grew up on the borders of Billesely and Hall Green, Local school followed by 'Big school in Kings Heath and then to Handsworth Tech; worked initially in Balsall Heath then Kings Heath. On to Irving St (A T Gittins) then to Lucas Gt Hampton Street followed by Gt King Street and heard a broad variety of Brummie Accents - all genuine all so different.

It should also be noted that speech over the telephone is nto as we would hear it if face to face due to the limited frequency range that is used.

Mother's side of family from Erdington and Father's side were from just over the border in Bromsgrove District near the Maypole.
 
HI BERNARD
WITH A BROAD SOUNDING VOICE AND SPEECH AND THE EXPRESSION THEY USED ESPECIALY THE OLDER GENERATIONS WHICH WHEN SPEAKING WITH OUT
GRAMOUR OR TYPING LIKE ME WITH OUT THE DOTS AND COMMERS ; AND NOT IN AN ENGLISH SPEAKING MANNOR TO OTHER PEOPLE
MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THE MIDDLE CLASS WOULD HAVE CALLED THEM COMMON;
BUT ANYWAY HERE IS A COUPLE OF EXPRESSIONS OF YESTER YEARS THIS WAS A STREET CALLED BLEWS STREET WHICH KEPT THE BRUMMIES ALIVE;
ONE PERSON SAYING ; LETS GO AROUND OUR WACK; THEY MEANT LETS GO AROUND TO OUR HOUSE ; ND THATS YOUR WHACK ; MEANING THATS ALL YOUR GETING
LUMP IT OR LIKE OR TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT;
THE WORD FACE GOT A BATTERING AS WELL; FROM ALTERNATIVE ENGLISH TOO;
REMEMBER THE WORD FIZZOG ; CLOCK ; DIAL ; AND KISSA ; THEN THERE WAS ; WHAT HAVE YOU DROPPED YOUR JIB FOR ME ?,
Which meant you was displeased with me also sarta and safta ,see you th;sarta meant see you this afternoon;
just like our kid or our whench ;
thats what the true brummie speakes like and that bernard is a little triffel of the brummie is about and the vocabere is still in excisting in older people like mysel and speak as you find i have traveled the breast of the coutry in my life met the posh ones and the proffessors and high ranks in our society and i still speak the tongue and never will i am proud of being a brummie i pick up this through growing up in the tough areas of aston
my mother came from society and spoke very fluent english she had to because of her parents put herto private education when she was four years old never mixed with the council kids nor sec schols until she was older and fell for one which was agaist thee rules but i wl not go further on that subject except that her parents
was one of the high society and rich and they shipped my oldes sister off to a posh school [ boarding ] to be like our mom
And our mom shoved a pencil into our hands at three years old before stating schol at five upper thomas street and i was top of the classes hen but as i got older i slipped into the brummy lingo no matter wher i go today i still have that accent and stand out like a mile and i am proud to be a brummy have a nice bernard ; astonian;;;
 
I wish I could hear you all speaking but I imagine that I can and you all sound different in my head. When I say proper Brummie it is not one particular accent as I have heard several, but they are broad and colourful and rich as Astonian says. Like Carl Chinn as an example. I have also heard Boozer used for mouth. And Goozer for a kiss. Gouzeuil (probably spelt totally wrong )is old Norman when you kiss, say a little child on the neck or elewhere and it makes a loud noise. And Boozshoo, old Norman for kiss. My Astonian friend calls her husband by his Christian name adding Bab immediatley after as if it is part of his name.
People have their telephone voices often too don't they. Nan's friend put H's where thay arn't like hour Haudrey.
Nan's dad paid and sent her to grammar school but she wanted to be with her mates so she just messed about apart from in Sport, music and bible class (as you got a trip to the seasdie and she had never see the sea till aged 15). I think we all slip because we want to fit it. It's hard being different at school. I tried fitting in at about 13 and carried on till I was about 30. I am back to the old me now. So if youw dow lioike mey yow can goo an' float off!
 
It strange how accents change in areas of Brum as well as time. I am fortunate to be in contact with a lot of elderly Brummies on a daily basis, from different areas of Brum. I find some of these lovely old folk have a very "strong" accent which transports me back to my childhood. This makes me realise how the accents have changed. I have one lady aged 93 who originated from Alcester, but moved to Sutton then Tamworth. She is a lovely lady but reminds me of the tough ladies who ruled the roost. I could listen to her talk all day. I heard the lady on the Jeremy Vine show talking about Benefit Street. She was in her 80's and spoke beautifully, with a lot of sense. She was mortified as her grandfather lived in the street, she remembered it as it was....so very sad.
 
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I love Baz's term ferocious accent. I had an aunty living in Quinton but I don't know where she was born, she worked at Cadburys I know. I have never heard an accent like hers. It's like she never drew breath and I used to have to sort of tune in to her and get my bearings before I could understand. She had a high pitched voice very sharp snapping and spoke very fast. If I didn't know I would have thought she was angry. But she was the kindest person very hard working, always had bad legs. Always laughing. Her sister spoke as slow as the other spoke fast with the whine that comedians make fun of. She wasn't short tongued but both she and her husband had a sort of soft lisp so that they sort of blew through their lips when they spoke. Bet I don't make sense do I? But it was a Brummy lisp. Each word end had that sort of blow at the end. All the words like tip trip, bill were accentuated. treep teep beel. They called me what sounded to me like Neek eyeh. The H being the blow.
My uncle was the Brummy author Kathleen Dayus's brother so wherever she came from. I read all the books. Never met her as they were Nan's cousins but I, in respect called them aunty and uncle as was the custom then.
 
Saw an advert a couple times on the Drama channel on TV yesterday advertising Hotels 4 U a hotel booking agency. They advertised it as "Otels fer yo". Sounded more Black Country to me than Brummie.
 
I know they speak Brumish in Cradley. My mate a follower of Brandon Bees motorbike racing went to Cradley and he had the office in fits when he imitated a Cradley woman's version of Jowlaine. I also heard a Dublin woman's version of Send in the Clowans. Remember that little Brummie? lad's rendition dressed in a rabbit suit on Tiswas of Broyt Oyes.
 
Nico this post is as off topic as it is incorrect. Folk in 'Cradley Heath' would be as shocked as I am to read that they spoke a form of Brumish - a word by the way I have never come across in all of my 70 years in this area. Cradley Heath shares the Black Country Dialect which though having some words common with Brummie has a totally separate accent of which they are justly proud.

Now can we get and stay on topic.

I apologise for my own drift 'Off Topic' which I will sort out soon.
 
I recognise I drifted off topic so have now removed my posts and some that were posted in response. Private Message sent to Baz in answer to his questions to me.
 
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Ooops, sorry. Point taken !

Getting back "on topic",(I hope!).

The variations in the accent found in different areas of Brum can be heard in Jasper Carrott's comedy.
My own accent, (B'ham 14), I think was similar to Jasper's.
The accent I liked to hear was in the monologue he did on the time when, as Brummagem supporters, he & his mate went to a Man U game. "Ay, Carrutt ! They ent gorreny cowin' Bovril!"
The accent I'd hate to have is the one in "Funky moped". "Me Mom woont let me fix it in the kitchen so I 'ave ter tek it in the gardin".
 
Looking at discussion elsewhere it seems most folk see it as a bad attempt at a 'Black Country' accent. I had not seen it but do know a Scottish friend loathes it.
 
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