Richard Dye
master brummie
These are great photos Viv!
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New Street City Centre Birmingham
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BrummieGeoff
Sparkhill Lad
I've been doing something similar Viv.
I think this updated image shows the street numbering from an 1849 directory, and also where Bennett's Hill and Christchurch Passage were cut.
By that date the Panorama site had been taken over by the "Society of Arts & Government School of Design".
I wonder if the "scaffolding" shown on the left edge of the picture is from the construction of Christ Church ? .... according to Wikipedia, construction finished in 1816.
Happy to be corrected if I've misinterpreted.
I think this updated image shows the street numbering from an 1849 directory, and also where Bennett's Hill and Christchurch Passage were cut.
By that date the Panorama site had been taken over by the "Society of Arts & Government School of Design".
I wonder if the "scaffolding" shown on the left edge of the picture is from the construction of Christ Church ? .... according to Wikipedia, construction finished in 1816.
Happy to be corrected if I've misinterpreted.
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By 1829 Miss Gottwaltz was coming in for criticism regarding her efficiency. Looks like discrimination was at play to some extent.
In The Directory of Birmingham 1835, the Post Office is being listed as Bennetts Hill, obviously because of occupying the corner with New Street.
Source: British Newspaper Archive
In The Directory of Birmingham 1835, the Post Office is being listed as Bennetts Hill, obviously because of occupying the corner with New Street.
Source: British Newspaper Archive
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Further developing Geoff's labelling in post #542. Was this the site of #53 ? It's next to the mail coach gateway. #53 New Street was a house occupied by Mr C.Grafton (or Graston ?) in 1813. (This building was labelled as Dore Boot & Shoe Maker on the 1814 sketch in post #531 ).
A little tricky to be precise here as I'm unsure how much of the mail coach gateway (and possibly building(s)?) would have disappeared to make way for Bennetts Hill.
A little tricky to be precise here as I'm unsure how much of the mail coach gateway (and possibly building(s)?) would have disappeared to make way for Bennetts Hill.
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BrummieGeoff
Sparkhill Lad
It's very difficult to be sure Viv.
Wrightson's 1823 Triennial Directory of Birmingham shows Samuel Dore - Boot & Shoe Maker - at #54 New Street .... so #53 may be the building annotated as "Sheldon Metal Warehouse" in the 1814 sketch.
However, the street numbering appears to have changed by the 1839 edition of that directory when the Post Office is at #54.
I'm also conscious that the notes on the bottom of the 1814 sketch could have been added at a later date, so might not accurately reflect all the occupants in 1814.
So far, I haven't been able to identify the appropriate Judd and Sheldon occupants, but ....
Wrightson's 1818 Triennial Directory of Birmingham lists Samuel Dore - Boot & Shoe Maker; John Newbold - Plumber & Glazier; J H Parker - Panorama; Miss Gottwaltz - Postmistress.
Wrightson's 1823 Triennial Directory of Birmingham also lists John Newbold - Plumber, Glazier & Painter - at #46 New Street.
And James Campbell - Manufacturer and Dealer in Derbyshire Spars - is listed in the 1830 Directory in Temple Street.
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Re the Judd family (William the father and his two sons William and Richard). They were carriers and wharfingers with their own boats and waggons. The New Street address was presumably part of the much wider business. When it was sold in March 1814, the Wagon Warehouse was sold along with a dwelling house (probably adjoining on New Street as no other address was mentioned).
By 1814 they'd been declared bankrupt, but in their time they seem to have had quite a large operation beyond Birmingham. Sounds like they had their own wharf in Birmingham too.
Some news cuttings, may be of interest. Source: British Newspaper Archive
By 1814 they'd been declared bankrupt, but in their time they seem to have had quite a large operation beyond Birmingham. Sounds like they had their own wharf in Birmingham too.
Some news cuttings, may be of interest. Source: British Newspaper Archive
Attachments
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Just for info, and a building that was probably in the 1814 view, is #58. Below is a to let notice from 1814 of "a convenient house and shop". So perhaps a domestic building with a shop front onto New Street ?
Source: British Newspaper Archive
Source: British Newspaper Archive
This sounds like Mr (James) Campbell moved further along New Street (opposite Cannon Street) but decided to return to his old position by the Panorama in 1816. No mention of 'spurs'.
Source: British Newspaper Archive
Source: British Newspaper Archive
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BrummieGeoff
Sparkhill Lad
Good find Viv .... I'm not surprised that James wanted to get rid of that lot before moving!
There is a thread on the post office at https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/threads/new-street-post-offices-until-1873.53903/#post-737595
Two extracts from memories in 1817 recorded in press cutting post #363 on this thread (for full article)
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/threads/new-street-city-centre-birmingham.38783
More questions:
Could this be Mr Campbell noted on the 1814 drawing ?
Mr Dore was a cobbler according to the second extract, occupying a cottage similar to a lodge. Could the 'garden wall' be the one longside the mail coach gateway ?
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/threads/new-street-city-centre-birmingham.38783
More questions:
Could this be Mr Campbell noted on the 1814 drawing ?
Mr Dore was a cobbler according to the second extract, occupying a cottage similar to a lodge. Could the 'garden wall' be the one longside the mail coach gateway ?
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Another cutting with recollections of the section of New Street portrayed in the 1814 drawing. This time it refers to a panoramic map painted 105 years earlier - so 1807.
The Panorama's purpose is explained - trade exhibitions and art displays of local artists.
It also confirms Campbell was next door housing his spar ornaments. Had to look up what this was. (Some info:
Spar ornaments - decorative objects made from minerals, popular in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. created by miners and craftsmen who carved shiny, smooth crystals into shapes. Most were broken up for their mineral value, so now rare. Blue John is a semi-precious stone – a fluorite, or fluorspar – with blue, yellow and purple banding only found in a few of mines in the Castleton area, Derbyshire)
The Hay and Straw warehouse is also mentioned, doubtless in this position to support the fly waggon/coach horses and mail coach horses.
The Post Office is described as a 'pretty white house'. It had an adjoining coach house, which seems to be shown in the drawing in post #544. Must have been demolished between 1807 and 1814 as it isn't included in the 1814 view.
Dore's was a boot and shoe shop, undoubtedly also a cobblers.
Sheldon's metal warehouse is confirmed but nothing else is said about it.
Additionally a pawnbrokers (Aaron's and ... ?) is mentioned.
Source: British Newspaper Archive
The Panorama's purpose is explained - trade exhibitions and art displays of local artists.
It also confirms Campbell was next door housing his spar ornaments. Had to look up what this was. (Some info:
Spar ornaments - decorative objects made from minerals, popular in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. created by miners and craftsmen who carved shiny, smooth crystals into shapes. Most were broken up for their mineral value, so now rare. Blue John is a semi-precious stone – a fluorite, or fluorspar – with blue, yellow and purple banding only found in a few of mines in the Castleton area, Derbyshire)
The Hay and Straw warehouse is also mentioned, doubtless in this position to support the fly waggon/coach horses and mail coach horses.
The Post Office is described as a 'pretty white house'. It had an adjoining coach house, which seems to be shown in the drawing in post #544. Must have been demolished between 1807 and 1814 as it isn't included in the 1814 view.
Dore's was a boot and shoe shop, undoubtedly also a cobblers.
Sheldon's metal warehouse is confirmed but nothing else is said about it.
Additionally a pawnbrokers (Aaron's and ... ?) is mentioned.
Source: British Newspaper Archive
Abraham Aaron's and Lem Flersheim's business was on the corner of Temple Street. The premises with a rear warehouse were up for sale in 1809, so presumably their names were not indicated on the 1814 drawing (and as the writing is unclear for this building, it's hard to tell who were new occupants ). Aaron was putting unredeemed pledges through auction from at least 1802.
Source: British Newspaper Archive
Source: British Newspaper Archive
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BrummieGeoff
Sparkhill Lad
Excellent work Viv.
It looks as though there is another old "panoramic map" view of this part of New Street that we haven't yet found. At first I thought it might be referring to the same sketch, but there are some significant differences in the description (one-storeyed Post Office and adjoining coach-house) so even allowing for mis-reporting that seems unlikely.
You've solved the outstanding question of the building at the bottom of Temple Street .... the sketch extract below clearly shows the "3 balls" sign indicating a pawnbroker, and the text is close enough to "Abraham Aaron & Lem Flersheim" to tie it in with your 1809 newspaper cutting (maybe it was still a pawnbroker's shop in 1814 and Miriam Aaron replaced Abraham??). The 1815 Wrightson's Triennial Directory of Birmingham lists Aaron & Flersheim as Pawnbrokers in New Street.
Other views of the Post Office (examples below, one dated 1824) do show a building attached to the Post office, that could be a coach-house.
It may be that the reported dates for the pictures are not all accurate, or some of the pictures are copies of earlier works with artistic "tweaks"??
It looks as though there is another old "panoramic map" view of this part of New Street that we haven't yet found. At first I thought it might be referring to the same sketch, but there are some significant differences in the description (one-storeyed Post Office and adjoining coach-house) so even allowing for mis-reporting that seems unlikely.
You've solved the outstanding question of the building at the bottom of Temple Street .... the sketch extract below clearly shows the "3 balls" sign indicating a pawnbroker, and the text is close enough to "Abraham Aaron & Lem Flersheim" to tie it in with your 1809 newspaper cutting (maybe it was still a pawnbroker's shop in 1814 and Miriam Aaron replaced Abraham??). The 1815 Wrightson's Triennial Directory of Birmingham lists Aaron & Flersheim as Pawnbrokers in New Street.
Other views of the Post Office (examples below, one dated 1824) do show a building attached to the Post office, that could be a coach-house.
It may be that the reported dates for the pictures are not all accurate, or some of the pictures are copies of earlier works with artistic "tweaks"??
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BrummieGeoff
Sparkhill Lad
Viv : I assume that these extracts have come from the book mentioned by Pedrocut in Post #100 .... "Recollections of New Street, Birmingham in 1817" by Mrs Lucy Benton (1877)? Do you know if any more of it appears online.
Probably were sources from that book Geoff. I've looked again in the newspapers at that extract and at the bottom it says "To be continued'. Shall have a look at later Birmingham Weekly Post editions to see if there were more.
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