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National Service

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Just found this photograph: Royal Signals, January 1952: Intake 52.02; Bitterly cold on Yorkshire Moors. Self is in middle row: 4th from right. Instructors: Sgt Woodward; Cpl Smith; L/Cpl Lyng. We won the intake trophy at the end of the six week basic training course. Had much respect for Sgt Woodward & Cpl Smith. Eddie
 

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I had the same Sargent and corporal 1951 I'm 2nd left sitting.
 

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My Husband was recalling how he wrote home to his Mother and asked her to send some Kit-Kats, she wrote back to ask why he needed cat food!!
rosie.
 
rosie said:
My Husband was recalling how he wrote home to his Mother and asked her to send some Kit-Kats, she wrote back to ask why he needed cat food!!
rosie.
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Rosie, as the late Frank Carson would say "That`s a cracker" BTW where was he stationed, Katmandu?
 
On the obstacle course during basic training. The dreaded rope swing over a wide muddy ditch. An nco would hold the rope & you had to take a run up, take a flying leap at the rope & swing over. Very easy unless the nco would pull the rope away at the last minute & you were grasping at thin air & then face down in the mud bath, much to everyones amusement. At the march back to billet, the muddy one would have to march 3 paces behind the rest of the squad. Every time we went on the obstacle course you`d be wondering if it was your turn for a mud bath.
 
Watched an NCIS show in which a Ghurka used his Kukri, which got me to thinking about some of the "myths" that did the rounds in the army. One was, that Ghurkas would crawl up to the enemy in the dark & feel for the way the boots were laced, & if they weren`t laced up the British army way then the Ghurka would use his Kukri to dispatch the enemy. Almost certainly a load of old cobblers. Another myth was "never accept the third light" when lighting a ciggie or you would get a snipers bullet in the head. Another load of old cobblers?
 
I believe it dates to the Boer War, when Boer snipers would do as Eddie claims. Like all old army stories should be taken lightly, though there is some truth in all these myths.paul
 
Smudger said:
Watched an NCIS show in which a Ghurka used his Kukri, which got me to thinking about some of the "myths" that did the rounds in the army. One was, that Ghurkas would crawl up to the enemy in the dark & feel for the way the boots were laced, & if they weren`t laced up the British army way then the Ghurka would use his Kukri to dispatch the enemy. Almost certainly a load of old cobblers. Another myth was "never accept the third light" when lighting a ciggie or you would get a snipers bullet in the head. Another load of old cobblers?
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Smudger,My older brother Fred (Long gone now) fought with the Ghurkers in Italy. He has told me that story more than once, so it could be true, he even told me that they bring back the enemies left ear of proof of the killing.
All sounds a bit grusome, but could easily be true.
 
During the Malay insurgency of the early 50's, because of the remoteness of the battle grounds, ears were brought back as proof of kills, so a head count could be kept, and I believe a bounty of 1/- was paid per ear to the Malay tribal levies, used as trackers. I also heard of fingers being used as proof of kills in the Mau Mau war. Paul
 
paul stacey said:
During the Malay insurgency of the early 50's, because of the remoteness of the battle grounds, ears were brought back as proof of kills, so a head count could be kept, and I believe a bounty of 1/- was paid per ear to the Malay tribal levies, used as trackers. I also heard of fingers being used as proof of kills in the Mau Mau war. Paul
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I'm glad you mentioned the ears Paul.

We had a bloke in our Battery who'd transferred from the KOYLI. He told us that in Malaya, in the early 60s, they were required to bring back heads taken from guerillas, to prove to the local villagers that the communists were being beaten. Discovering that carrying human heads through the jungle was a bit of a task he said that they got the locals to accept ears as proof instead.

Whenever I passed that story on I allways got funny looks, I'm sure people thought I was making it up !
 
I would say your bloke from the KOYLI, was on the money Baz, the Mau Mau story was related to me years ago by a chap called Harry Hewitt who was an Inspector in the Kenya Police during that period. Paul
 
Thinking back to times long ago, I had a read through and looked at the photos in this thread and thought about the strange times we had.

The tough times, the good times, the laughs, the comradeship, the teamwork, and maybe the first time you walked in Brum wearing uniform.
Many of us were conscripted from 'civvy street' (reluctantly) into a military way of life, while others chose to join up for military service.
We were lucky in a way because most of us avoided the Korean War, the Malayan Insurgency, and the Cold War never became a Hot War.

Looking through the thread it seems that most of us, even the ones conscripted, generally thought it was a good experience.
 
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oldMohawk said:
Thinking back to times long ago, I had a read through and looked at the photos in this thread and thought about the strange times we had.

The tough times, the good times, the laughs, the comradeship, the teamwork, and maybe the first time you walked in Brum wearing uniform.
Many of us were conscripted from 'civvy street' (reluctantly) into a military way of life, while others chose to join up for military service.
We were lucky in a way because most of us avoided the Korean War, the Malayan Insurgency, and the Cold War never became a Hot War.

Looking through the thread it seems that most of us, even the ones conscripted, generally thought it was a good experience.
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It was a good expeience overall, but at the beginning all that screaming & shouting abuse from the instructors really wound me up, especially when
they put their face close up & you get a shower of spittle! Got into trouble a few times for objecting to that. I soon realised that if you complain then they pick on you even more. I wonder if all that shouting abuse still goes on in todays Army? Probably against their human rights .
 
oldMohawk said:
The tough times, the good times, the laughs, the comradeship, the teamwork, and maybe the first time you walked in Brum wearing uniform.
.

Looking through the thread it seems that most of us, even the ones conscripted, generally thought it was a good experience.
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Try walking through Birmingham NOW, in a uniform.

Eddie
 
norfolk brummie said:
Try walking through Birmingham NOW, in a uniform.

Eddie
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Of interest, why?

Admittedly it was 1954/55 when I walked in uniform (RAF - not a National Serviceman) in Birmingham on occasional visits. No issues for me, but then I guess it was only ten years after WW2, so folks had many memories, of one kind or another, of that time.

In the USA, generally, speaking it seems that many go out of their way to thank and honour their servicemen. We copy a lot of what happens Stateside: maybe we could copy this?
 
This is not America, Alan and I think we had better kill this line of argument right now before this thread gets closed by the moderators, but I quite understand Eddie's point.

Maurice
 
Radiorails. You ask why?

I was National Service, Jan 1952-Jan1954, Royal Corps of Signals, and proud of it.

When home on leave in Sparkbrook, I could walk there, quite peacefully, in uniform. Having visited Sparkbrook a few years ago, I doubt that I would be very welcome there now, in uniform.

Sadly, I feel that is a fact of modern life, not just in Birmingham, but in other cities. I salute, and am very supportive, and proud of our modern forces, but the only time they are seen in uniform, in a given situation, is on parade.

There have been instances of uniformed personnel being reminded not to shop in uniform, told not to be seen in public, in uniform.

Those are facts, and I feel it is a sad reflection of life in this country today.

I do not apologise for getting on my 'high horse', but men and women, risk their lives for our country, and I feel the uniform should be treated with respect, and should seen more often in public. It never used to be like this.

Eddie.
 
All the different points of view have there validity's, uniform wearing in public ceased in the 70's with the threat of urban terrorist's, after the two lads were shot dead in Stafford, I was very proud to wear my No2 dress, when out and about. The landscape has changed so much, when National Service was the norm, you saw all sorts around town, Army, RAF, and Navy men and women in military dress. I remember when Kings Cross, and Paddington were crawling with Red Caps, and Snow Drops. You were treated with respect then because we had millions around still from both WW,and their family's. I was brought up in a family where many of my ancestor's had been in the military, and we were always taught by my Dad to respect the American's, and how thankful the UK was for their intervention in both wars, (He was badly wounded at Salerno in 43, and he was picked up by an American military first Aid team), and then spent over a year in an american Military Hospital in Naples. Paul
 
Paul, you must be extremely grateful to the Americans who saved your Dad`s life. On the subject of wearing uniform in public, i was stationed in N/Ireland 66/67 & had no problems wearing my iniform whilst out & about, but fast forward a couple of years & that would be suicide. The carnage of ww2 is staggering. Almost one million UK & American killed, six million Germans, six million poles, & a staggering 24 million Russians. Have we learned any lessons from that? Hope so.
 
I have just read in the news that army instructors are to be banned from swearing at recruits. Whatever next, "will you lovely recruits please come to attention & when you`ve got your breath back would you mind awfully moving off at a nice steady march, please" "And don`t forget to put your name down if you would like sgt/major to read you a bedtime story. Thank you so much for your cooperation" Who needs a nuclear deterrent when we`ve got such a polite army!
 
That's why National Service could never be brought back in this stupidly politically correct era, Smudger. Discipline could never be maintained because of the threat of court action by some lawyer funded by legal aid.

Maurice
 
Don't hold your breath everyone , I don't think it will have any effect on the "Drill Pigs", my son was in Afgahistan with the Paras and they were ordered not to fire even if contacted, if there were any civilians within a quarter of a mile. He told me that this order was totally disregarded. Paul
 
The current TV programme on Royal Navy recruits at HMS Raleigh gives a bit of a glimpse of what the reaction of the current generation is with regard to square-bashing. The reaction to the fiercest b******ing is usually a smirk, if not by the recipient, then by his closest companions. It all looks a bit of a joke to some.

I don't remember ever doing anything other than try to maintain a neutral look at all times, in the hope of not catching anyone's eye. But in our day the biggest terror was having one's life made even more miserable than it was already by various sanctions - jankers, the stopping of some distant 48 hour pass, a few evenings up to the elbows in grease in the Tin Room where the baking trays were scraped and, worst of all, (in the RAF), back-flighting by a week or couple of weeks, thereby extending the misery.

But the difference is, these lads all want to be where they are. Their biggest fear is getting chucked out and thereby losing an attractive career. For me and my NS generation, that's a sanction we would have welcomed as divine deliverance. You wouldn't have seen us for dust!

Chris
 
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Smudger said:
I have just read in the news that army instructors are to be banned from swearing at recruits. Whatever next, "will you lovely recruits please come to attention & when you`ve got your breath back would you mind awfully moving off at a nice steady march, please" "And don`t forget to put your name down if you would like sgt/major to read you a bedtime story. Thank you so much for your cooperation" Who needs a nuclear deterrent when we`ve got such a polite army!
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It appears that they need a Sergeant Wilson from Dads Army!
 
ChrisM
Reading between the lines i guess you didn`t enjoy your national service. I know most conscripts regarded it as a bloody inconvenience, but imo if you ask any conscript about their time in the forces, i reckon most would say they enjoyed it. In my time most of those trying to "work their ticket" were regulars who couldn`t afford the £200 to buy themselves out. I remember one Scots lad who you would hear every week saying " I`m saving up to buy mah saloot" I believe he was still there when i got posted a year later.I hated the army at first but soon realised this was a pretty good way of life, especially if you got an exotic posting or were good at sports.
 
You may well be guessing right, Smudger! Although those recent comments were really about basic training/squarebashing which I imagine everyone loathed.

Attitudes to the other 22 months were a bit more complex.

Chris
 
ChrisM,

The whole thing about National Service was, I think, fear of the unknown. Once we'd been through reception, basic training, the much easier trade training, and settled into our first (maybe our only) real posting, life became quite good for most of us. We had a routine to follow, and provided we didn't break any well known rules, we could sail through the rest of our service without too must trouble. If we had a few abilities or interests like sport, or in my case amateur radio and the Station Band, it could actually become quite enjoyable, we made lots of new friends, and we could even have fun. I, for one, certainly don't regret it.

Maurice
 
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