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National Service

  • Thread starter Thread starter RayD
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don't know what happened to "MaypoleBaz" he's been absent for some time.
Paul

Still here mate, keeping my head down.
Eddie 14's mention of the old flammenwerfer reminds me of a time on Salisbury Plain when our battery was giving a demonstration of the abilities of our guns.
To round off an anti-tank shoot it was decided to add some extra fireworks, so an old car was packed with drums of petrol, oil and charge bags and stood ready down the range.
The shoot came to an end and we stood rubbing our hands in anticipation of a great ball of fire.
The gun fired, we watched the tracer flash into the car and . . . nothing happened !
After the guns had gone we drove down to have a look to find that the round had gone in through the driver's side window and out of the passenger's, missing the petrol altogether.
We were disappointed but the layer was quite happy-he thought he'd missed !
 
Hi Baz, I will tell you a story about mishaps. Many moons ago I was at workshops at Warminster taking my AI trade test for two weeks in anticipation that when the armourer Sgt moved on I would go up to Sgt, that was unusual as a n/s soldier but it was worth a try, they dropped the strength of the camp to an armourer Cpl when he left on his tour of duty. Anyway I had to inspect and fault find and rectify a Browning .500 Anti aircraft weapon with a spider web sight, one hell on a chunk located on a revolving base, the weapons had faults built into them and you had to find them to pass the test. After I had done this it had to be fired to zero it up,I went down to the 30 yd range with the Armourer Sgt Major to set up the weapon in the hut at the firing point, this done we looked for ammo and all we could find was armour piercing so the A.S.M said I think we will be O.K using that but we will go down to the target and see.Just behind the target was a angled steel plate to deflect the rounds into a water tank and save the Lead, this plate was about 1.25 inch thick. Anyway I lined the weapon onto the target and waited the order to fire from the A.S.M "Fire" I let it go the bloody noise was deadly because we were it a tin hut. "Down to the target, when we got there the A.S.M had a shock, the round had gone through the target(in the middle) passed through the steel plate, through the sand and had gone through the 9 inch brick wall at the back and buried itself somewhere in the field. This has not happened Corporal do you understand, I passed.
Dave
 
Hello lads, nice to have you back, read both threads Eddie,Baz, good stories, the L6 Wombat (re-coiless rifle) replaced the L2 Bat, about 1964 and became the main Battalion Anti-Tank armament, so many stories about this weapon, crew 3, driver, layer, observer, first had its own wheel's but later mounted on a "Portee" land rover. It was difficult to handle and had some flaws which continued right up to the issue of the Vigilent/Milan Anti tank rocket launchers. If the the round failed to ignite you had to manually retrieve the round many stories of them detonating whilst being removed. The earl vehicles were not stable enough and some actually flipped over killing the crews. Once when being demonstrated on "Lunaberg heath" one actually exploded, you can imagine there were't many volunteers for Anti tank Company, once on exercise on Salisbury plain one became bogged down, it had a round up whilst being pulled out it was accidently fired and destroyed some-ones chicken houses, no casualty's except some 40 chickens, happy days.
paul
 
Hello lads, nice to have you back, read both threads Eddie,Baz, good stories, the L6 Wombat (re-coiless rifle) replaced the L2 Bat, about 1964 and became the main Battalion Anti-Tank armament, so many stories about this weapon, crew 3, driver, layer, observer, first had its own wheel's but later mounted on a "Portee" land rover. It was difficult to handle and had some flaws which continued right up to the issue of the Vigilent/Milan Anti tank rocket launchers. If the the round failed to ignite you had to manually retrieve the round many stories of them detonating whilst being removed. The earl vehicles were not stable enough and some actually flipped over killing the crews. Once when being demonstrated on "Lunaberg heath" one actually exploded, you can imagine there were't many volunteers for Anti tank Company, once on exercise on Salisbury plain one became bogged down, it had a round up whilst being pulled out it was accidently fired and destroyed some-ones chicken houses, no casualty's except some 40 chickens, happy days.
paul

I remember the Wombat and the Mobat, we always thought they were suicidal because the cloud of debris the back blast threw up made them instantly spottable Paul !
I imagine there would've been a misfire drill to be followed in the case of a round not going off wasn't there ? Certainly a misfire on a gun had to be left alone for a set period of time before anyone went near it.
I remember a misfire when we were in Wales, (can't spell the name of the place) when everybody gingerly passed the offending cartridge up the chain of command, then the REME Gun Fitter tore it apart and unscrewed the primer without batting an eyelid. Only discipline kept us all from scattering like sheep !
 
Hi Baz, Hope you and yours are well, It really was a difficult weapon to handle, there was one for years out side the "School of Infantry" in Warminster Wilts, it had a barrel like a peeled banana, apparently they loaded a spread nose and it detonated in the
barrel, fairly bad news for the bystanders.
paul
 
Baz, read "Squash nose", for "Spread Nose", Just a note we had 2 Staff Sgt's from the Artillery when we first started using them and they instructed us to always dig a 2'x4'x 2' deep ditch about 10' away from firing point to put unexploded shells in for the RAOC to safely destroy. It made laugh about your experience in Wales, its funny but no amount of training can stop the natural desire for self preservation to kick in when faced with what you described, ha, ha.
paul
 
Would that be HESH Paul ?
High Explosive Squash Head was an Anti-Armour round. Not required to penetrate, necessarily but to knock chunks of metal off inside which would really spoil the crew's day.
Give you a blinding headache too !
 
The B.A.T. as it was known(battalion anti tank) was probably the for-runner of the WOMBAT because it also could not be used in wooded areas or on sand, Calibre 3.5 inches 75-100yds lethal area behind, gave your position away as soon as it was fired and elevation could not be increased much as the propulsion blast could kill if it hit the ground and deflected.
In my working life I have installed machines into Ordnance factories and the different Ammo that is manufactured is vast, Baz you spoke of bullets going round inside a tank, you must remember it has to get through some of the thickest plate first and that is done by melting the metal then the bullet inside follows in after, all this is done in mili secs. frightening!!!
Have any of you seen the photo of two bullets head on up the same barrel? It happened in the first world war, a British soldier (Welsh) had a German soldiers bullet enter his rifle as he fired, they met about 6 inches from the muzzle and split his barrel, he was not injured but when I saw the photo he was very lucky. I do not think if it has happened since.

Dave
 
I am sure your right Dave about the BAT, the wombat was 33.33cal I am sure, but like the bat had a massive back flash, yes Baz, the "Squash Nose" was the Hesh round, my Dads beloved first cousin was in the 1st Bat, Grenadier Guards Armoured Div, and (brewed up), just outside Lille in 44, orible way to go!!!!, but you would know all about that being in the Cavalry 1st time round. Apparently the Jerries called the British Tanks, Tommy Cookers" for that reason. Dave I have seen two bullets welded together from the 1st WW, there was so much flying about they met in mid flight.
paul
 
Never seen the photo, Paul, little bit before my time as well. Do you remember me talking about the first Belgian F.N's which I liked very much because of the lack of recoil, well I decided to have a go with one a couple of days after they were delivered. I got the general duties lad to put up the flags around the 30 yd range on camp and get me some ammo and off we went, the range was along side the assault course of the R.A.P.C which was up the road. As a surprise to Robbie the G.D lad I set the exhaust ports up for short ejection then let him have first go at single shot, he was thrilled with it then it was my go. I let off the first round then I heard the thump of a 2" mortar on my left on the assault course and voices shouting out warnings. Thump!!! three yds in front of us landed a smoke screen mortar bomb, could not see a bloody thing, the smoke was so dense and it was a calm day and no wind to clear it. I shouted to a Sgt to complain and another bomb landed on top of a tin shack along side us, all hell was breaking loose, then a officer turned up through the smoke and said "Sorry". I think he was looking for another officer and ended up saying that to the lower rank because he could not see properly. End of out fling with the F.N.

Dave
 
Blimey Dave you sure had an hectic service in little old England, who ever ordered mortar fire near an assault course and live range?????????????.
paul
 
On the subject of lethal weaponry (and perhaps marginally off-topic although I suppose it is to do with a form of "national service") I once wrote a few lines about the deadly stuff which surrounded me in a Home Guard household, from the age of four to nine. It can be seen here, if anyone wants to read it.

Chris
 
Hi Folks.

Just been looking through some old papers and found that dreaded brown envelope with my enlistment notice to report to No3 Training Regt Royal Engineers, Guillemont Barracks, Cove, Nr. Farnborough Hants.


Like a lot of other guys I hadn't a clue how to get there never heard of it, I set off from New St Station to London, lump in throat leaving a wife and family behind, changed trains in London finally arriving at Farnborough.


A canvas covered lorry draw up and the most uglyist woman private got out of the lorry buck teeth, long straight hair, alright you lot in the back we all obliged.


On the way to the camp the hardmen was saying they ain't cutting my hair short, they ain't gonna getting me in uniform Ha Ha, it took all of 30 minutes to change them.


The meal that evening in the mess was a kipper with a fried tomatoa, that night it was a pie in the NAAFI.


3 month of hell followed, doing field training, Baily Brigde building, waterman ship Knots etc & LAFB's (light assault floating boats) on the lake with in the camp, explosive training at No 8 RE camp at Longmore Railway Regt.

Up at Longmore camp we was being showed how to blow rail tracks using dummy white blocks of TNT and I had the misfortune to to drop one of these dummy blocks, and a voice from a 2nd Lt at the back of me shouted "Sapper" you have just blown me up.

You met guy's from all walk's life to name a few Johnny Ogston Scotish int Goalkeepper, Scott the Chelsea footballer, even a member of the from Mudlarks (Reg Mud )pop group.

Once training was over it wasn't too bad I got Posted to Southampton 17 Port, everybody started in the cookhouse, after 4weeks, I had an interview with the Major he offered my a Engineering trade course 6 mnths at Chatham to 3/6p extra a week no thanks I'd just served a 5 yr Engineering App.ship At The GEC, I was trained as unit projectionist got feed up seeing the same Army training films ended up RHQ pay NCO that was good.


Finally I got demobbed with a final payment of £8, 7 shillings & 11 pence, I caught the 10.43 from Southampton straight through to Brum via Basingstoke back to troubles of Civvy street.


.
 
With all the heavy ammo from the Army flying about in the thread, I think I need body armour and a tin hat !

A mild little tale from the RAF....
Out of training just one week and now on a base with real aircraft to work with, I'm sent to do an instrument 'preflight' on an aircraft soon to take off.
Supervising NCO could not be bothered to come with me he was too busy on a tea break.

I checked the instruments and final check was to tap the glass dials to see if loose. Oh dear, one fell in inwards on to the pointers.
I had found a fault, so proudly off to the office signed the Form 700 log and 'grounded' the aircraft, it was not allowed to fly.
The NCO would have to countersign and decide what to do but he was still drinking his tea.

I ambled off for a cuppa but was stopped in my tracks by the most awful shouting and cursing.
I had grounded the Station Commander's aircraft which he needed for a flight to somewhere important.
The Instument Section was in panic, no spare aircraft and changing the faulty instrument would take too long.

I was told in no uncertain terms that I might as well pack my kit, I'd probably be posted far away when the 'Staish' heard his trip was off.
Sure enough an order came for me to report to Station Headquarters and off I went feeling life in the RAF did not seem so good after all.

I was marched in front of 'Staish' and saw a very stern faced man glaring at me. He loudly asked me what I was playing at grounding his flight.
It was 'No Win' for me - find the fault and ground the plane I'm in trouble - have the glass drop out during flight I would be in very big trouble.
I quoted the checks in the Air Publication (bible) for his aircraft, he went red, I thought he would explode before he bawled me out of his office.

Crew room opinion was that he would get me on the next inspection parade.
On the night before the inspection the lads went out, I stayed in and spent hours 'bulling' my uniform.

During inspection he stopped in front of me slowly looking me up and down, but with a slight smile went on, he wasn't so bad after all.

Lesson learnt - With aircraft it's better to have problems on the ground rather than have problems when they are flying.

Now, whenever I tap the glass on my barometer, I think of that day so long ago during my two years National Service.

3150438
 
So did I once Lyn, fell asleep going to Pirbright from Victoria, and woke up in Portsmouth, when I got back 6am, I did 3days jankers, 3 days loss of pay, and 5 days, CTB. I never wanted to see Portsmouth again. Was your dad Navy or marines??.
paul
 
So did I once Lyn, fell asleep going to Pirbright from Victoria, and woke up in Portsmouth, when I got back 6am, I did 3days jankers, 3 days loss of pay, and 5 days, CTB. I never wanted to see Portsmouth again. Was your dad Navy or marines??.
paul

paul he was in the army so maybe i have got portsmouth wrong...im sure he said portsmouth though..going to visit him soon so i will ask him...

lyn
 
My Weekend Visits to Brum in 1957...

My apprenticeship completed, the dreaded brown envelope came, I was conscripted into the RAF, oh well there was a 'Cold War' on.
After basic training I was posted to the 12th School of Technical Training RAF Melksham Wiltshire.
We could not quite let go of 'civvy street', so with 36 hour passes at weekends most of us would rush home.
Five minutes before midday on Saturdays there would be motor bikes, cars, and coaches, engines revving, waiting for the camp gate to open.
Midday the gate opened, a Grand Prix start down to the road, London guys turning right, Brummies turning left.
We sped through Melksham, Malmesbury, Cirencester, no motorways, so up the narrow A435 through the glorious Cotwolds, to arrive in Brum mid afternoon.
Saturday night out on the town, girlfriends, mates, not much money to spend, but almost like normal life again.
Sunday possibly late getting up, nice dinner from Mom, maybe lazy afternoon, then catch the 8.00pm bus back to town.
In town there would be crowds of servicemen walking down to all the coaches which were parked in side streets off Digbeth.
On the coach, then off down the Pershore Road, through the night, along country roads towards Wiltshire.
2.00am off the coach in country darkness, often marvelling at the night sky, the Milky Way clearly visible in all it's splendour.
Creep quietly into the billet hoping your bed had not been dismantled as a joke by the guys who had stayed on camp.
Monday morning, feeling tired, a camp breakfast, and back to training, our National Service continued.
I've brought a couple of my earlier pics here, they bring back memories of my National Service. I'm glad I served !

Basic training at RAF Padgate our smart billet.
We could polish for Britain !
RAF_Padgate~0.jpg


RAF Melksham, we are relaxing (or studying) in the midday break.
Standards had slipped, but weekly inspections forced a tidy-up.
RAF_Melksham.JPG
 
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oldMohawk, what a cushy time you had,read my post #318 and see what a rubbish camp Barton Stacey was in Hants where I spent six weeks training. Today it would not be tolerated, Mothers would be onto their M.P's complaining, we thought this was the norm until we were posted to other camps, we came through though.
Dave
 
Hi Dave - I did read your post #318 and in my post #319 there is a hint of an apology for my easy RAF National Service...:D
When I was at school I joined the Air Training Corps, nice uniform, visits to airfields etc, so I think this got me into the RAF.
Like you say we came through it somehow... :)
Phil
 
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Hiya Phil,

RAF Padgate, would that be the Padgate near Warrington ?
I didn't join up until '57 but the lockers and other furniture are familiar to me, I never saw beds like that though and we never had stoves either.
We weren't allowed away every weekend so only got leave when the powers that be allowed it. That, (by then) meant a mad scramble to get to Rhyl station and on to the first available train, change at Crewe for Birmingham, of course !

Baz
 
When I was at Parkhall Camp, Oswestry 1962, (Jnr Guardsmens Co), we had stoves in our Hut the same as the second photo#636, but at Pirbright in 13th Co Spider 1964, we had stoves from the first photo#636.
paul
 
Hi Baz,
Yes it is the Padgate near Warrington now a housing estate. I was there in 1956 and put photos on in following posts..
Padgate billet pic in post#145
Our Padgate DI's in post#147
The Padgate front gate and our flight in post#161
I can't remember having leave during the 8 weeks I was there.
After pass out I was posted to RAF Melksham, and the train I travelled on stopped briefly at New Street Station but I couldn't get off.
I put a couple of Melksham photos showing a happy little group in post#275
Phil
 
Paul, I did see some funny and dangerous things happen. You remarked about the Mortar smoke bomb going off when I was on our 30 yd range, the assault course for the pay corp ran alongside our 30 yarder and it was fired before the recruits started on the assault but between us was a very thick hedge marking the line between the two, the 2nd Lt realized that the bomb had strayed after I shouted at the Sgt who I had seen before I started using the range, why he had not seen our Red flags and knew there would be soldiers in the area I do not know. As I said earlier he expected to see an Officer conducting firing on our range, possibly he did not know that armourers used the range for testing purposes
as well.
I have enjoyed reading the posts tonight as I have not been on for two nights, it is marvellous how the brains memory is brought into life when somebody mentions one little thing.
Chris you said a few lines, it was more like a book but I enjoyed every bit of it truly. My Father was a Policeman in the Bham mounted "D" div and if he ever took me to Town with him we never went up main streets in the City, it was always up back alleyways and the reason if he met one of his fellow Policemen he would have to stop and talk and that would delay him, I did not know Bham had main streets until I was older. What I am leading up to, just after the war had ended there was a bomber, a search light and other bits and pieces on show alongside the Hall of Memory in Broad street and there was a fence around the site to keep the public back which was guarded by Police. We went to have a look and the only time Dad was glad to see one of his mates was then. His friend came over to us and said to Dad " Does the lad want to have a look inside Dave" He asked me and I did not say no, so I was helped over the fence and taken up into the bomber to look around. I can remember the inside to this day, how they ever moved around inside I do not know.
I know some one on this site who will know the answer straight away. I do not think this post should be here on reflection.

Dave
 
Well that's cheered me up Dave !
I mentioned the display by the Hall of Memory a while back but got no reaction. I was born in '41 and my memory of it though was of a V1 rocket, a Spitfire and a display by an AA gun detachment.
Your mention of a bomber does ring a faint bell but at the same time I'm wondering how they would've got such a big thing through the city centre ?
 
Welcome back Baz, thought you had gone on holiday!!!, I remember Mom, telling me about the display by the Hall of Memory, and I think I saw some photo's in the science museum a long time ago as a kid. Why did't you have any heating stoves in your huts Baz, did you have"central heating",???
paul
 
Baz, it must have been a bomber as I remember climbing up some steps to look inside, it was possibly brought in bits and assembled on site, if it had been a fighter I would have had to climb higher and look down at the controls. I did not see your previous post relating to this, there were other exhibitions around the city about the same time, one was at the big top opposite the top end of the Bull ring on a area which had been bombed.
Dave
 
It could have been a fighter Dave!!, when you are young everything seems bigger, I visited a display of a Hurrican at Duxford once and they had steps so you could see inside.
paul
 
Baz, it must have been a bomber as I remember climbing up some steps to look inside, it was possibly brought in bits and assembled on site, if it had been a fighter I would have had to climb higher and look down at the controls. I did not see your previous post relating to this, there were other exhibitions around the city about the same time, one was at the big top opposite the top end of the Bull ring on a area which had been bombed.
Dave
Thinking about it Dave, the RAF used to have a wagon and low loader setup called a "Queen Mary" didn't they ? I should imagine that's how they managed to move a bomber around the various cities. It would be nice to know what sort of plane it was, I can't imagine it would be much bigger that a Wellington.
I remember the Spitfire by the Hall of Memory, vividly. I was put in the cockpit and when I saw all the strange faces looking down at me I burst into tears !
It was the AA gun, (Bofors) that fascinated me. The crew went through the drill for engaging an enemy aircraft and on the order "fire" I expected the gun to go off but all we got was the layer stamping his boot on the steel deck instead.
 
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