Music In Pubs

[George Wheeler]

Lost Pubs

Hello Big Gee,

Your listing of jazz pubs was interesting because I don't recall the ones you mention. I used to play at the Adam & Eve in Bradford Street in the late fifties, like you I met my wife there. Then just before moving to Walsall in 61 used to play at the King Edward V11 by the central fire station. The venue when it all started for me was the ex captives club in Hill Street in 1951.

Still at it, typing with sore fingers from a long gig last night for the Freemasons.

George

 

[George Wheeler]

Note. Image referred to no longer available.

Hello Big Gee,

Thanks for the pic, didn't recognise any of the band on that one. I was living in Blossomfield Road at that time, junction of Dingle lane and Danford Lane, always a rush to catch the last bus to Solihull. I left England in 65 for 22 years and lost track of all the venues.

George

 

[Catkin]

Jazz

Love Jazz, i used to go to a pub at six ways Erdington many moons ago. i am looking for..... Lou Rawls tapes..... any ideas.....Cat

 

[Alf]

All Jazz Cat If so try this for size its on my Computer most of the day

https://www.the-jazz.co.uk/playlist.asp

 

[Catkin]

Jazz

Alf just been in ,is it free and can i listen whilst working..Cat
Ps did you get my last mail.?

 

[George Wheeler]

The Jazz

Just been listening to The Jazz, not very impressed with it these days now Classic FM have got their hands on it. Nothing worse than listening to music with no announcements as to who the artists are, it's getting a bit like Muzak

George

 

[Catkin]

Thanks George just had ten dreamy minutes on u tube..............Cat

 

[Big Gee]

Hello Big Gee,

Your listing of jazz pubs was interesting because I don't recall the ones you mention. I used to play at the Adam & Eve in Bradford Street in the late fifties, like you I met my wife there. Then just before moving to Walsall in 61 used to play at the King Edward V11 by the central fire station. The venue when it all started for me was the ex captives club in Hill Street in 1951.

Still at it, typing with sore fingers from a long gig last night for the Freemasons.

George

Hello George.

I'm talking late 1960's/early 1970's when I used to catch live jazz. The best pub in my opinion was The Salutation Arms, corner of Snow Hill and Summer Lane, but sadly this edifice literally fell down. The Birmingham Arms had Friday-night jazz for a number of years. The Drovers' jazz didn't last very long, for reasons I can't remember.

I take it from your remarks that you're still an active musician - string instrument, I'd guess. I play a bit of guitar - Dylan, blues, stuff like that, but mostly for fun. What band are you in? The only regular live trad-jazz I know of these days is at Sutton Coldfield Cricket Club. With the demise of The Lyttleton Arms in Walsall that's another live-music venue gone for good.

While you were out of the country the area around the Bull Ring and Digbeth changed dramatically, most of the old 'market' pubs being demolished. The Drovers and The Brum Arms were pretty rough pubs, and it was a quiet evening if a punch-up didn't break out.

The Warwick Castle at the back of Aston University also had weekend jazz, but it seemed lacking in atmosphere to me.

Regards,

Big Gee

 

[George Wheeler]

Lost venues

Hello Big Gee,

Looks as though I missed all the venues you mentioned as I left England in 65 but 40 years later I did get to the trumpet at Bilston and saw a few old faces, we are all sporting the grey rinse these days.

I played banjo until 15 years ago when I couldn't stand the banjo jokes any longer and switched to bass. To see out motley collection go to www.brandestonjazzband.co.uk drums and trombone are mere youngsters in their late fifties, rest of us well past 70 with our lady banjo player past 75.

George

 

[Alf]

Cat never got your Mail but here's something to keep you happy
[ame="https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Sqts6YrPs&feature=related"]YouTube - Lou Rawls - You"ll Never Find[/ame]

 

[GER22VAN]

Anyone remember Traditional Jazz played at the " Stone Cross " if the name is correct near the Coleshill Street and Stafford Street juction ( or near that area? ) Another place where Traditional Jazz was played was along the road that ran past Saint Martin's Church but my maps are too modern to name the road.

 

[Big Gee]

Hello Big Gee,

Looks as though I missed all the venues you mentioned as I left England in 65 but 40 years later I did get to the trumpet at Bilston and saw a few old faces, we are all sporting the grey rinse these days.

I played banjo until 15 years ago when I couldn't stand the banjo jokes any longer and switched to bass. To see out motley collection go to www.brandestonjazzband.co.uk drums and trombone are mere youngsters in their late fifties, rest of us well past 70 with our lady banjo player past 75.

George

Hello again George.

Taken me a while to reply! I had a look at your website, and how great it is to see live music alive and kicking in Suffolk. My cousin lives in Woolpit, so not beyond the realms of possibility that one day we may be out there and catch your band. It's also nice to see musicians smiling in a group photo!! I noted with some amusement your reference to banjo jokes - never my favourite instrument, but since Christmas there has existed photographic evidence of me playing one. As the guy said, perfect pitch to a banjo player is tossing the thing into the dustbin without it touching the sides - sorry, sorry!!

The Trumpet in Bilston is still going, but not like it used to be. Most live trad jazz these days in the Midlands is in the Black Country. However, there is still a reasonably thriving blues scene around Brum, and I do pick a bit of Mississippi John Hurt myself when the mood takes me. The Sutton Coldfield Blues Collective gets good American musicians from time to time, if Delta blues is to your taste.

I can also take a bit of heavy rock, and there's plenty of that around Brum. The best venue for live rock is The Robin at Bilston, but boy, do they charge to get in! Ronnie Scott's in Broad Street is no more, alas, priced itself out of the market, some say.

Did you catch the tribute to dear old George Melly on BBC the other week?
Very moving. He was my inspiration for years. Lovely bloke, I don't care what anyone says.

Best regards,

Big Gee

 

[George Wheeler]

All that jazz

Hello Big Gee,

I don't know about jazz being alive and kicking in Suffolk, next week will be my seventh funeral in less than two years. We stand there looking at each other and wonder who will be next. I think the next decade could see the end of "trad jazz" , we are all in our seventies and eighties. There are a few younger musicians coming along but they are playing to the older generation of audiences. A jazz critic one wrote that trad jazz is a primitive music with a cult following.

The blues bands seem to flourish round here as well but I suppose like the rest of us they are only being paid a pittance. If you ask the average jazz fan to pay more than a fiver to hear you they think they are being robbed. Their attitude is that because you enjoy playing you should not want payment, forgetting of course minor items like a new set of strings for a bass cost between £150 and £350 and the true cost of driving 120 miles to a gig. We recently had Humphrey Lyttleton for a charity event and he charged us £2,000

There are a couple of modern\mainstream venues I go to who charge on average £15 and seem to pull in big crowds.

I liked George Melly, I first saw him in 1951 and for the last time when I lived in Guernsey in 1975, have a photograph of him autographing lady friends programme.

So you were seen playing a banjo? I think this matter should be referred to social Services, you will be needing counselling. As you are a blues man do you play yourself?

All the best,

George

 

[Big Gee]

Evening, George.

Yes, we're all getting older. On Wednesday we went to The Sutton Coldfield Blues Collective to see a great due called 'Rag Mama Rag'. They do Delta and Chicago blues, mostly, but brought up to date a bit. £7 to get in, and well worth it. While waiting for the music to start, I had a quick shufti around the audience (most of whom I know) and reckon that the average age is somewhere around 50. Happily, there are one or two youngsters around here who are well into blues, so hopefully it'll live on. Jazz is another matter - it seems to have just faded away in and around Brum.

Speaking for myself, I've sung for as long as I can remember. I'm in an operatic society (Gilbert & Sullivan, Offenbach - the lightweight stuff) and do a bit of blues. I started playing guitar about 5 years ago (or at least I started to take guitar seriously about 5 years ago) but it ain't easy. There are some seriously good guitarists around here, and many of them are Django Reinhardt style - but I can't remember the last time I listened to a Hot Club of France-style band. Shortage of violinists!!

I am amazed that Humph charges £2000 for a charity gig!

Best regards,

Big Gee

 

[George Wheeler]

All that jazz

Hello Big Gee,

Charity gigs are not what they seem to be. Around 1960 we were booked for a charity concert at Birmingham Town Hall, it was then I discovered that the performers get paid and any money left over goes to charity.

My dentist and pianist friend are with local Gilbert and Sullivan society, after a recent evening of Gershwin they confessed to preferring George and Ira to to G & S.

If you want any help with you Django style playing I can always come round and chop off a couple of your fingers to give you greater authenticity. I used to play with a bass player when I lived in Belgium who had played with Django during WW2. He said he was terrified that any minute the Germans would arrive and start shooting.

Two weeks ago I saw Christian Garrick, a young very good violin player influenced by Grappeli. In an interview with John Ethridge the guitar player who backed Grappleli in America Grappeli said he never liked playing with the Hot Club. He said he couldn't stand those jangling guitars and Django never got the chords right in "Dark Eyes"

Back on the subject of charities take a look at www.electricpalace.com The Palace in 1975 was about to be demolished when a trumpet playing doctor friend and several other residents of Harwich got together to save it. He puts on jazz concerts once a month and it operates as a cinemas at weekends. We went there last night, to see Sweeny Todd, you can park outside the front door, £4.50 admission and a £1.00 for an ice cream. I do some of the advertising and ticket sales and get free admission to the jazz concerts.

Humph is a bargain at £2,000, quite a few years back Chris Barber was charging £2,500. two years ago I got some work at a hotel after they turned down Claire Teale, she only wanted £5,000 for an evening with her quartet. Better get yourself a new dress and practise your falsetto, there's money to be made out there.

Cheers,

George

 

[Big Gee]

George,

I'm obviously out of touch with what it costs to hire bands these days. The 2 clubs I attend both feature pro and semi-pro artistes from time to time, but I'd be surprised if any of them ask for more than about £300 for a night's performance. On at least one occasion not enough money was taken at the door to pay the performer. I got talking last year to a solo performer from Yorkshire (all rounder, excellent musician and singer) who told me that until about 5 years ago he could make a good living so long as he got 3 or 4 gigs a week. Nowadays he's lucky if he can get this many in a month and has had to go back to work to earn enough to live on.

Re: guitar, I gave up on Django-style stuff quite a while back as being beyond my skill. I can beat out the chords, but not in any recogniseable order (like Eric Morecambe...). Love listening to Hot Club, but not my playing style at all. Thanks for the offer regarding my fingers, but my missus says she'll do the job if I continue practising into the early hours.

I heard that story about Grapelli, too. No wonder he scooted out of France at the start of WW2. I saw him in Brum (at The Hippodrome) years and years ago - he was accompanied by a guitarist I knew at the time - and he was very good.

Keep on plucking!

Graham

 

[George Wheeler]

Band fees

I usually quote £70 a man when they book us as a six piece, some of the worst payers are the big hotels who think in terms of the minimum wage. They don't appreciate that with the travelling and setting up that an evenings gig is the same as a days work. For last Saturdays gig I had to leave home at 5.15 to be at the venue and set up by 7.0pm. We then played from 8.00 to 12.00pm and by time we had cleared away I got home at 1.15am. I have more kit than our drummer because I provide the P.A as well.

Two years ago BBC radio Suffolk phoned me on a Saturday morning saying they had been let down and could I put a band in that evening. They went on to say there was no money available but I could take along my own advertising material, I suddenly remembered the band were on holiday. A few days later they phoned again on the scrounge for free tickets for a charity concert we were playing at. I pointed out that as the BBC receive £2.7 billion a year they should be making a contribution, not begging. I did receive a letter of apology over that exchange.

I live with the secretary of the Colchester Jazz Club and more than once the relationship has been strained over payments to bands. They have £17,000 on deposit and have grudgingly agreed to pay the bands an extra 5% to cover fuel costs.

No money these days in music I am afraid

 

[Big Gee]

Evening George.

Only once in my life have I ever been paid to perform - £10 for doing 3 Bonzo Dog numbers in a pub! Either I ain't in it for the £££'s, or I'm just too crap to be paid - you choose!

But seriously, I have good friends around the Midlands who are professional standard musicians yet who find it impossible to make a living out of their music. And I'm talking classical musicians, too. It seems to me that to make a living out of music these days it doesn't matter what you sound like, only what you look like.

I've sung light opera since the year dot, yet in all that time I know of only one performer who was actually talent-spotted during an amateur show. It so happened that in the audience that evening was someone who knew someone, ad infinitum. I can remember when professional talent-spotters attended most amateur operatic productions, but no longer it seems.

Yet last night we watched some awful programme on TV about largely talentless *****rs auditioning for parts in some Lloyd-Webber musical. In fairness, two of the girls were really very good, but it was perfectly obvious that one of them didn't conform looks-wise, so she was out.

And coincidence or not, my wife's just had a call from our friend who plays in a folkie-type band, and last night they got paid the munificent sum of £50 to perform at a wedding. £50 between three people! I'd have stayed at home, personally.

Regards,

Big Gee

 

[Wendy]

I think it all depends on the music. My son and daughter in law had a young band at their wedding and I must admit they were very good. My son said they should be they cost £900! and that was 2 years ago. My cousin who has played around the midlands since the early 70's had to agree the band were good. He has met many of the well known bands and still plays at the Boot in Sutton. He is a drummer. I think he now does it because he enjoys it not for the money. I still think it's sad we no longer have many venues where we can go and see good music.

 

[George Wheeler]

Bands

Hello Big Gee,

I have always been paid for playing, it's a part time job, part time staff get paid for work in a pub so why shouldn't the band who bring in the extra customers get paid as well? Sunday and Monday nights are normally quiet nights in pubs and good nights to put in a band to attract the customers. On two occasions pub owners have complained to me about the extra work involved coping with the extra customers on what was normally an easy night for them. Must be strain brought on by opening and closing the till. You also pay tax on band earnings, in those days they would lower your tax code and sort out the balance at the end of the year.

In 1961 I was earning £18 a week, just bought my first house on which my mortgage was £4.50 a week. Two gigs a week would pay nearly half my mortgage, not the same today. When I started playing around 1952 there was no free jazz. you paid at the door and the band was paid as well.
Last night I paid £10 to listen to a local girl on tenor sax (she followed Kathy Stobart in to Humphs band) with her quintet. I would think the band probably picked up at least a £100 each which I would have thought was quite reasonable.

£50 to pay at a wedding is ludicrous, the hire of the marquee probably cost a few thousand, if people won't pay the union rate then we don't play.

Most musicians are bad organisers and for some playing is just an ego trip. It has taken me years of battling to get them to dress smartly,wear proper shoes, stay sober and not take over long breaks. Sadly musical wall paper is still the most profitable, last December John Lewis in Norwich paid my friends trio £450 a day for fifteen days just to make a noise to attract customers in to their new store.

It would take another ten pages to list the problems of running a band, you will have to wait for my memoirs

All the best,

George