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Midland Red Early Days

I have enlarged the original, which I downloaded from the new national archives photo site, and unfortunately it isn't a lot better, there are some good photos of Birmingham on the site.
 
Bit unlikely if it's Tamworth but the word across the back of the bus looks to me like GENERAL but there again the location reminds me of Bridgenorth!.
 
Oh it is Tamworth alright, but I thought the same word (GeneraL) was on the bus Mike. An excursion of Londoners perhaps? Or (must research this) was there a Tamworth General O. C.?
 
The livery could be London General red and white. Unfortunately few photos in books show rear views. I have found a photo of single decker LS6 of 1927 which appears to have the same window arrangement but that was a six wheeler and this obviously was not (the LS was a double decker type so this was a one off).
 
Well, Astonite, you've posed us a difficult problem with your Tamworth picture. That's good: the harder the problem, the more satisfying it is to solve! ;)

I am unable to report a "breakthrough", but here are a few thoughts.

In Midland Red Volume 2 (page 163) there's a picture of the interior of the Empire Garage in Nuneaton, circa late 1920s. Seen in rear view are two local coaches: [1] T Beirne (Tamworth) 1927 Reo Pullman (reg UE4344); [2] L Lee (Collycroft, Bedworth) Gilford (UE9083). The Reo at least has the "dark below, light above" livery, and both coaches have elliptical rear windows. The Empire Garage was rented by Midland Red for overflow from June 1932 to December 1934. The services only of T Beirne (Tamworth - Austrey and Tamworth - Middleton) were acquired by Midland Red on 9 May 1932.

Peter Hardy's BMMO Volume 1 has a long list of companies and services taken over by Midland Red. He does sometimes give fleet and trading names, but sadly "General" is not mentioned. Astonite's bus (or coach) is in Tamworth, but the operator could of course be based in some nearby town. So, was there a local operator in the late 1920s or early 1930s, based in or serving Tamworth, using the "General" fleetname (and perhaps livery)? Not an easy question to answer!

If it is a coach (there appears to be a luggage rack on the roof), it could have come from much further afield.

Could it be a London General vehicle? If so, what is it doing in Tamworth? Perhaps one of the private hire fleet (a long way from home). Or perhaps an ex-General vehicle not yet repainted.

I agree with David that it can't be LS6, which according to Ian's Bus Stop spent its life based at Cricklewood. Six wheels and rear-entrance, anyway, and it doesn't look right from the rear, according to Ian Smith's artwork (see below).
 
No, not as big as an LS (The LGOC - built 'London Six', on which development was halted when AEC brought out their similar 'Renown' 3-axle design), and only single rear axle and single wheels. I think it could be something American, like a REO (the commercial vehicle name used by Ransom Eli Olds, whose cars were 'Oldsmobiles'); and that word on the back, I'm now sure the last letter is A not L, so...Godiva? Geneva? Sadly I'm not 'up' on Warwickshire independants of the 20s and 30s but there was a Godiva in Coventry - it could be theirs?
 
In Midland Red Volume 1 (page 52 top right) there's a lovely picture of a Tilling Stevens/Midland Red TS3/FS open-top double-decker. The caption reads:
OA7098 outside Tamworth's early 18th century Town Hall about 1926. This chassis originally carried an ex WMT [Worcestershire Motor Transport] body. The ghostly figure, apparently a passenger on the upper deck, is, in fact, a statue of Sir Robert Peel, father of the founder of our police forces. Midland "Red" legend records that Sir Robert was once knocked somewhat askew by a reversing bus. Whilst everyone puzzled how to return him to a state of sobriety, another driver accidentally reversed into him again and rectified the situation!​
[Lloyd, could you please upload this picture when you get a moment?]
 
Godiva of Coventry! Very good sugestion, Lloyd. There was a Godiva Motor Co in Coventry circa 1918 [see below, from Miller & Richard's Printing Type Specimens: this book is undated but contains a price list of 14 October 1918]. The firm appears to be a motor dealer, but they might also have been in (or later gone into) the bus or coach business.
[Searching on "Godiva Coventry" yields too much information! ;)].
 
There you go. A heavily retouched photo of A69 (OA 7098), Tilling Stevens TS3FS [chassis 199] with body BB294 at Tamworth Town Hall, taken from a damaged Midland Red glass plate negative.

This chassis had originally carried one of the ex-Worcestershire Motor Transport bodies (BB98), and subsequently carried two others (BB97 & 95) before being rebuilt to forward control for this body in 1923.It was withdrawn and sold, still in this condition, in 1929,
 
Payne & Bates made the Godiva car and motorcyle in Coventry, but I was thinking more of the Godiva coach firm who later amalgamated with Bunty, Bantam and Red House to form the 1960s Red House Group.
 
An early QL type chassis of 1928 was specially prepared as a show chassis, complete with sectioned engine and gearbox. History hasn't recorded where it was shown (it might just have been a company directors inspection at Bearwood, there are other photos of different complete types prepared for such displays) but I suspect this was either the first QL, chassis 578, which was eventually bodied (Brush B34F BB1033) for the Potteries company as VT 8801, or the second, 579 which became Midland Red 897 HA 3720 with identical body BB934.
The QL was the last of the 'old design' of SOS vehicles, although chassis did not alter much at first after this, bodies did - particularly the curved, rather than angled body sides which the M model introduced next.
The QL introduced 4-wheel brakes to the fleet, and hydraulic brake operation, which was to remain the preferred option until vehicle production ended with the D9 and S23 models in the 1960s.
 
Thanks for the picture of A69, Lloyd. Yes, I think it's time to move on from Tamworth and Lady Godiva (for now). We've done our best, Astonite!
 
Thanks, Lloyd, for that interesting picture of the QL "show chassis" and accompanying notes. We enjoyed discussing the QL and QLC quite a while ago (see MRED Index).

[Which reminds me: the MRED Index only goes up to post #624. Now we're past 1200 posts. Indexing is hard work! :rolleyes:]
 
My mistake in thinking that LS6 had the same rear windows. Studying the photo I have again, shop blinds behind the bus made it look like D shaped windows.
 
hi all
thought i would share a few pics i took today at middleton hall hertiage day
the had provided an old midland read bus to run from tamworth town centre to middle during the day to ferry people backwards and forwards

no im not really mad on buses but i saw it in the carpark waiting and thought what a lovely old bus
so took some pics
people on the bus thought i was a bit mad lol

View attachment 57103View attachment 57106View attachment 57104View attachment 57105
 
It's 5415 (EHA 415D) a 1966 D9 model, withdrawn in 1977 which has passed through the hands of a few preservationist owners since then. It is currently cared for by enthusiast Ashley Wakelin's Wheels company, which has bought the Midland Red Coaches name to trade under. It's a fully legal PSV still earning its keep!
 
thankyou for the information lloyd
im compleatly lost when it comes to old buses ect
but i thought it just looked fab and so well looked after
 
Returning to Tamworth, a company not mentioned was Midland General. This Balfour Beattie company started out in 1920 as the General Omnibus Co., later buying out the Midland Bus Co. of Kimberley, Notts and renaming to Midland General. What we are taking as red in Astonite's photo may be blue. Tamwoth would be an easy destination from the East Midlands.
 
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I've been trying to find something about the General Omnibus Co (which morphed into the Midland General Omnibus Co). So far I've discovered companies of that name based in Auckland, New Zealand, and Dublin, Ireland. Looking for replacements for the dash in "— General Omnibus Co", I've found the following possibilities (so far): Australian, Birmingham (of course!), China, Devon, Egyptian, Galway, Glasgow, London, Melbourne, Midland, Paris, Scottish and Southern. It's a bit like looking for a person named Smith! :D
 
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For informatioon about Midland General look at https://members.tripod.com/~notts_derby/midland.htm
As a teenager in late 1950s I used to travel arround the Midland Red network on a 5 shilling Childs Day Anywhere ticket and one of my trips was to Nottingham where I found something like a dozen opperators in the city. One of which was Midland General which was associated with another operator Notts & Derbys Traction. These were Balfour Beattie companies. Balfour Beattie were electricity generators and like corporation lighting departments they branched out into trolley bus opperations. When electricity companies were nationalised in the late 1940s the electricity board found themselves running buses which they soon passed on to the British transport Commision so although Midlands general and its associates were never Tilling companies they became listed as such
 
ASTONITE said:
Another nice bus photo, this time it's in Lichfield
Click to expand...

A 1928-9 Leyland 'Lion' with Leyland's own bodywork, sadly not clear enough to identify the operator or registration.
The location is easier, though - Dam St / Market St junction, photographed from Conduit St. The building on the corner with an impressive glazed attic has been replaced, but many of the others remain as seen in a present day view. (Why has the Cathedral shrunk so much though? I thought they were safe to leave out in the rain!)
 
"Fares Please" Bus Rally 12 September 2010.

On Saturday (12 September), two fine looking preserved classic Midland Vehicles were out and about at the "Fares Please" bus rally at Bewdley Railway Station. David Holton was there to take pictures of 1948 BMMO C1 3301 (KHA301) and 1953 Leyland PD2/12 4031 (KHA031), together with some good-looking companions. Here is his fotopic webpage of the event. It does the Thylacine's heart good to see these pictures! ;)
 
The Bristol RELH6L in Bristol Omnibus livery shown on that link, or rather the payload, stayed in the same establishment as Moi at the weekend. Sadly our paths didn't cross too much as while my party was partaking of pain et vin and taking in the heady works of Telford and Darwin while spouting Wilfred Owen; the bus party seemed unnaturally drawn to the selection of fine ales that Mr Wetherspoon had put on. They did thankfully rise early and clear the car park put not before I had checked out the Bristol badge.
 
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I've just received my first copy of "Omnibus" (no 200), the newsletter of the Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Trust (BaMMOT), which operates the Transport Museum, Wythall. It's full of interesting reading, including an article by Brian Dicks entitled "Grave Concern". This article relates to long-time Midland Red Chief Engineer L G Wyndham Shire (much discussed on this thread) and his wife Ethel May "Peter" Wyndham Shire née Lewin (died 27 June 1947), who was buried on the Great Orme in Llandudno. The memorial inscription on her grave mentions her nickname: "In Memory of Ethel May Wyndham Shire (Peter)". After L G Wyndham Shire's death (29 January 1963), his ashes were placed in Ethel's grave, and an inscription was added: "George Loftus Wyndham Shire, husband of (Peter)", strangely transposing his first and second names. Included in the article are pictures of the grave.

[Our Lloyd gets honourable mention as co-researcher.]
 
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Glad to welcome you as a museum menber, O striped one! Yes Brian, Andrew Gardner (the editor of "Omnibus") and I, assised in parts by a few others, have researched quite a few of the great men of Midland Red and the local or early omnibus industry over the last few years - in fact a gave a brief precis of Mr Shire's life in post #96 of this thread, back in March. I suspect the transposition of his first names indicates that he was known as "George" within the family. The meaning of the nickname "Peter" for his wife Ethel is still a mystery, though.
 
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