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Midland Red Early Days

Re: Midland Red Not So Early Days.

Thylacine said:
Could someone please transport us back to even earlier days? ;)
Click to expand...

But of course, Sir, your carriages await!

And what a choice! Here in Gloucester Green bus station, Oxford, in the immediate post-war months is a scene many enthusiasts would love to be able to recreate today. A Midland Red SOS 'SLR' class coach, [A1970 (CHA 952) chassis 2400, English Electric 30 seat central entrance body no. C192] stands together with side-engined AEC Q type double decker KG 7750, new to Cardiff Corporation but by the time of this photograph with Worth's Coaches of Enstone, just north of Oxford on the road to Stratford.
The SLR would still have its 6.373 litre RR2LB petrol engine, but before long would be converted to diesel with a Leyland E181 7.4 litre engine like the rest of its class. The use of Leyland engines meant that after withdrawal by Midland Red, many of these coaches were exported to the Canary Islands and Cyprus, but sadly they did not stay around long enough for one to be repatriated and restored.
 
Not Midland Red but...
The AEC Q type was designed by G. J. Rackham, who after beginning his career with the London General went to Yellow Coach in America when it was first started by John D Hertz (you've heard of Hertz van rental? Yes that's him!) as an off shoot of his Yellow Cab taxi company. On his return to AEC in 1928 (he had first gone to Leyland Motors on his return to England but said that the Lancashire climate didn't agree with him!) he designed the Regal and Regent bus chassis (both very similar to the Tiger and Titan he had designed for Leyland) and then turned to a new layout of chassis based on the Fageol 'Twin Coach' he had encountered in America. Rackham's version had one engine on the side of the chassis, unlike the Twin Coach's two (one either side) but the design was largely unsuccessful, due to its long wheelbase and therefore short rear overhang - not enough for a normal rear platform - and because of its unusual mechanical layout, which most bus garage maintenance areas were not equipped for. It was far more expensive than the standard models anyway, so other than London Transport operators only tried it experimentally.
Birmingham Corporation had a Q type, a model of which is currently available in the shops.

As I said at the start, this had no connection with Midland Red, but... the AEC Q idea lodged in the mind of Gordon Hayter, chief engineer of the Gateshead-based Northern General Omnibus Company (which had previously bought Midland Red built SOS buses) and he produced his own version, the NGT SE4 and SE6 models (side engined, 4 or 6 wheel single deckers - see here for more detail, including one under restoration). His assistant was Donald McIntyre Sinclair, who in 1940 replaced L.G.Wyndham Shire as Midland Red's chief engineer.
Sinclair rebuilt Shire's experimental rear engined REC class vehicles to become the prototypes of the post war fleet of underfloor engined buses, so I do claim some link between the AEC Q and Midland Red's vehicle design history.
 
Lloyd, thanks for informing us about the remarkable G J Rackham, and the connection to NGT and D M Sinclair of Midland Red fame. Do we know G J R's full name and dates?

Rackham did his bit for the war effort early in World War 2, as explained in the following extract from David Fletcher's Churchill Crocodile Flamethrower (Oxford: Osprey Publishing Ltd, 2007):
At around the same time [1940] the gifted bus designer and ex-Tank Corps officer G J Rackham of the Associated Equipment Company (AEC) was developing a design of his own using a powerful Mather & Platt pump, powered by a Napier Lion engine, to produce something quite awe-inspiring: the jet of blazing liquid was expelled at 750 gallons (3,409 litres) per minute. Fitted into an armoured AEC 6x6 chassis and known as the Heavy Pump Unit, it also featured a smaller projector on a two-wheeled carriage that was carried on the back of the vehicle. This could be manhandled by its crew as far away as the hose would stretch. A suggestion, in one source, that 25 of these big vehicles were built seems doubtful.​
The picture below (from the same book) is captioned: "The big AEC Heavy Pump Unit thrills its military audience with a high-angle shot. One demonstration, at Leeds Castle in Kent, caused considerable damage to the garden."

Can anyone find a better picture of this fascinating Rackham creation?
 
Thylacine said:
Lloyd, thanks for informing us about the remarkable G J Rackham, and the connection to NGT and D M Sinclair of Midland Red fame. Do we know G J R's full name and dates?
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George John Rackham, b. 10th August 1885 at Shropham, Norfolk.
d.4th q. 1974 Chiltern.
See below for more on Rackham.
 
The Buses on Screen website gives Telford Bus Group as the current location of JHA216L. Does anyone know them? Otherwise can it be traced from its Irish reg no 73KE18 which is a County Kildare registration?
 
I was aware at the time that that Midland Red transferred their West Midland County operations to a separate company Midland Red Metropolitan but this did not affect the general public. This would have been done to provide a vehicle (sic) for the orderly transfer of the licences, buses, property, staff etc rather than having to do them all in a rush on the first day of operation under WMPTE as the only legal moves that day would be the sale of the shares in the new company.
 
Sorry if this is long, but information, I feel, shoud be disseminated to all who are interested.

George John Rackham (he of Vanguard, LGOC, Yellow Coach, Leyland (Tiger/Titan etc), and AEC (Regal/Regent/Q etc) fame)
 Born 10 August 1885 Shropham, Norfolk
 married Mildred Pearl London (b. 1890 Bettws-y-Coed, Caernavonshire) in 4th quarter 1914 (Wandsworth reg. district)
 they had a daughter
 Lorna Barbara Rackham, b. 10 September 1916 in Worcester. (She later married a Rowland L Miall in 1941).

 NOW,
 What was GJR (or at least his wife) doing in Worcester in 1916?

 I believed he was with LGOC from 1912 until his departure for the USA in 1922 (The family travelled London - New York on the United States Lines "President Monroe" [Built 13 May 1919 - 9 March 1920 by New York Shipbuilding Co., Camden, N. J. Tonnage: 10,533. Dimensions: 502' x 62' (522' o.l.). Twin-screw, 14 knots. Triple expansion engines. Two masts and one funnel. Previous name: "Panhandle State". Purchased by Dollar Line in 1924, renamed "Monroe". In 1940 was renamed "President Buchanan". Commandeered and converted to troop, later hospital ship in World War II and name changed to "Emily H. Weder". Reverted to "President Buchanan" after the war, then scrapped San Francisco 1956.], arriving 20 November 1922.) The passenger list gives their destination as with: 'Major Carlson, Calverton Apartments, Columbia Rd, Washington DC' and 'George A Green, Chicago Motor Bus Co'.

 George Alan Green is mentioned in "Characters of the Bus Industry" (Omnibus Society, ed. Gavin Booth, 2004, isbn 0-946265-37-2 - a 64 page paperback full of details of the men who made the British Bus Industry the success it once was - I highly recommend it to any student of the genre) as a colleague of Rackham's, becoming works manager at Walthamstow and later LGOC assistant chief engineer before going to Brussels and then in 1912 to Fifth Avenue Coach Co, New York. Green and Rackham were instrumental in setting up John D Hertz's "Yellow Coach" company before Rackham's return to Britain and his equally successful careers with Leyland and AEC.

 Worcester? 1916? Anybody?
 
Lloyd, thanks for that valuable research on George John Rackham. I can only speculate as to how his daughter came to be born at Worcester (nice additional Midlands connection though). Like all such mysteries, I suspect it won't be long before it's cleared up! ;)

David, the Telford Bus Group (TBG) don't appear to be active preservationists these days (but I could be wrong about that). A member of TBG once owned JHA227L, but the only reference I've seen to them owning JHA216L was on the "Buses on Screen" webpage you discovered. I've left a question about JHA216L / 73KE18 on the MidlandRed.net forum, so we may soon learn more (there is a member of TBG on that forum).
 
Getting back to the SLR (Lloyd's post #1171). Midland Red Volume 1 has numerous good quality pictures (as usual), but I'm not aware of very many on the internet. Colin Gittins has a picture of CHA956. And below is a poor quality but interesting picture (from Mark Priest's collection) of what appears to be CHA970 at Digbeth coach station in the early 1950s.

Perhaps you can clear up another little mystery for me, Lloyd. If you compare your picture of CHA952 with Colin Gittins's picture of CHA956, they appear to be quite different shades of "red". I've noticed this phenomenon in many early monochrome Midland Red pictures. Is it just a trick of the light, or were there actually different shades of red livery? :rolleyes:
 
Thylacine
I think a more likely reason for differences in shade would be the use of orthochromatic film. I’m pretty sure it would still have been available then (on checking the internet someone is querying in 2003 what he could do with some old ortho film about 20 years old). This sort of film was not sensitive to red light and therefore pictures taken using it showed red as very dark.
Mike
 
Here is a lovely picture of ex-Midland Red SLR CHA995 seen at Hampton Court Green in summer 1965. The coach is looking good despite being owned by the Square Club (Birmingham) for some ten years. Does anyone know anything about the Square Club?
 
Here are a couple more SLR pictures (both at Epsom in 1951): CHA965; CHA990. The pictures are from the Arthur Hustwitt (Memorial) Collection © NA3T (if you are willing to pay you can get better quality :rolleyes:).
 
(Thought I posted a reply to this hours ago? Oh well...)

Yes apparrent livery differences are caused by type of film used - some don't differentiate between red and black. Both coaches are red to the waist, then black above, with black mudwings. When new they were in red and maroon - very smart!

The Square club is named for its site, Weoley Castle Square (which is actually a large round island!) and is an activity club for 13+ youngsters, a very worth while group.
Their SLR was relaced by a C2, which sadly got torched by vandals - another preservation opportunity lost. See here for more local info
 
Thanks, Lloyd! The Square Club Youth and Community Centre sounds like a very worthy organisation (especially as they used ex-MR coaches!). Do you happen to know which particular C2 they replaced the SLR with?
 
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Thanks, Lloyd! We can expect a postcard, then. Love the Hitchhiker's Guide reference. In Australia, Belgium is a kind of yukky processed rolled "meat" (we're not biased, Devon is another one!) :D

[Wikipedia says that Devon is called Belgium in Tasmania, but what would they know? (Both are on sale here - I avoid them.) I mean no disrespect, Belgium is a wonderful country where chips were invented. And I live right next door to Devonport.]
 
Yes, wanted dead or alive! But Schrödinger was Austrian, as you well know (like our Ludwig). Motorman's a real Europhile, isn't he? That's a good thing.
 
DavidGrain said:
I was aware at the time that that Midland Red transferred their West Midland County operations to a separate company Midland Red Metropolitan but this did not affect the general public. This would have been done to provide a vehicle (sic) for the orderly transfer of the licences, buses, property, staff etc rather than having to do them all in a rush on the first day of operation under WMPTE as the only legal moves that day would be the sale of the shares in the new company.
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The transfer of Midland Red operations in the West Midlands County was effected by actually transferring all of the assets concerned including 119 road service licences to the dormant Stratford-upon-Avon "Blue" Motors Ltd which in turn transferred them to the Midland Red (Metropolitan) Omnibus Co. This company then passed to the WMPTE on December 3rd 1973 for the nominal sum of £2 in two £1 shares - one held by the Director General of the PTE, F.J.Lloyd and the other by Director of Operations, James Isaacs (transferred from Midland Red). The company was promptly renamed West Midlands (Metropolitan) Omnibus Co., then West Midlands Transport Ltd., a wholly owned subsidery of the WMPTE. This company was wound up in November 1975 when the Metro as it was still refered to was absorbed into the rest of the PTE operations. After the 1973 takeover, only 76 cross boundary services remained with Midland Red.
Here we see S17 5491 suffering a bit of an identity crisis shortly after the PTE takeover.
 
Thanks Motorman-Mike for the extra detail. These changes are not a easy as some people think as sometimes quite complicated moves have to be done for legal, taxation and other reasons.
 
Welcome back, Mike! ;) Thanks for the detailed history of the BMMO-WMPTE transaction. I love the picture of 5491 with "Midland Red" fleetname and "WMPTE" legal lettering.
 
The "loss" (actually "sale") of Midland Red's West Midlands operations to WMPTE significantly affected the company. The company was cashed up, and keen to regain market share elsewhere in the Midlands. The following transactions occurred in 1973-1974 [corrections, additions and comments welcome]:
1973: Midland Red bought R G Cooper's "Oakengates rota" shares in the Shropshire Omnibus Association.
November 1973: Midland Red bought Green Bus Co (Rugeley, Staffordshire), formerly owned by M A and C J Whieldon.
6 January 1974: Midland Red bought T Hoggins and Sons (Wrockwardine Wood, Shropshire).
29 March 1974: in recognition of the new reality, Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Co Ltd was renamed to Midland Red Omnibus Co Ltd.
22 April 1974: Midland Red bought Harper Brothers (Heath Hayes) Ltd of Cannock, Staffordshire, and its wholly owned subsidiary Tudor Rose Coaches (Sutton Coldfield). This transaction (effective 7 September 1974) included the Heath Hayes garage, 50 vehicles and 89 full-time staff. Harper Brothers boss Brian Harper became Midland Red Area Engineer (Eastern).​
 
The company was indeed "cashed up", and the money burning a hole in the management's pockets.
As stated above, new areas of operation were purchased and money was poured into garage improvements (Digbeth had a new engineering facility built on the former parking patch ajacent to Mill Lane, and a new fuelling and wash lane replaced the former pits area which unwary coach passengers would occasionally fall into, for instance) but the money soon ran out and by 1976 the Viable Network Project (VNP) was underway to identify the (then) present day needs of the travelling public, something they had failed to keep abreast of in the post-war years. This was quickly renamed to market Analysis Project (MAP) when a few local councils responded with "Viable network? You won't want our subsidies when you're viable, then?" which scared the board of management more tham somewhat. The scheme identified ways to revise services to suit the passengers and save money, but the post-war passenger decline was in full steam and nothing was going to stop it. The crunch came, and was obvious to staff as the pay (in cash back then) was a day late coming, Friday instead of Thursday, and apparently certain disused premises had to be sold off very quickly to convince the banks that the company was still 'afloat'. (I think the long-closed Lichfield garage was one, passing to the local council at a knock-down rate, and the Bearwood site was sold for redevelopment in 1977 after a brief spell being rented out as a market hall, having only been used for storage since operational closure in 1973 and by office staff in 1974).
 
Oh dear! I'm afraid I don't like the story of the "Decline and Fall of Midland Red" :cry:. But it must be told, and who better to tell it than those who witnessed it at first hand? I'll "grin and bear it" Lloyd! :stare:
 
The only Viable Network Project was implemented at Stratford-upon-Avon Garage in 1975/6 before the change to Market Anlysis Project. It resulted in the introduction of branded networks e.g. (VNP) Avonbus and Leamington & Warwick (shades of the old tramway company) and later (MAP) Reddibus, Hotspur, Tellus etc, etc.
 
Can you tell me, Was Sheepcote Street included in the transfer to WMPTE or did that remain with Midland Red? Reason I ask was that when Travel West Midlands were running the London Liner service jointly with London Transport, the LT coaches used to lay over in Sheepcote Street outside the garage which as far as I was aware at the time was no longer operational. I used to prefer the London Liner in preference to the National Express because I could catch it either in Colmore Row to save hacking down to Digbeth or I could drive to Miller Street and park my car in the garage.
 
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