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Midland Red Early Days
- Thread starter Thylacine
- Start date
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- 1900s 1910s bmmo early days midland red
Lloyd
master brummie
A bit of fine detail - searching the 1891 census for Ruth A Cowper finds her as a Telegraphist boarding at George and Sarah Stace's home, 2 Princes Street Brighton. Another Telegraphist lodging there is - Richard H Shoyer (mistranscribed as 'Shayer') - so this must be where they met!
I do enjoy this ancestry jigsaw puzzle game!
I do enjoy this ancestry jigsaw puzzle game!
Lloyd
master brummie
I think it must be - the only other Kenneth Garcke who appears on BMD lists is Kenneth F Garcke, born 4th quarter 1934 Edmonton, Middlesex. Mother's maiden name Andrews. A 'Frank O (Oscar) Garcke' (born Essex, 1st quarter 1888) married a 'Una A (Alice) B Andrews' (born Plymouth, 1st quarter 1906) also Edmonton, 4th quarter 1934. A bit young for a pilot?
These Garckes are not in my lineage of Emile Oscar Garcke, adding to my belief that a brother accompanied his immigration from Saxony.
KEG married Dorothy V Davison in 1934, they had two daughters Greta in 1935 and Sheila in 1937.
In searching the BMD lists (trying to sort out the other immigrants & their families), there are 'Garke' and even 'Gark' variations of the name. KEG's marriage has 'Garke'...Aaaagghhh!!!
Thylacine
master brummie
So the one Kenneth Garcke is too OLD, and the other is too YOUNG (for the RAF in 1940). Hmm! So there's a third Kenneth Garcke out there?!?! 
With that middle name, Frank Oscar Garcke (b 1888) sounds like he might be SEG's (b 1885) cousin, the son of EOG's putative brother. It's getting a bit remote from Midland Red, but it would be useful (if difficult) to determine the name and lineage of EOG's brother, if only to lead towards information on EOG's parentage and Saxon origins.
In the past I've not been a big enthusiast of genealogical research (probably because I don't have the resources for it). But I realise that it provides important chronological "fixed points" and spacial and career movements. And the occasional gem like your discovery about telegraphists Ruth Cowper and Richard Shoyer.
I am becoming more enthused as a result of spectacular results (and hard work) of BHF experts on this thread (and others). It's good though to be able to "pad out" the genealogical picture with the "bigger picture" of the person's life. (Not always possible!).
With that middle name, Frank Oscar Garcke (b 1888) sounds like he might be SEG's (b 1885) cousin, the son of EOG's putative brother. It's getting a bit remote from Midland Red, but it would be useful (if difficult) to determine the name and lineage of EOG's brother, if only to lead towards information on EOG's parentage and Saxon origins.
In the past I've not been a big enthusiast of genealogical research (probably because I don't have the resources for it). But I realise that it provides important chronological "fixed points" and spacial and career movements. And the occasional gem like your discovery about telegraphists Ruth Cowper and Richard Shoyer.
I am becoming more enthused as a result of spectacular results (and hard work) of BHF experts on this thread (and others). It's good though to be able to "pad out" the genealogical picture with the "bigger picture" of the person's life. (Not always possible!).
Thylacine
master brummie
Birmingham Motor Express Co Ltd 1903-1908.
2010-06-27 13:49:58
[The story of Birmingham Motor Express Co Ltd forms an important chapter in the "pre-history" of Midland Red. Members and viewers might be interested, so I'll post this narrative, even though much of the information has already appeared in bits and pieces on this and other BHF threads. Since we are at present searching for the elusive W R Taylor and George Pollard, it is useful to set out what little we know about these gentlemen in context. As usual, corrections, additions and comments are welcome.
]
The Birmingham Motor Express Co Ltd (BME) was not the very earliest operator of motor buses in Birmingham, but the company made "the first attempt at a regular public service of motor vehicles worthy of the name" in Great Britain. When Midland Red commenced operations (as Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Co Ltd) on 1 August 1905, it was the former BME fleet that made up the bulk of the "first generation" of motor buses for the new company.
The earliest mention of motor buses in Birmingham occurred as early as 1897. In April of that year, the Birmingham General Omnibus Co Ltd (BGO) was established as a holding company for the recently acquired horse bus interests of financier Claude Tebbitt. Significantly, the directors reserved powers "to run motor cars on any ... routes whenever it may be demonstrated that it will be profitable to do so". BGO is not known to have operated motor buses, but from this time we have the intriguing picture of a small motor bus bearing the fleet name "Birmingham Motor Omnibus Co", which can be seen in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 14 top right). Perhaps this "mystery bus" was a BGO experiment. BGO passed to BET on 27 September 1899 and became a department of BET subsidiary Birmingham and Midland Tramways Co Ltd (BMT) on 1 January 1902, becoming part of Midland Red on formation in 1905.
On 12 December 1898 a temporary three-month licence was granted to Motor Touring Co Ltd (68 Broad St, Birmingham) to operate three motor buses between Washwood Heath "Fox and Goose" and Dale End via Highfield Road and Alum Rock Road. This company had trialled motor vehicles around Llandudno, and proposed "to place one omnibus on the route next week and three would be in operation within a month". There is no evidence that a regular service was ever started, and Motor Touring Co Ltd resolved on 6 April 1899 to enter voluntary liquidation, the chairman of the company at this time being John J Horne. Liquidator Henry Ledsam completed the winding up at the last meeting of Motor Touring Co Ltd at Llandudno on 22 February 1901.
In October 1901 Messrs Cox and Rooksby (88 Colmore Row, Birmingham) applied to the city authorities for permission to run a service of "motor cars" between the Hagley Road "Fountain" and Moseley, via Hagley Road, Calthorpe Road, Church Road, Priory Road and Edgbaston Road. Licences were withheld pending the establishment of an operating company, advice being offered that the proposed service was unlikely to succeed. Nothing further is heard about Messrs Cox and Rooksby, and I have been unable to discover any information about these gentlemen. [Help please!]
In January 1902 an anonymous "party of gentlemen interested in motor transport in Birmingham" travelled to Portsmouth, Hampshire, for a demonstration run in a 16-seat 8.5 hp Milnes-Daimler motor bus named "Cambria", recently placed in service between Dockyard and Old Red House by Portsmouth and Gosport Motors Ltd (116 High Street, Portsmouth). It is interesting that this was the very first Milnes-Daimler motor bus. We are not told how the gentlemen reacted to their experience. [Portsmouth and Gosport Motors Ltd was compulsorily wound up on 6 November 1903 and ended up paying its creditors less than five shillings in the pound on 8 January 1904.]
On 8 September 1902 Erdington property owner W W Greener placed a 10-seat Daimler motor bus in service between Erdington Green and the steam tramway terminus at Salford Bridge. A fair of 2d was charged for a journey of less than 1.5 miles, the existing horse bus service offering stiff competition. Nothing more is known of this pioneering service, but the proprietor is believed to have been successful gunmaker and author William Wellington Greener (1834-1921) who lived at Erdington. His bus must have been similar to a Daimler motor brake operated from August 1899 in Bishop Auckland by William Davidson, who by a remarkable co-incidence moved to Erdington in 1906!
BME was established early in 1903, with W R Taylor as General Manager. One of the directors was Thomas Ottey (1853 Dunstall - 1931 Birmingham; see next post by Lloyd). In 1905 Ottey would be a founding director (with Arthur T Salisbury-Jones, E H Bailey and Clarence Freeland) of the London Motor Omnibus Co Ltd (LMO), well known for the "Vanguard" fleet name. Using an unknown number of 18-seat Milnes-Daimler "waggonettes" (similar to those employed at the time by Great Western Railway), BME operated trial services between the Town Hall and Hagley Road "Plough and Harrow". The buses were new in about 1900 to Bexhill Motor Co (Bexhill-on-Sea, East Sussex), and became available when the Hastings local authority refused them licences.
In June 1903 BME applied for licences to operate motor buses in Birmingham. BET had also expressed an interest in the subject, so the following month Birmingham City Council established a special subcommittee "to consider and report their recommendations with regard to the applications received". Sadly, it appears that no record has survived of the findings of this subcommittee.
In October 1903 BME submitted three motor vehicles for licensing (this was before the introduction of national motor vehicle registration, so the numbers given are Birmingham "hackney carriage" licence plate numbers):
251: Mulliner single-decker with 12 hp Napier engine, seating ten inside and two "outside" (next to the driver). This fascinating bus is pictured at the "Fountain" (Hagley Road, Edgbaston) in 1903 in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 14 bottom right);
291-292: Mulliner 14-seat charabancs, also with Napier 12 hp engines. [Are there any known pictures of these charabancs?]
The service was now New Street – Hagley Road "Fountain". No fixed timetable was announced initially, as traffic conditions were untested.
BME "stabled" its first motor buses in the yard of the "Five Ways" inn (Ladywood Road, Edgbaston). As the fleet grew, an adjoining property was acquired where offices and a garage were built. Later the original "Five Ways" yard was roofed over and some of the outbuildings incorporated.
The fate of the Milnes-Daimler waggonettes and the Mulliners is unknown, but they do not appear to have been registered by BME in 1904 as required by the Motor Car Act 1903.
In December 1903 BME increased its capital and ordered six Milnes-Daimler 16-20 hp open-top double-deckers. These were registered O264-O269. The bodies were built by G F Milnes and Co (Castle Car Works, Hadley near Wellington, Shropshire) and seated 16 inside, 18 "on top" and two next to the driver. The dimensions of these buses were: 12 ft 3 in high by 21 ft 3 in long by 6 ft 3 in wide. They were well ventilated and lighted with acetylene gas. Three independent brakes were fitted, and the buses were said to be "practically noiseless". They had a bonnet with a rounded front, and a honeycomb radiator was suspended partly below the frame so that the fan could be fixed directly on the end of the crankshaft.
Temporary licences were extended pending delivery of the new buses, which were to be used to extend the service to the Bearwood "Bear".
Three of the new buses entered service on 12 April 1904, providing a 20 minute service from New Street (King Edward's Grammar School) to Bearwood. A few weeks later the other three buses were delivered, and the frequency of the service was increased to every 10 minutes. They were timed to leave New Street at three minutes past the hour (and every 10 minutes thereafter) in order not to clash with the horse bus service. Midland Red Volume 1 (page 15) has a fine picture of O266 in Sandon Road, Bearwood, and on page 16 (top left) is a picture of O269.
In October 1904 six more powerful Milnes-Daimler 24 hp O18/12R buses (registered O1270-O1275) were purchased, three more (O1276-O1278) following in January 1905. These appeared in a "natural wood" livery with green wheels lined yellow. Early in 1905 O1273 "threw a con rod", and was fitted with a Maudslay three-cylinder 27 hp engine. The new engine proved to be so successful that more were obtained. There are pictures of two of these handsome vehicles in Midland Red Volume 1: O1274 is pictured at "Five Ways" or Bearwood depot (page 16 top right); O1276 is pictured at Kyotts Lake depot (page 16 bottom left).
In February 1905 a German-designed Dürkopp 18-20 hp O18/12R bus (O1280) was delivered. It appeared in lake livery with yellow panels and wheels. It is pictured twice in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 17 top and bottom right).
In the same month two Birmingham-made Wolseley 20 hp two-cylinder O18/18R buses (O1281-O1282) were purchased. These remarkable forward-control underfloor-engined vehicles (described in post #495) appeared in chocolate livery. They were originally Wolseley demonstrators. Midland Red Volume 1 (page 17) alleges that the ownership and even the location of O1282 are unknown. There is a picture in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 17 top left) of O1281 when new in Lordswood Road, Harborne. I also strongly suspect that one (perhaps both) of the Wolseleys can be seen in the remarkable "Kings Head" picture posted by Astonite (post #480).
In March 1905 a Thornycroft 18-20 hp O18/16+2R bus (O1279) was hired from LMO. This bus, capable of a top speed of 12 mph, cost £900 new. It is pictured in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 17 bottom left).
Meanwhile, in anticipation of these new buses, BME started an additional service to Harborne in September 1904, in direct competition with the horse bus service of the BET-owned City of Birmingham Tramways Co Ltd (CBT). In self defence CBT applied for licences for four motor buses on the Harborne route in February 1905, which were granted despite BME objections. In April 1905 CBT took delivery of four Dürkopp double-deck buses (O1301-O1304), costing £800-900 each, which were deployed on the Harborne route the following month. Details of the bodywork and livery of the CBT Dürkopps are not revealed to us, but we are told that they were assembled (presumably under licence) at the new British Automobile Development Co Ltd plant (established in March 1905 adjacent to the Brush Electrical Engineering Co Ltd factory at Loughborough).
In March 1905 BME proposed two new services: one from New Street to Harborne via Hagley Road and Lordswood Road (to form a circle with the existing Harborne service), and the other from Navigation Street to Cannon Hill Park. Both applications were refused by the Birmingham authorities.
Meanwhile on 26 November 1904 the directors of BME had registered a new company, the Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Co Ltd (BMMO). The purpose was to raise new capital for the expansion of the business, the prospectus inviting public subscriptions of up to £60,000 (with a minimum of £40,000 stipulated). BME provisionally agreed to sell its assets to BMMO, but in the event public investment was far below expectations and the sale did not occur. The only BMMO shares were £500 shares issued to each of the original six subscribers, for a total of £3,000.
In December 1904 George Pollard was appointed General Manager and Engineer of BME. Former General Manager W R Taylor appears to have become Chairman at this time. [The Chairman is given as "W I Taylor" in the London Gazette (13 October 1905), but I think this is a typo.]
In May 1905 BME commissioned a Milnes-Daimler lorry as a towing vehicle to bring breakdowns back to the Ladywood Road garage for repair (at the time police did not permit repairs to be carried out on the streets). The towing lorry also had an alternative charabanc body. It is believed that the chassis of O268 was used, the new registration O1514 perhaps being reserved for the charabanc body.
On 21 July 1905 BME and BET concluded an agreement under which the horse bus operations of CBT and BMT, together with the motor bus operations of BME, were sold to BMMO. Shares in BMMO were issued in exchange for the assets and goodwill contributed to the merger, and BMMO became a subsidiary of BET. The transaction was backdated to 1 July, probably for accounting purposes. Until the end of the month BME continued to operate the services, but from 1 August 1905 BMMO began operations in its own right (though its affairs were managed at first by the Birmingham and Midland Tramways Joint Committee). The rest, as they say, is history!
BME no longer had any reason to exist. At a meeting on 21 September 1905 it was resolved (confirmed 10 October) that BME should be wound up voluntarily, and chartered accountant Albert Edward Sherrey was appointed liquidator. The final meeting of BME (to complete the winding up process) was held on 20 August 1908. Thus ended the fascinating history of this pioneering Birmingham bus company.
Sources:
[Peter Hardy]. Fleet History PD2. The Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company Limited. Part I 1904-1933. London: PSV Circle and Omnibus Society, [1961]. As usual, this has been my main source of information.
Charles Frederick Klapper. Golden Age of Buses. London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1978. ISBN 0710089619.
Paul Gray, Malcolm Keeley and John Seale. Midland Red: A History of the Company and its Vehicles up to 1940. Glossop: Transport Publishing Co, 1978. ISBN 0903839199. As usual, this work is referred to as Midland Red Volume 1.
London Gazette website.
Bishop Auckland Town Council "History" website.
Numerous posts by BHF members on the "Midland Red Early Days" and other threads.
Pictures: [1] Birmingham Motor Omnibus Co 1897 motor bus; [2] Davidson's 1899 Daimler; [3] Milnes-Daimler 1908 advertisement; [4] BME Milnes-Daimler O1276; [5] BME 1904 Milnes-Daimler.
2010-06-27 13:49:58
[The story of Birmingham Motor Express Co Ltd forms an important chapter in the "pre-history" of Midland Red. Members and viewers might be interested, so I'll post this narrative, even though much of the information has already appeared in bits and pieces on this and other BHF threads. Since we are at present searching for the elusive W R Taylor and George Pollard, it is useful to set out what little we know about these gentlemen in context. As usual, corrections, additions and comments are welcome.
]The Birmingham Motor Express Co Ltd (BME) was not the very earliest operator of motor buses in Birmingham, but the company made "the first attempt at a regular public service of motor vehicles worthy of the name" in Great Britain. When Midland Red commenced operations (as Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Co Ltd) on 1 August 1905, it was the former BME fleet that made up the bulk of the "first generation" of motor buses for the new company.
The earliest mention of motor buses in Birmingham occurred as early as 1897. In April of that year, the Birmingham General Omnibus Co Ltd (BGO) was established as a holding company for the recently acquired horse bus interests of financier Claude Tebbitt. Significantly, the directors reserved powers "to run motor cars on any ... routes whenever it may be demonstrated that it will be profitable to do so". BGO is not known to have operated motor buses, but from this time we have the intriguing picture of a small motor bus bearing the fleet name "Birmingham Motor Omnibus Co", which can be seen in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 14 top right). Perhaps this "mystery bus" was a BGO experiment. BGO passed to BET on 27 September 1899 and became a department of BET subsidiary Birmingham and Midland Tramways Co Ltd (BMT) on 1 January 1902, becoming part of Midland Red on formation in 1905.
On 12 December 1898 a temporary three-month licence was granted to Motor Touring Co Ltd (68 Broad St, Birmingham) to operate three motor buses between Washwood Heath "Fox and Goose" and Dale End via Highfield Road and Alum Rock Road. This company had trialled motor vehicles around Llandudno, and proposed "to place one omnibus on the route next week and three would be in operation within a month". There is no evidence that a regular service was ever started, and Motor Touring Co Ltd resolved on 6 April 1899 to enter voluntary liquidation, the chairman of the company at this time being John J Horne. Liquidator Henry Ledsam completed the winding up at the last meeting of Motor Touring Co Ltd at Llandudno on 22 February 1901.
In October 1901 Messrs Cox and Rooksby (88 Colmore Row, Birmingham) applied to the city authorities for permission to run a service of "motor cars" between the Hagley Road "Fountain" and Moseley, via Hagley Road, Calthorpe Road, Church Road, Priory Road and Edgbaston Road. Licences were withheld pending the establishment of an operating company, advice being offered that the proposed service was unlikely to succeed. Nothing further is heard about Messrs Cox and Rooksby, and I have been unable to discover any information about these gentlemen. [Help please!]
In January 1902 an anonymous "party of gentlemen interested in motor transport in Birmingham" travelled to Portsmouth, Hampshire, for a demonstration run in a 16-seat 8.5 hp Milnes-Daimler motor bus named "Cambria", recently placed in service between Dockyard and Old Red House by Portsmouth and Gosport Motors Ltd (116 High Street, Portsmouth). It is interesting that this was the very first Milnes-Daimler motor bus. We are not told how the gentlemen reacted to their experience. [Portsmouth and Gosport Motors Ltd was compulsorily wound up on 6 November 1903 and ended up paying its creditors less than five shillings in the pound on 8 January 1904.]
On 8 September 1902 Erdington property owner W W Greener placed a 10-seat Daimler motor bus in service between Erdington Green and the steam tramway terminus at Salford Bridge. A fair of 2d was charged for a journey of less than 1.5 miles, the existing horse bus service offering stiff competition. Nothing more is known of this pioneering service, but the proprietor is believed to have been successful gunmaker and author William Wellington Greener (1834-1921) who lived at Erdington. His bus must have been similar to a Daimler motor brake operated from August 1899 in Bishop Auckland by William Davidson, who by a remarkable co-incidence moved to Erdington in 1906!
BME was established early in 1903, with W R Taylor as General Manager. One of the directors was Thomas Ottey (1853 Dunstall - 1931 Birmingham; see next post by Lloyd). In 1905 Ottey would be a founding director (with Arthur T Salisbury-Jones, E H Bailey and Clarence Freeland) of the London Motor Omnibus Co Ltd (LMO), well known for the "Vanguard" fleet name. Using an unknown number of 18-seat Milnes-Daimler "waggonettes" (similar to those employed at the time by Great Western Railway), BME operated trial services between the Town Hall and Hagley Road "Plough and Harrow". The buses were new in about 1900 to Bexhill Motor Co (Bexhill-on-Sea, East Sussex), and became available when the Hastings local authority refused them licences.
In June 1903 BME applied for licences to operate motor buses in Birmingham. BET had also expressed an interest in the subject, so the following month Birmingham City Council established a special subcommittee "to consider and report their recommendations with regard to the applications received". Sadly, it appears that no record has survived of the findings of this subcommittee.
In October 1903 BME submitted three motor vehicles for licensing (this was before the introduction of national motor vehicle registration, so the numbers given are Birmingham "hackney carriage" licence plate numbers):
251: Mulliner single-decker with 12 hp Napier engine, seating ten inside and two "outside" (next to the driver). This fascinating bus is pictured at the "Fountain" (Hagley Road, Edgbaston) in 1903 in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 14 bottom right);
291-292: Mulliner 14-seat charabancs, also with Napier 12 hp engines. [Are there any known pictures of these charabancs?]
The service was now New Street – Hagley Road "Fountain". No fixed timetable was announced initially, as traffic conditions were untested.
BME "stabled" its first motor buses in the yard of the "Five Ways" inn (Ladywood Road, Edgbaston). As the fleet grew, an adjoining property was acquired where offices and a garage were built. Later the original "Five Ways" yard was roofed over and some of the outbuildings incorporated.
The fate of the Milnes-Daimler waggonettes and the Mulliners is unknown, but they do not appear to have been registered by BME in 1904 as required by the Motor Car Act 1903.
In December 1903 BME increased its capital and ordered six Milnes-Daimler 16-20 hp open-top double-deckers. These were registered O264-O269. The bodies were built by G F Milnes and Co (Castle Car Works, Hadley near Wellington, Shropshire) and seated 16 inside, 18 "on top" and two next to the driver. The dimensions of these buses were: 12 ft 3 in high by 21 ft 3 in long by 6 ft 3 in wide. They were well ventilated and lighted with acetylene gas. Three independent brakes were fitted, and the buses were said to be "practically noiseless". They had a bonnet with a rounded front, and a honeycomb radiator was suspended partly below the frame so that the fan could be fixed directly on the end of the crankshaft.
Temporary licences were extended pending delivery of the new buses, which were to be used to extend the service to the Bearwood "Bear".
Three of the new buses entered service on 12 April 1904, providing a 20 minute service from New Street (King Edward's Grammar School) to Bearwood. A few weeks later the other three buses were delivered, and the frequency of the service was increased to every 10 minutes. They were timed to leave New Street at three minutes past the hour (and every 10 minutes thereafter) in order not to clash with the horse bus service. Midland Red Volume 1 (page 15) has a fine picture of O266 in Sandon Road, Bearwood, and on page 16 (top left) is a picture of O269.
In October 1904 six more powerful Milnes-Daimler 24 hp O18/12R buses (registered O1270-O1275) were purchased, three more (O1276-O1278) following in January 1905. These appeared in a "natural wood" livery with green wheels lined yellow. Early in 1905 O1273 "threw a con rod", and was fitted with a Maudslay three-cylinder 27 hp engine. The new engine proved to be so successful that more were obtained. There are pictures of two of these handsome vehicles in Midland Red Volume 1: O1274 is pictured at "Five Ways" or Bearwood depot (page 16 top right); O1276 is pictured at Kyotts Lake depot (page 16 bottom left).
In February 1905 a German-designed Dürkopp 18-20 hp O18/12R bus (O1280) was delivered. It appeared in lake livery with yellow panels and wheels. It is pictured twice in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 17 top and bottom right).
In the same month two Birmingham-made Wolseley 20 hp two-cylinder O18/18R buses (O1281-O1282) were purchased. These remarkable forward-control underfloor-engined vehicles (described in post #495) appeared in chocolate livery. They were originally Wolseley demonstrators. Midland Red Volume 1 (page 17) alleges that the ownership and even the location of O1282 are unknown. There is a picture in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 17 top left) of O1281 when new in Lordswood Road, Harborne. I also strongly suspect that one (perhaps both) of the Wolseleys can be seen in the remarkable "Kings Head" picture posted by Astonite (post #480).
In March 1905 a Thornycroft 18-20 hp O18/16+2R bus (O1279) was hired from LMO. This bus, capable of a top speed of 12 mph, cost £900 new. It is pictured in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 17 bottom left).
Meanwhile, in anticipation of these new buses, BME started an additional service to Harborne in September 1904, in direct competition with the horse bus service of the BET-owned City of Birmingham Tramways Co Ltd (CBT). In self defence CBT applied for licences for four motor buses on the Harborne route in February 1905, which were granted despite BME objections. In April 1905 CBT took delivery of four Dürkopp double-deck buses (O1301-O1304), costing £800-900 each, which were deployed on the Harborne route the following month. Details of the bodywork and livery of the CBT Dürkopps are not revealed to us, but we are told that they were assembled (presumably under licence) at the new British Automobile Development Co Ltd plant (established in March 1905 adjacent to the Brush Electrical Engineering Co Ltd factory at Loughborough).
In March 1905 BME proposed two new services: one from New Street to Harborne via Hagley Road and Lordswood Road (to form a circle with the existing Harborne service), and the other from Navigation Street to Cannon Hill Park. Both applications were refused by the Birmingham authorities.
Meanwhile on 26 November 1904 the directors of BME had registered a new company, the Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Co Ltd (BMMO). The purpose was to raise new capital for the expansion of the business, the prospectus inviting public subscriptions of up to £60,000 (with a minimum of £40,000 stipulated). BME provisionally agreed to sell its assets to BMMO, but in the event public investment was far below expectations and the sale did not occur. The only BMMO shares were £500 shares issued to each of the original six subscribers, for a total of £3,000.
In December 1904 George Pollard was appointed General Manager and Engineer of BME. Former General Manager W R Taylor appears to have become Chairman at this time. [The Chairman is given as "W I Taylor" in the London Gazette (13 October 1905), but I think this is a typo.]
In May 1905 BME commissioned a Milnes-Daimler lorry as a towing vehicle to bring breakdowns back to the Ladywood Road garage for repair (at the time police did not permit repairs to be carried out on the streets). The towing lorry also had an alternative charabanc body. It is believed that the chassis of O268 was used, the new registration O1514 perhaps being reserved for the charabanc body.
On 21 July 1905 BME and BET concluded an agreement under which the horse bus operations of CBT and BMT, together with the motor bus operations of BME, were sold to BMMO. Shares in BMMO were issued in exchange for the assets and goodwill contributed to the merger, and BMMO became a subsidiary of BET. The transaction was backdated to 1 July, probably for accounting purposes. Until the end of the month BME continued to operate the services, but from 1 August 1905 BMMO began operations in its own right (though its affairs were managed at first by the Birmingham and Midland Tramways Joint Committee). The rest, as they say, is history!
BME no longer had any reason to exist. At a meeting on 21 September 1905 it was resolved (confirmed 10 October) that BME should be wound up voluntarily, and chartered accountant Albert Edward Sherrey was appointed liquidator. The final meeting of BME (to complete the winding up process) was held on 20 August 1908. Thus ended the fascinating history of this pioneering Birmingham bus company.
Sources:
[Peter Hardy]. Fleet History PD2. The Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company Limited. Part I 1904-1933. London: PSV Circle and Omnibus Society, [1961]. As usual, this has been my main source of information.
Charles Frederick Klapper. Golden Age of Buses. London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1978. ISBN 0710089619.
Paul Gray, Malcolm Keeley and John Seale. Midland Red: A History of the Company and its Vehicles up to 1940. Glossop: Transport Publishing Co, 1978. ISBN 0903839199. As usual, this work is referred to as Midland Red Volume 1.
London Gazette website.
Bishop Auckland Town Council "History" website.
Numerous posts by BHF members on the "Midland Red Early Days" and other threads.
Pictures: [1] Birmingham Motor Omnibus Co 1897 motor bus; [2] Davidson's 1899 Daimler; [3] Milnes-Daimler 1908 advertisement; [4] BME Milnes-Daimler O1276; [5] BME 1904 Milnes-Daimler.
Lloyd
master brummie
A nicely detailed account of the beginnings of motor bus operation in Birmingham, Thylacine - well done!
(Missing is the word 'Omnibus' from the note on the company's 1904 registration).
Thomas Ottey, born 1853 in Dunstall, Staffs, has been the subject of an earlier study of some of us at Wythall. In the 1861 census he, aged 8, is with his parents Thomas (a 46 y.o. shoemaker employing 2 men and 2 boys) and Mary (nee Stonehouse) in the Main Street of Dunstall, which is between Burton-upon-Trent and Barton-under-Needwood. There are 7 children in all at that time.
Ten years later as an apprentice Chemist he is lodging with James Hinde Patten (a Chemist) and family at Stanton, between Burton-upon-Trent and Castle Gresley.
He was by 1881 already making a success, being a Chemist and head of household at 212 Waterloo St, Horninglow, Burton-upon-Trent with his mother and brother Edwin (a Wheelwright).
In 1884 he married Kate Cox and they had two children, Bertram Charles Ottey (1885-1976, who became a Chartered Accountant in Birmingham with offices at 115-117 Colmore Row) and Raymond Gascoyne Ottey (1889-1917) who, an enthusiastic aviator, sadly died as a member of the fledgling Royal Flying Corps in the Nord-Pas-de-Calais Region of France on 28 July 1917.
Kate died in 1900, and in the 1901 census Thomas and his two sons were at 82 Hagley Rd, Edgbaston (a very select area at that time, and on the route of the City - Fountain motor bus operation).
TO drops out of view for a while (can't find him in the 1911 census) other than the involvement with BME and Vanguard, but by 1922 is at 3 Craven Mansions, Lancaster Gate, London W2.
He died in Birmingham aged 78 in the first quarter of 1931, presumably at the home of his son Bertram (who with wife Phillis nee Billing and children Ronald, David and Alan were at 70 Portland Road, Edgbaston in 1922 and 9 Westfield Road, Edgbaston in 1930 to 1957 at least).
Sorry no photos of Thomas Ottey, but here is Raymond Gascoyne Ottey's picture from the Royal Flying Club Aviator's licence records.
(Missing is the word 'Omnibus' from the note on the company's 1904 registration).
Thomas Ottey, born 1853 in Dunstall, Staffs, has been the subject of an earlier study of some of us at Wythall. In the 1861 census he, aged 8, is with his parents Thomas (a 46 y.o. shoemaker employing 2 men and 2 boys) and Mary (nee Stonehouse) in the Main Street of Dunstall, which is between Burton-upon-Trent and Barton-under-Needwood. There are 7 children in all at that time.
Ten years later as an apprentice Chemist he is lodging with James Hinde Patten (a Chemist) and family at Stanton, between Burton-upon-Trent and Castle Gresley.
He was by 1881 already making a success, being a Chemist and head of household at 212 Waterloo St, Horninglow, Burton-upon-Trent with his mother and brother Edwin (a Wheelwright).
In 1884 he married Kate Cox and they had two children, Bertram Charles Ottey (1885-1976, who became a Chartered Accountant in Birmingham with offices at 115-117 Colmore Row) and Raymond Gascoyne Ottey (1889-1917) who, an enthusiastic aviator, sadly died as a member of the fledgling Royal Flying Corps in the Nord-Pas-de-Calais Region of France on 28 July 1917.
Kate died in 1900, and in the 1901 census Thomas and his two sons were at 82 Hagley Rd, Edgbaston (a very select area at that time, and on the route of the City - Fountain motor bus operation).
TO drops out of view for a while (can't find him in the 1911 census) other than the involvement with BME and Vanguard, but by 1922 is at 3 Craven Mansions, Lancaster Gate, London W2.
He died in Birmingham aged 78 in the first quarter of 1931, presumably at the home of his son Bertram (who with wife Phillis nee Billing and children Ronald, David and Alan were at 70 Portland Road, Edgbaston in 1922 and 9 Westfield Road, Edgbaston in 1930 to 1957 at least).
Sorry no photos of Thomas Ottey, but here is Raymond Gascoyne Ottey's picture from the Royal Flying Club Aviator's licence records.
Thylacine
master brummie
Thanks Lloyd. And thanks for unveiling Thomas Ottey. I suppose Ottey would have been a substantial investor in BME and probably did quite well out of the 1905 merger into Midland Red. The picture of Raymond Ottey is very poignant - so many young men died in World War 1, but we don't usually think of the airmen.
Unforgivable error leaving the "Omnibus" out of BMMO! :headhit: The BME story (with prologue) turned out longer than I expected: as you will be aware, it's nearly all from Hardy, with one or two snippets picked up elsewhere. A good excuse to post the picture of Davidson's 1899 Daimler again!
Unforgivable error leaving the "Omnibus" out of BMMO! :headhit: The BME story (with prologue) turned out longer than I expected: as you will be aware, it's nearly all from Hardy, with one or two snippets picked up elsewhere. A good excuse to post the picture of Davidson's 1899 Daimler again!
Lloyd
master brummie
The London Motor Omnibus Co Ltd (Vanguard) later became one of the constituent companies of London General. Vanguard's works at Walthamstow became LGOC's "Associated Engineering Company" (AEC) whose buses and lorries were commonplace for most of the twentieth century. Their telegraphic address remained as "Vangastow, Walthamstow" throughout the company's life.
Thylacine
master brummie
Interesting!
Here's an artist's rendition of Thornycroft O1279. I can't remember where I found it, but it seems to be based on the picture in Midland Red Volume 1.
[I tried to post it with the BME story but wasn't allowed: is there a limit to the number of attachments per post?]
Here's an artist's rendition of Thornycroft O1279. I can't remember where I found it, but it seems to be based on the picture in Midland Red Volume 1.
[I tried to post it with the BME story but wasn't allowed: is there a limit to the number of attachments per post?]
Thylacine
master brummie
1905 Thornycroft Bus.
2010-06-27 19:38:56
[The following account of the 1905 Thornycroft double-decker (such as O1279 hired by BME from LMO) is from Tramway and Railway World (9 March 1905). It is interesting to compare it with the account of the 1905 Wolseley already posted (post #495).]
Thornycroft's Omnibus.
The 'bus shown by John I Thornycroft and Company, Limited, Chiswick, London, is a double-decker seated for 34 passengers, 16 inside and 18 outside. The chassis is of the Company's own design and construction, and its general arrangement may be seen from the accompanying drawings [sadly lacking from the e-book version]. The engine is of the four-cylinder Otto-cycle type, with cylinders 4.25 inches in diameter, by 5 inches stroke. Under working conditions, running at 900 revolutions per minute, the engine develops 24 brake horsepower. The average 'bus speed on the level is about 10 miles an hour, and gradients of 1 in 8 can be climbed. The whole engine and cam gear are enclosed in an oil-tight dust-proof case, and forced lubrication is provided for all moving parts. The cylinders are cooled by water circulation, operated by a pump of the rotary gear type. The ignition is of the low-tension magneto type, but high-tension electric ignition can be fitted if required.
A change-speed gear is fitted, giving four different speeds. By this gear the omnibus may be driven at 3, 5.5, 8.25, or 12 miles an hour. The gear also allows of a reverse speed of 3 miles per hour, this being used when it is desirable from any cause to back the omnibus [duh!]. It is also possible to accelerate the engine, so that a maximum forward speed of 15 miles an hour may be attained. All the gear rings are of hardened mild steel, and are enclosed in a dust-proof and oil-retaining gear case. Sufficient petrol can be carried to run the 'bus for about 75 miles with full load.
The steering is effected by a diagonal shaft and hand wheel operating a worm and segment. The wheels are of artillery pattern, with metal naves, oak spokes, and ash felloes. A pedal on the foot-plate operates a brake on the countershaft close to the gear box. This brake is sufficiently strong to hold the vehicle on the steepest hills. A screw-down brake is also provided, which acts on the drum of the back axle. The price of an omnibus of this class is £900. Among other orders, Messrs Thornycroft are now constructing 22 of their chassis for the London Motor Omnibus Company.
2010-06-27 19:38:56
[The following account of the 1905 Thornycroft double-decker (such as O1279 hired by BME from LMO) is from Tramway and Railway World (9 March 1905). It is interesting to compare it with the account of the 1905 Wolseley already posted (post #495).]
Thornycroft's Omnibus.
The 'bus shown by John I Thornycroft and Company, Limited, Chiswick, London, is a double-decker seated for 34 passengers, 16 inside and 18 outside. The chassis is of the Company's own design and construction, and its general arrangement may be seen from the accompanying drawings [sadly lacking from the e-book version]. The engine is of the four-cylinder Otto-cycle type, with cylinders 4.25 inches in diameter, by 5 inches stroke. Under working conditions, running at 900 revolutions per minute, the engine develops 24 brake horsepower. The average 'bus speed on the level is about 10 miles an hour, and gradients of 1 in 8 can be climbed. The whole engine and cam gear are enclosed in an oil-tight dust-proof case, and forced lubrication is provided for all moving parts. The cylinders are cooled by water circulation, operated by a pump of the rotary gear type. The ignition is of the low-tension magneto type, but high-tension electric ignition can be fitted if required.
A change-speed gear is fitted, giving four different speeds. By this gear the omnibus may be driven at 3, 5.5, 8.25, or 12 miles an hour. The gear also allows of a reverse speed of 3 miles per hour, this being used when it is desirable from any cause to back the omnibus [duh!]. It is also possible to accelerate the engine, so that a maximum forward speed of 15 miles an hour may be attained. All the gear rings are of hardened mild steel, and are enclosed in a dust-proof and oil-retaining gear case. Sufficient petrol can be carried to run the 'bus for about 75 miles with full load.
The steering is effected by a diagonal shaft and hand wheel operating a worm and segment. The wheels are of artillery pattern, with metal naves, oak spokes, and ash felloes. A pedal on the foot-plate operates a brake on the countershaft close to the gear box. This brake is sufficiently strong to hold the vehicle on the steepest hills. A screw-down brake is also provided, which acts on the drum of the back axle. The price of an omnibus of this class is £900. Among other orders, Messrs Thornycroft are now constructing 22 of their chassis for the London Motor Omnibus Company.
With regard to the Cox & Rooksby of post 637, the 1900 directory lists nothing like this at 88 Colmore row, also known as Queens chambers, and full of stockbrokers, insurance firms, accountants and the like. In 1903, however there is listed a Arthur H. Rooksby, auctioneer. In 1899- 1900 he was at Arcade Chambers, corporation st, but had disappeared by 1905
Mike
Mike
Lloyd
master brummie
Thanks for the clues, mikejee!
BMD Lists the birth of an Arthur Harvey Rooksby 3rd quarter 1871, Kings Norton district; and the death of an Arthur Harvey Rooksby aged 34 in Newcastle upon Tyne, 4th quarter 1908. He appears in a family tree on Anc**try, and is shown as having no spouse or children but siblings Charles Harvey, Percy Richard, Hilda May, Sidney, Ida B, and Randle Rooksby.
In the 1891 census 19 y.o Arthur H Rooksby, an Auctioneer's clerk, is at 226 Pershore Rd Edgbaston with his parents 51 y.o. Richard (a commercial traveller) and Emily (48, nee Emily Kate Randle), sister Hilda (17) and brother Sidney (16, a fire insurance clerk). In the 1881 census the family is at 307 Pershore Rd.
In the 1871 census, just before AHR's birth, the family is at Egramont Villa, 24 Varna Rd Edgbaston - just off Pershore Rd and a street whose later infamy caused its name to be erased from the district under the slum clearance of the 1960s. Back in genteel 1871 however the Rooksbys had a domestic servant and a nursemaid.
BMD Lists the birth of an Arthur Harvey Rooksby 3rd quarter 1871, Kings Norton district; and the death of an Arthur Harvey Rooksby aged 34 in Newcastle upon Tyne, 4th quarter 1908. He appears in a family tree on Anc**try, and is shown as having no spouse or children but siblings Charles Harvey, Percy Richard, Hilda May, Sidney, Ida B, and Randle Rooksby.
In the 1891 census 19 y.o Arthur H Rooksby, an Auctioneer's clerk, is at 226 Pershore Rd Edgbaston with his parents 51 y.o. Richard (a commercial traveller) and Emily (48, nee Emily Kate Randle), sister Hilda (17) and brother Sidney (16, a fire insurance clerk). In the 1881 census the family is at 307 Pershore Rd.
In the 1871 census, just before AHR's birth, the family is at Egramont Villa, 24 Varna Rd Edgbaston - just off Pershore Rd and a street whose later infamy caused its name to be erased from the district under the slum clearance of the 1960s. Back in genteel 1871 however the Rooksbys had a domestic servant and a nursemaid.
Thylacine
master brummie
Thanks 
, Mike and Lloyd, for that information on Arthur Harvey Rooksby who could well be one of the "Cox and Rooksby" duo of pioneer motor bus entrepreneurs. I get the feeling that Cox and Rooksby weren't even a formal partnership; just two individuals who had an idea for a bus service and "ran it up the flagpole to see who saluted". With only their surnames to go on it's going to be difficult to track them down.
There are other mysteries arising out of the BME story (post #697):
It is said that BME began trials early in 1903 with Milnes-Daimler "waggonettes" previously owned by Bexhill Motor Co "for about three years". The trouble is, Milnes-Daimler Ltd was only established (as a joint venture between Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft and George F Milnes and Co Ltd) on 27 November 1902. So they couldn't have built waggonettes in about 1900. Perhaps the ex-Bexhill vehicles were by Daimler (Motoren Gesellschaft) like the Davidson and Greener buses. I can't find any information about Bexhill Motor Co and its early motor bus experiment.
Another problem: if Milnes-Daimler started on 27 November 1902, that's somewhat too late even to make "Cambria" (allegedly their first bus) for Portsmouth and Gosport Motors Ltd seen by the Birmingham "party of gentlemen" in January 1902. I suspect that Milnes-Daimler began operations earlier than 27 Nov 1902, which was perhaps the date it was registered as a limited company. More information would be useful.
I also wonder if it's true that the bodies of Milnes-Daimlers O264-O269 were built at Milnes's Castle Car Works at Hadley. Of course it would be great if they were manufactured in the Midlands, but I wonder ... Milnes-Daimler was based in London, so why would the bodies have been made in Shropshire? I believe that the Castle Car Works was in decline in this period. Again more information would be useful.
I also wonder if Motor Touring Co Ltd heard of on 12 December 1898 had any connection with Llandudno Coaching and Carriage Co Ltd (LCC) which I believe was established about this time. I have a note that LCC was established by George Woodyatt and John Jarvis in 1897, but I don't remember where I found this. Daimler did export some of its very earliest buses to Wales. Bit of a long shot, but it would be a "nice" coincidence in view of the later connection between LCC and Midland Red.
, Mike and Lloyd, for that information on Arthur Harvey Rooksby who could well be one of the "Cox and Rooksby" duo of pioneer motor bus entrepreneurs. I get the feeling that Cox and Rooksby weren't even a formal partnership; just two individuals who had an idea for a bus service and "ran it up the flagpole to see who saluted". With only their surnames to go on it's going to be difficult to track them down.There are other mysteries arising out of the BME story (post #697):
It is said that BME began trials early in 1903 with Milnes-Daimler "waggonettes" previously owned by Bexhill Motor Co "for about three years". The trouble is, Milnes-Daimler Ltd was only established (as a joint venture between Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft and George F Milnes and Co Ltd) on 27 November 1902. So they couldn't have built waggonettes in about 1900. Perhaps the ex-Bexhill vehicles were by Daimler (Motoren Gesellschaft) like the Davidson and Greener buses. I can't find any information about Bexhill Motor Co and its early motor bus experiment.
Another problem: if Milnes-Daimler started on 27 November 1902, that's somewhat too late even to make "Cambria" (allegedly their first bus) for Portsmouth and Gosport Motors Ltd seen by the Birmingham "party of gentlemen" in January 1902. I suspect that Milnes-Daimler began operations earlier than 27 Nov 1902, which was perhaps the date it was registered as a limited company. More information would be useful.
I also wonder if it's true that the bodies of Milnes-Daimlers O264-O269 were built at Milnes's Castle Car Works at Hadley. Of course it would be great if they were manufactured in the Midlands, but I wonder ... Milnes-Daimler was based in London, so why would the bodies have been made in Shropshire? I believe that the Castle Car Works was in decline in this period. Again more information would be useful.
I also wonder if Motor Touring Co Ltd heard of on 12 December 1898 had any connection with Llandudno Coaching and Carriage Co Ltd (LCC) which I believe was established about this time. I have a note that LCC was established by George Woodyatt and John Jarvis in 1897, but I don't remember where I found this. Daimler did export some of its very earliest buses to Wales. Bit of a long shot, but it would be a "nice" coincidence in view of the later connection between LCC and Midland Red.
Thylacine
master brummie
The only other Midlands Cox in my records is W F Cox who was Secretary of BET subsidiary South Staffordshire Tramways (Lessee) Co Ltd in June 1905 (at which time our friend R W Cramp was Traffic Manager!). There's no reason in the world (except for the name) why this should be one of the "Cox and Rooksby" duo, but if we could find out more about W F Cox it might eliminate him absolutely as a possible contender.
Thylacine
master brummie
Mulliner? Napier?
Another question: does anyone have any information about the bus manufacturer Mulliner who made three vehicles for BME in October 1903. Or Napier the engine-maker for that matter.
Lloyd, could you possibly upload the picture of the Mulliner bus from Midland Red Volume 1 (page 14 bottom right)? It's a fairly poor picture, but it's all we have and is full of interest (it might have been posted already but I can't find it). I believe this picture came from the Alec Jenson collection.
Another question: does anyone have any information about the bus manufacturer Mulliner who made three vehicles for BME in October 1903. Or Napier the engine-maker for that matter.
Lloyd, could you possibly upload the picture of the Mulliner bus from Midland Red Volume 1 (page 14 bottom right)? It's a fairly poor picture, but it's all we have and is full of interest (it might have been posted already but I can't find it). I believe this picture came from the Alec Jenson collection.
Thylacine
master brummie
Milnes-Daimler 1902.
Here's an interesting picture from a 1902 Milnes-Daimler catalogue (courtesy Daimler Global Media Site):
Here's an interesting picture from a 1902 Milnes-Daimler catalogue (courtesy Daimler Global Media Site):
Lloyd
master brummie
George Frederick Milnes' 'G.F. Milnes & Co Ltd' of Birkenhead (registered 10 Sept 1898) was a tramcar manufacturer who also had premises at Hadley, near Wellington, Shropshire. A previous venture, jointly with Albert Hughes, building tramcars at 227-241 Cleveland St, Birkenhead was dissolved in October 1898, but I think the premises were retained.
The company was wound up as per this notice in the London Gazette for 1 Sept 1903:
"In the Matter of the Companies Acts, and in the Matter
of GEORGE F. MILNES AND CO. Ltd. NOTICE is hereby given, that the creditors of the
above named Company are required, on or before
the 15th day of October next, to send in their names and
addresses, and particulars of their debts or claims, and
the names and addresses of their Solicitors (if any) to
Max Meyer, of the Castle Car Works, Hadley, near
Wellington, Shropshire, the Liquidator of the said Company
; and, if so required, by notice in writing from the
said Liquidator, are by their Solicitors, to come in
and prove their debts or claims at such time and
place as shall be specified in such notice, or in default
thereof they will be excluded from the benefit of any
distribution made before such debts are proved.—Dated
this 26th day of August, 1903.
F. J. LESLIE and CO., 15, Union-court, Castlestreet,
Liverpool, Solicitors to the above named
Liquidator."
Various suppliers and associates filed orders against GFM & Co shortly afterwards.
A consortium of businesses involving Thomas Tilling Ltd, W.A. Stevens & Co Ltd, and Sankey Ironfounders amongst others purchased the Castle Car Works in order to produce motor omnibuses (Tilling Stevens), the premises were ideal and there being a supply of suitably trained staff nearby (see below). Right at the last minute, when the deal was too late to be reversed, a clause was noticed in the sale that the works could not be used for the 'Construction of tramcars or vehicles that might compete with tramcars', the Milnes family retaining its tramcar works in Birkenhead at this time. Sankeys, later part of the GKN group, took on the factory and it subsequently produced cast iron baths, toilet cisterns and the like. This is the factory site today.
Milnes took on the import of German Daimler commercial vehicles and chassis at a date unkown to me, similarly the British Damler company was formed to import and sell Daimler cars. (The latter also used the site of Carlyle Road Works for body production before selling it to BMMO).
Meanwhile Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft renamed its products, using the first name of their sales director's daughter - Mercedes Jellinek.
Yes Milnes would have built bodies for some of the British Milnes Daimlers, but not at Hadley after 1903.
Garcke's BET and the Loughborough based Brush company were taking control of non-municipal tramways, so Milnes' American-based tram designs soon fell from favour.
Wikipedia has this to say on the subject:
"The world's first motorised bus was built in Germany by Karl Benz in 1895, some years before Gottlieb Daimler also started to build and sell buses in Germany as well. By 1898 both Karl Benz and Gottlieb Daimler, then rivals, were exporting their buses to Wales and England. Soon Daimler products were sold in the British Empire in a partnership with the British company Milnes. Milnes-Daimler developed a double-decker in 1902 and provided a bus for the first motorised bus service in the United Kingdom the following year. Though the company met success in selling buses throughout the British Empire, the partnership between Daimler and Milnes had to be undone due to the First World War."
Re the Llandudno connection, there were several (horse and motor) coach propreitors in the district, several using 'motor', 'coaching' and/or 'touring' in their names. Several used colours, too - Royal Blue, Royal Red, Whiteways, Purple (Bethesda), etc. I don't think we can link up Motor Touring with anyone else we know in the area.
The company was wound up as per this notice in the London Gazette for 1 Sept 1903:
"In the Matter of the Companies Acts, and in the Matter
of GEORGE F. MILNES AND CO. Ltd. NOTICE is hereby given, that the creditors of the
above named Company are required, on or before
the 15th day of October next, to send in their names and
addresses, and particulars of their debts or claims, and
the names and addresses of their Solicitors (if any) to
Max Meyer, of the Castle Car Works, Hadley, near
Wellington, Shropshire, the Liquidator of the said Company
; and, if so required, by notice in writing from the
said Liquidator, are by their Solicitors, to come in
and prove their debts or claims at such time and
place as shall be specified in such notice, or in default
thereof they will be excluded from the benefit of any
distribution made before such debts are proved.—Dated
this 26th day of August, 1903.
F. J. LESLIE and CO., 15, Union-court, Castlestreet,
Liverpool, Solicitors to the above named
Liquidator."
Various suppliers and associates filed orders against GFM & Co shortly afterwards.
A consortium of businesses involving Thomas Tilling Ltd, W.A. Stevens & Co Ltd, and Sankey Ironfounders amongst others purchased the Castle Car Works in order to produce motor omnibuses (Tilling Stevens), the premises were ideal and there being a supply of suitably trained staff nearby (see below). Right at the last minute, when the deal was too late to be reversed, a clause was noticed in the sale that the works could not be used for the 'Construction of tramcars or vehicles that might compete with tramcars', the Milnes family retaining its tramcar works in Birkenhead at this time. Sankeys, later part of the GKN group, took on the factory and it subsequently produced cast iron baths, toilet cisterns and the like. This is the factory site today.
Milnes took on the import of German Daimler commercial vehicles and chassis at a date unkown to me, similarly the British Damler company was formed to import and sell Daimler cars. (The latter also used the site of Carlyle Road Works for body production before selling it to BMMO).
Meanwhile Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft renamed its products, using the first name of their sales director's daughter - Mercedes Jellinek.
Yes Milnes would have built bodies for some of the British Milnes Daimlers, but not at Hadley after 1903.
Garcke's BET and the Loughborough based Brush company were taking control of non-municipal tramways, so Milnes' American-based tram designs soon fell from favour.
Wikipedia has this to say on the subject:
"The world's first motorised bus was built in Germany by Karl Benz in 1895, some years before Gottlieb Daimler also started to build and sell buses in Germany as well. By 1898 both Karl Benz and Gottlieb Daimler, then rivals, were exporting their buses to Wales and England. Soon Daimler products were sold in the British Empire in a partnership with the British company Milnes. Milnes-Daimler developed a double-decker in 1902 and provided a bus for the first motorised bus service in the United Kingdom the following year. Though the company met success in selling buses throughout the British Empire, the partnership between Daimler and Milnes had to be undone due to the First World War."
Re the Llandudno connection, there were several (horse and motor) coach propreitors in the district, several using 'motor', 'coaching' and/or 'touring' in their names. Several used colours, too - Royal Blue, Royal Red, Whiteways, Purple (Bethesda), etc. I don't think we can link up Motor Touring with anyone else we know in the area.
Thylacine
master brummie
Llandudno Motor Buses 1898.
It seems the the first Llandudno buses were by Benz, not Daimler (the reference to Birmingham is fascinating):
A lot speaks in favor of quoting the year 1898 as the start of motorized bus operation. In that year, Benz supplied three twelve-seaters to Llandudno in Wales where they were operated on excursion routes throughout the summer. In this case, the design was based on a horse-drawn bus concept known as the Kremser Pate, an open vehicle with soft-top, driven by a 15 hp two-cylinder engine. At the time, the Birmingham Daily Mail, reporting on a planned city bus line, wrote: "Since they coped well with the tough conditions encountered on Welsh roads and in the Welsh mountains, there need be no worries concerning their suitability for the forthcoming line service in Birmingham."
From this interesting article at Daimler Global Media Site.
It seems the the first Llandudno buses were by Benz, not Daimler (the reference to Birmingham is fascinating):
A lot speaks in favor of quoting the year 1898 as the start of motorized bus operation. In that year, Benz supplied three twelve-seaters to Llandudno in Wales where they were operated on excursion routes throughout the summer. In this case, the design was based on a horse-drawn bus concept known as the Kremser Pate, an open vehicle with soft-top, driven by a 15 hp two-cylinder engine. At the time, the Birmingham Daily Mail, reporting on a planned city bus line, wrote: "Since they coped well with the tough conditions encountered on Welsh roads and in the Welsh mountains, there need be no worries concerning their suitability for the forthcoming line service in Birmingham."
From this interesting article at Daimler Global Media Site.
Lloyd
master brummie
Re: Milnes-Daimler 1902.
24 seater, yes - four banks of five seats=20, and four sharing the front bench with the driver - three to his left and one to his right!
"I'm turning right here - stick your arm out, would you?"
24 seater, yes - four banks of five seats=20, and four sharing the front bench with the driver - three to his left and one to his right!
"I'm turning right here - stick your arm out, would you?"
Thylacine
master brummie
Perhaps the gentleman to the right of the driver is the signalman! 
I wonder where the conductor (and his ladder) are going to fit? Perhaps he's going to "hang on behind". The dog seems to be looking at something more interesting than the new-fangled "motor buzz".
The mention of gold medals at Liverpool and Glasgow in 1901 means that M-D must have started before 1902.
I wonder where the conductor (and his ladder) are going to fit? Perhaps he's going to "hang on behind". The dog seems to be looking at something more interesting than the new-fangled "motor buzz".The mention of gold medals at Liverpool and Glasgow in 1901 means that M-D must have started before 1902.
Thylacine
master brummie
2010-06-28 09:07:31
[From "Automobile Notes" (by J W) in Page's Magazine (June 1904). I think "Fisher" should be "Fischer" (the US pioneer of the petrol electric vehicle).]
The Parade of Trade Motor Vehicles.
There were eighty-two vehicles represented in the Parade of Motor Vehicles held by the Automobile Club on the Victoria Embankment, London. These included sixty-nine steam vehicles, twelve petrol, and one electric vehicle. Ten prizes fell to vehicles made by the Thornycroft Steam Wagon Company, and among the makers of the other successful vehicles, the Lancashire Steam Motor Company and the Straker Steam Wagon Company were prominent. The prize vehicles also included a Wallis Tractor and Trailer, a Foden Tractor and Trailer, a Fisher Petrol Electric Van, a Milnes Daimler 'Bus and a Milnes Delivery Van, a vehicle by Clarkson, Ltd., and a White Steam Van.
[From "Automobile Notes" (by J W) in Page's Magazine (June 1904). I think "Fisher" should be "Fischer" (the US pioneer of the petrol electric vehicle).]
The Parade of Trade Motor Vehicles.
There were eighty-two vehicles represented in the Parade of Motor Vehicles held by the Automobile Club on the Victoria Embankment, London. These included sixty-nine steam vehicles, twelve petrol, and one electric vehicle. Ten prizes fell to vehicles made by the Thornycroft Steam Wagon Company, and among the makers of the other successful vehicles, the Lancashire Steam Motor Company and the Straker Steam Wagon Company were prominent. The prize vehicles also included a Wallis Tractor and Trailer, a Foden Tractor and Trailer, a Fisher Petrol Electric Van, a Milnes Daimler 'Bus and a Milnes Delivery Van, a vehicle by Clarkson, Ltd., and a White Steam Van.
Thylacine
master brummie
Lloyd, I love the picture of 50 staff at Castle Car Works (post #649). Most of them have their arms folded (like a football team!), and there's not a smile in sight (serious business this photography). There are some very young boys in the front row (even they're looking serious). Any idea of the date?
Lloyd
master brummie
Re: Mulliner? Napier?
Here is a bit about Mulliners, although it does not mention the coach and bus bodies they made, including this Douglas, Isle of Man, Guy Vixen now at Wythall.
Here is a bit about Mulliners, although it does not mention the coach and bus bodies they made, including this Douglas, Isle of Man, Guy Vixen now at Wythall.
Thylacine
master brummie
Here's a Mulliners body plate from an old Rolls Royce (original registration OJ3536 so circa 1933?) featured on this website:
Thylacine
master brummie
D Napier and Son Ltd.
It seems likely that the "Napier" who made the engines for BME Mulliner bus "251" and charabancs "291-292" was D Napier and Son Ltd, established by David Napier (1785-1873) in 1808 at Soho, London, for the manufacture of printing machinery. The firm moved to Lambeth in 1830, where hydraulic hoists and other machinery were manufactured. The business was continued by David Napier's son James Murdoch Napier (1823-1895), whose son Montague Stanley Napier (1870-1931) took over on his father's death. By 1898 Montague Napier was experimenting with motor car engines. Soon he was building cars, and a green Napier driven by Selwyn Francis Edge won the 1902 Gordon Bennett Cup, the colour being subsequently adopted as "British racing green". In 1904 Montague Napier introduced the first commercially successful six-cylinder car. He died on 23 January 1931, leaving a fortune of £1,200,000. Pictured below is the victorious 1902 Napier with S F Edge and M S Napier.
The Wikipedia article mentions Mulliners of Northampton as the makers of aluminium bodies for the first Napier cars in 1900, but Mulliners of Brum were a different company (though sharing a common ancestor).
Do we know for certain that it was the Birmingham Mulliner who made the BME vehicles? Perhaps Napier made the chassis as well as the engines.
It seems likely that the "Napier" who made the engines for BME Mulliner bus "251" and charabancs "291-292" was D Napier and Son Ltd, established by David Napier (1785-1873) in 1808 at Soho, London, for the manufacture of printing machinery. The firm moved to Lambeth in 1830, where hydraulic hoists and other machinery were manufactured. The business was continued by David Napier's son James Murdoch Napier (1823-1895), whose son Montague Stanley Napier (1870-1931) took over on his father's death. By 1898 Montague Napier was experimenting with motor car engines. Soon he was building cars, and a green Napier driven by Selwyn Francis Edge won the 1902 Gordon Bennett Cup, the colour being subsequently adopted as "British racing green". In 1904 Montague Napier introduced the first commercially successful six-cylinder car. He died on 23 January 1931, leaving a fortune of £1,200,000. Pictured below is the victorious 1902 Napier with S F Edge and M S Napier.
The Wikipedia article mentions Mulliners of Northampton as the makers of aluminium bodies for the first Napier cars in 1900, but Mulliners of Brum were a different company (though sharing a common ancestor).
Do we know for certain that it was the Birmingham Mulliner who made the BME vehicles? Perhaps Napier made the chassis as well as the engines.