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Midland Red Early Days

Thanks gentlemen!

2010-04-18 00:15:05

Peter, thanks for that information on Jenson's book. I'm going to try to get hold of a copy, but I suspect it will be harder to find than the Gray, Keeley and Seale "Bible". Your memories of that 1958 lecture series are fascinating — I wish I could take a Tardis trip and listen in! I turned nine in that year, and was actually living in Birmingham (Yardley). It wasn't until I was living in Sutton a few years later that I became interested buses in general and Midland Red in particular. I can understand why Jenson's book is "confusing and contradictory": the subject is intrinsically difficult to present in a readable style. I'm currently working on a piece on Midland Red's first motor buses (1905-1907) and getting even that short period straight and clear is proving very difficult! Still it is always valuable to learn from those who have researched from original documents, contemporary newspapers, etc. The work of pioneers like Jenson must be preserved and passed on.

Mike, thanks for your continuing interest and assistance. Dr Church (I must always call him that now!) must have gone to ground somewhere after the steam-bus fiasco! Whether as a "civil engineer" or a "playing card maker" or even a physician again, who can tell? Quite possibly he left Birmingham for greener pastures. His Wikipedia biography is fairly sketchy about his later life (except for the "Surprise" locomotive). It is a fascinating period of public transport history (but a bit of a stretch to relate it to Midland Red!).
 
Found Jenson!

Peter W, I've already found and ordered Alec Jenson's book at Biblio.co.uk (excuse the ad!). I should be poring over it in about a week's time. Isn't cyberspace wonderful?
 
Volume 1 of Conrad Gill's 'History of Birmingham', published in 1952 has the usual three-quarter view of Dr Queen's coach opposite page 291 which has the following text.
"In Birmingham two inventors made and worked steam carriages as early as the 1830s. First in 1832 Heaton ran a coach about the streets of Birmingham and out into the country, at an average speed of of eight miles per hour. On one occasion he gave a ride to 30 boys. He made journeys at about the same speed to Wolverhampton and Coventry.
Dr Church's carriage, made shortly afterwards, was rather larger, for it would take 40 passengers, and it travelled at ten miles an hour. It ran to Worcester, then to Stonebridge, on the Coventry Road. Although there was mechanical trouble on this journey, the the carriage was held to have performed well, and to have opened up great possibilities of travel by road. But the possibilities were not realised for many years. Roads were rough and the mechanical coaches were clumsy. Rail transport was much quicker, more comfortable, far more reliable, and steam locomotion on the roads was opposed by various interests, especially by riders on horseback and drivers of horse drawn vehicles. [Not to mention the Turnpike Trusts - PW]
Dr William Church, the designer of one of the coaches, was a persistent inventor, who took out more than seventy patents, and clearly had much ability, but never gained any substantial reward for all his efforts. He was an American, trained to medicine, but more interested in mechanical pursuits. In 1818, at the age of 40 he came to England and settled in Birmingham, probably because the variety of industries would give wide scope for the application of his ideas. His inventions included a steam engine; a ticket machine; a printing press with mechanical typesetting; smelting with anthracite and with a hot blast; a breech-loading gun; and processes in the manufacture of nails, buttons, hooks and eyes. Moreover it was said that he was the first to suggest the manufacture of bedsteads from metal tubes and bars. He stayed in Birmingham for just over forty years, then returned to end his days at his daughter's house in the United States.
On page 308, the story is taken up again, this time by Tangye Bros.
"Although the early coaches failed to gain public approval, engineers had never wholly lost interest in the idea. The Tangye brothers addressed their minds to the building of a steam coach, and in 1862 produced one which proved very efficient: it carried ten people and travelled at more than twenty miles an hour. To the great annoyance of the inventors an Act of Parliament prohibited travel by such vehicles at more than four miles an hour, and so cut short the experiment.
It is impossible to say whether this steam carriage would have fared much better than its predecessors. Sir Richard tangy believed that it would. He described this policy in Parliament as 'bovine', and wrote, in 1905, that apart from this opposition, 'the manufacture of motor cars would have taken root in England forty years ago.'"
Peter
 
Congratulations, Thylacine, on locating a copy of Jenson's book while I was in the middle of copying out the last post. But, with respect, isn't it past your bedtime?
Peter
 
Eileenjwild, greetings and welcome to the thread! Er ... which bus would that be?

Peter, yes, you caught me "burning the midnight oil"! (2 am actually). All rested and refreshed now.
 
The Heatons Go To Broomsgrove 28 August 1833.

2010-04-18 09:56:50

The Birmingham Journal (Monday 2 Sep 1833).

Steam Carriage.

On Wednesday last [28 Aug 1833], our townsmen Messrs Heaton (brothers) made another experiment with their steam coach, to ascend the hill at Broomsgrove [sic] Lickey, which is a loose sandy surface, so much so, that the wheels of their machine (about fifty hundred weight) carried a hill of sand before them about three inches deep. The hill is about seven hundred yards along, and rises on an average one yard in nine, and in some places one yard in eight, and is declared by eminent surveyors to be the worst piece of road in the kingdom. This hill was mounted by their machine, with a stage coach attached, fifteen hundred weight, and nine persons, in nine minutes, in the presence of about two hundred spectators.

They then took up their friends, twenty in number, they had brought from Birmingham, making twenty five, and proceeded on to Groomsgrove [sic], as far as the Market place; there they turned the machine round, and returned to the Crab Mill Inn, about fifteen miles; this was accomplished in two hours and twenty two minutes, including all stoppages. Having staid [sic] a considerable time at the Crab Mill Inn, they returned home, calling at the various places on the road where they had before called in the morning, and receiving the congratulation of their friends at having accomplished the greatest undertaking in the history of steam locomotion on the common road. They arrived in Birmingham, bringing with them, up Worcester street, an ascent of one yard in twelve, thirty two persons.

[Quoted in The Pittsburgh Gazette (24 Oct 1833). Accessed through Google News 18 Apr 2010.]

[Was Bromsgrove really called "Broomsgrove" in those days? "Groomsgrove" is surely a misprint. One gets the impression of a very convivial lunch at the Crab Mill. Journalists must have been paid by the word in those days! OK, this is positively my last post on the 1830s steam carriage experiment.]
 
The 1835 Pigots directory certainly calls it Bromsgrove, though it does say that it was
“ anciently called Bremesgrave”
Mike

 
Help for Eileen.

[FONT=&quot]2010-04-18 10:19:34

Eileen, I suspect you're having trouble attaching your Grandfather's picture to your post. If so, here's a step-by-step recipe (I hope I've got it right!):

Click on EDIT POST.
Click on GO ADVANCED.
Click on MANAGE ATTACHMENTS.
Click on ADD FILES.
Click on SELECT FILES.
Select the picture file on your computer.
Click on OPEN.
Click on UPLOAD FILES.
This should put the picture in the "Attachments Area".
Click on INSERT ATTACHMENT.
Click on SAVE CHANGES.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And Bob's your uncle! Or your Grandfather :rolleyes:.

I'm looking forward to seeing your Grandfather and his bus. [/FONT]
 
Thanks, Mike. Probably "Broomsgrove" was also a typo of the Pittsburgh editor. "Bremesgrave" is an interesting early form. I've often wondered if the "brom" in Bromsgrove and Bromwich is related to the "Brum" in Birmingham!
 
The history of the Heaton brothers trip to Bromsgrove is fascinating, it must have been the first motorised 'excursion' in that area, typical in even stopping at a pub on the way home! The Crabmill is still there, just on the outskirts of Bromsgrove on Birmingham Road.
I wonder if they returned the same way and tested the brakes at Lickey, or the less hilly road via Rubery - thus becoming the ancestor of the 144 route!
 
Bromsgrove Anyone?

Ah Lloyd, thanks for that Midland Red connection! The Crabmill must be an old pub. Good place for a re-enactment: period costume, Tom Brogden's replica of Walter Hancock's steam bus "Enterprise", Lloyd at the tiller (no drinks for you!).
 
Yes, I'd do that (really? No drinks? Don't you know that in steam-men's parlance "The machinery always runs better when the operator is well oiled!") I've always fancied a go at the replica 'Enterprise'. I have driven another of Tom Brogden's replicas, the Trevithick London Steam Carriage when it visited the Black Country Living Museum a few years ago, quite a beast to control!
 
That would be worth visiting the UK for (a man can dream). Actually "Enterprise" has a steering wheel, not a tiller. The world's oldest steering wheel?
 
Thylacine said:
Thanks, Mike. Probably "Broomsgrove" was also a typo of the Pittsburgh editor. "Bremesgrave" is an interesting early form. I've often wondered if the "brom" in Bromsgrove and Bromwich is related to the "Brum" in Birmingham!
Click to expand...

Talking of the 144 route the Midland Red D9 EHA424D was in Brum yesterday on the 144 route https://my.bus.photos.fotopic.net/c904421.html I had forgot it was doing the run I now wish I had gone on it
 
Morning, all
I've been down the bottom of the barrel again and have found this reference to Dr Church's steam carriage in Langford's 'Century of Birmingham Life', quoting from Aris's Gazette:


"DR. CHURCH'S STEAM CARRIAGE.
This carriage made a successful trip on Saturday, on the London Road, as far as Stone Bridge. Mr. Harrison, who had the charge of it, after making two or three essays in the immediate vicinity of the works, took it out through the Small Heath Gate in good style, passing along the Coventry Road at a rapid rate. It ascended the hills with perfect ease at the rate of full ten miles per hour — in fact they appeared to offer no impediment; and Mr. Harrison is of opinion that no hills to be found on the turnpike roads would oppose any considerable resistance to its progress. On its return an accident happened to one of its gauge cocks which rendered it necessary to blow off the steam and take out the fire, further than which it was not of the least importance.
This trial is stated to be decisive of the capabilities of the carriage in the following important respects, viz: as to taking sufficient fuel and water for any requisite distance (neither having been supplied between Birmingham and Stone Bridge), as to the keeping up of a continual supply of steam; and above all, as to its power of ascending hills with facility; and there is not a doubt in the minds of those who superintended and assisted in the trial that it will take heavy loads at great speed upon any ordinary turnpike roads. Not the slightest inconvenience was experienced from steam or smoke, and many horses were passed on the road without occasioning any alarm.
In the same year another steam coach, that of Mr. Heaton appeared in the streets, and performed various journeys to neighbouring towns, carrying upwards of thirty passengers, and travelling at the rate of eight miles an hour, including stoppages."


Peter

 
Bammot, thanks for the fine pictures of 5424, which must be Roger Burdett's pride and joy! The 144 is my earliest Midland Red memory. As long ago as 1954 I used to commute between Droitwich and Fernhill Heath on it (not D9s then of course!).

Any idea what that white double-decker is in the shot of 5424 pulling out?
 
Peter, thanks for digging into your lovely library again! We now learn of "steam bus" driver Mr Harrison for the first time. Can you tell the exact date of the Saturday referred to? Dr Church's outing to "Stone Bridge" must be the progenitor of Midland Red service 16 (Birmingham - Elmdon - Stonebridge - Meriden - Allesley - Coventry). Motorman Mike will know what the 16 later became. [You'll note from the time of this post that my sleep patterns are very erratic!]
 
Getting back to Midland Red ...

[FONT=&quot]2010-04-19 06:04:49

Who Put the Red in "Midland Red"?

The accepted story is that the origin of Midland Red's bold livery dates to the era of the Birmingham General Omnibus Co Ltd (BGO). BGO was established in April 1897 by Birmingham financier Claude Tebbitt as a holding company for his horse bus interests. The new company was well cashed up, with a capital of £90,000 made up of 45,000 £1 "cumulative preference" shares and an equal number of £1 ordinary shares. The BGO fleet boasted some 70 buses and a stud of over 500 horses; former bus proprietor Charles Lane of Small Heath was managing director. The stark purpose of the company was "to effect a monopoly of the omnibus system in Birmingham". It is interesting to note that the BGO directors reserved the right "to run motor cars on any ... routes whenever ... profitable to do so". For all its bold plans, BGO failed in September 1899 and passed to the official receiver.

The brash young British Electric Traction Co Ltd (BET) purchased the BGO assets, no doubt at a knock-down price! On 27 September 1899 BET began operating the "BGO Department" under the youthful leadership of 32 year old Richard Robert Fairbairn (manager) and 20 year old Orlando Cecil Power (secretary).

This is where the colour red enters the story. Early in 1900, the BGO Department ordered some buses from the London-based Birch Brothers Ltd. I'm not sure what the previous BGO livery was, but the new buses were to be painted red, since that was "the most conspicuous colour". On 1 January 1902 the BGO Department was transferred to the control of Birmingham & Midland Tramways Co Ltd (BMT). As Midland Red Volume 1 states (and Hardy agrees): "So the name Midland 'Red' was coined".

A lovely story, which seems to wrap everything up neatly. But it was three years until Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Co Ltd (BMMO) came into existence, operations not beginning until 1 August 1905. BMMO inherited 119 horse buses, indeed including the red BMT buses acquired in 1900. But the motor bus fleet was (as far as is known) anything but red! Of the six 1903 Milnes-Daimler double-deckers (registered O264-269) we are told almost everything but the livery. Nine more powerful Milne-Daimlers (O1270-1275) of 1904-1905 were painted "natural wood with green wheels lined yellow". The 1905 Dürkopp (O1280) was "lake with yellow panels and wheels", and the 1905 Wolseley (O1281) was "chocolate" (did it ever travel to Bournville?). There were also four 1905 Dürkopps (O1301-1304) inherited from City of Birmingham Tramways Co Ltd (CBT), but the livery of these is not revealed to us. The only other motor bus in the fleet was a 1905 Thornycroft on hire from London Motor Omnibus Co Ltd (later well-known for the "Vanguard" fleetname), but again we are not told the livery. Nine Brush B double-deckers were acquired in 1906-1907, appearing in green livery with the BET "magnet and wheel" logo on the side panels.

So red certainly did not predominate in the BMMO motor bus fleet of 1905-1907. After motor buses were withdrawn on 5 October 1907, BMMO ran only horse buses for over four years. Perhaps it is during these years that red became the colour of choice, but we are told precious little about these horse buses (and of course the contemporary pictures aren't much help). When motor buses were re-introduced in April and May 1912, they took the form of 13 Tilling-Stevens TTA1s (O8200-8212), which again carried the "magnet and wheel" logo. I presume these buses were painted red, though I can't find a categorical statement of this. We do know that the fleetname "Midland" first appeared the following year on the Tilling-Stevens TTA2s (O9930-9936 and so on). So it could be argued that the name "Midland Red" was born in 1913! [/FONT]
 
Certainly the extant body of O 9926 had red paint underneath the later Birmingham Corporation blue and cream - so the TTA2s were red (lower decks, the upper deck panels were black, but hose were missing from the body as found).
 
Thanks for that Lloyd. Any idea of the livery on the ex-CBT Dürkopps or the old Milnes-Daimlers (O264-269)?

I think you'll like my next post (you've probably already made the discovery though).
 
Huge Bus Picture Website.

[FONT=&quot]2010-04-19 10:57:26

I recently came across the Scran website, a massive database containing some 360,000 images, movies and sounds from a variety of sources. Scran is the trading arm of the registered charity Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Scotland (RCAHMS), so naturally most of the images are Scottish or related to Scotland. Part of the database is the "Robert Grieves Archive" (now in the care of the Scottish Motor Museum Trust), which contains well over 10,000 pictures related to road transport. Just to give you an idea of what a treasure-trove this is for the public transport enthusiast, here's a list of the number of pictures returned by certain basic search terms: bus 7,752; charabanc 666; coach 1,689; horse bus 57; omnibus 317; steam bus 7; Tilling 134; tram 1,403; tramway 484.

The downside is that you will only be able to see "thumbnail" images for free. A subscription gives you access to full-sized images, and permits you to download them (for personal use). If you succumb to temptation (as I did!), an annual subscription will cost you about £13. Six-month subscriptions are also available. I have only begun to explore this rich source of pictures. Here are just three of the gems so far discovered (search on the registrations):

Edinburgh Corporation # 4 (1914 Tilling-Stevens TS3 registered S4443). This passed to Midland Red (along with S4444 and S4445) as fleet number A264 in 1918 with "Scottish Motor Transport" charabanc body (C7), though the two Scran pictures show it before and after fleetname transfers, with a rear-entrance "Leyland built Edinburgh" bus body. Midland Red rebuilt it to 14 ft 6 in wheelbase and fitted body BB126 (Tilling B29F) in 1918. It lasted (with two further body changes) until 1923.

Midland Red # A1162 (1931 SOS IM4 registered HA6166) seen at Rugby on local service R79 to Cobbett St. This bus was formerly a 1930 SOS COD ("Clarke's Own Design") — see Midland Red Volume 1 (pages 81-83 and 88-92). There's a picture of HA6167 in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 159 top left).

Central SMT # R4 (1936 AEC Regal chassis number 6621927 registered VD6508). This coach had a long and interesting service life. It was new in 1936 as Baillie Brothers (Dumbarton) # 35 with a C32C body. It passed to Central SMT in June 1936; to R W Jackson (Guisborough); to L D Brown (Markfield, Leicestershire); to Wesleys Coaches (Stoke Goldington) # 22 by June 1948; to Jenkins Ltd (Liverpool) in August 1952; to R J Jenkins (Liverpool) in January 1955; to J George (Wirral Coachways, Ellesmere Port) in September 1956. Somewhere along the road it picked up a Pickering FC35F body. L D Brown traded as Browns Blue Coaches (also known as Browns Blue Services) and was bought out by Midland Red on 16 March 1963. This fine coach was long gone by then. In any case, no Browns Blue vehicles passed to Midland Red, though the Markfield depot was used as an outstation of Coalville until 30 June 1968. [I got most of this history from the excellent Wesleys Coaches enthusiasts website.]

Robert Grieves (13 April 1944 – 14 December 2009) was a very remarkable busman: an enthusiast amongst enthusiasts. He even spent some time in the late 1960s driving buses and trams in Australia! Sadly he passed away towards the end of last year at the age of 65. Here[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is an informative and touching obituary from heraldscotland.

[Sadly Lloyd there are no pictures of the ex-Scotland TTA2s (VS225, VS226 and V2216 | VS216) that we have discussed previously. However, there are two fascinating pictures of Scottish Transport VS213 (a TTA1 charabanc with plush seats and "roof").][/FONT]
 
The 1852 Steam Carriage of Richard and George Tangye.

[FONT=&quot]2010-04-19 21:55:08

 [Peter W (#303) reported on his research into the "steam bus", which included mention of the Tangye brothers and their steam carriage. Here's a little more on these motor vehicle pioneers:]

The steam carriage built by the Tangye Brothers [Richard and George Tangye], of England, about 1852, was a simple affair. It had a seating capacity in the body for six or eight persons, while three or four more could be accommodated in front. The driver who sat in front had full control of the stop valve and reversing lever, so that the engine could be stopped or reversed by him as occasion required. The speed of twenty miles an hour could be attained, and the engine with its load easily ascended the steepest gradients.

Richard Tangye, in his autobiography, speaks of his experience with his carriage in the following terms: "Great interest was manifested in our experiment, and it soon became evident that there was an opening for a considerable business in these engines, and we made our preparations accordingly, but the 'wisdom' of Parliament made it impossible. The squires became alarmed lest their horses should take fright; and although a judge ruled that a horse that would not stand the sight or sound of a locomotive, in these days of steam, constituted a public danger, and that its owner should be punished and not the owner of the locomotive, an act was passed providing that no engine should travel more than four miles an hour on the public roads. Thus was the trade in quick-speed locomotives strangled in its cradle, and the inhabitants of country districts left unprovided with improved facilities for travelling." The Tangye carriage thus driven out of England was sent to India, where it continued to give good service.

[Lyman Horace Weeks. Automobile Biographies: An account of the lives and the work of those who have been identified with the invention and development of self-propelled vehicles on the common roads. New York: The Monograph Press, 1905. Accessed via this e-book 19 April 2010. This work provides a readable summary of all these early steam carriage experiments.] [/FONT]
 
Death of the Steam Bus.

[FONT=&quot]2010-04-19 23:02:44

The laws that more or less killed off the steam carriage were enacted in 1861 and 1865. Partial relief was given in 1878, but the worst restrictions were not repealed until 1896, when self-propelled vehicles again became a (legal) possibility.

The Locomotives Act 1861 (24 & 25 Victoria c lxx). Royal assent 1 August 1861.
Limited the weight of "road locomotives" to 12 tons, and set a speed limit of 10 mph on the open road.

The Locomotives Act 1865 (28 & 29 Victoria c lxxxiii). Royal assent 7 July 1865. Commonly known as the "Red Flag Act".
Set a speed limit of 2 mph in towns and 4 mph in the country. Required a "flag man" to walk 60 yards ahead of a "road locomotive" carrying a red flag as a warning to other road users.

The Highways and Locomotives (Amendment) Act 1878 (41 & 42 Victoria c lxxvii). Royal assent 16 August 1878.
Made the "flag man" optional under local government control and reduced the distance from 60 yards to 20 yards. Required "road locomotives" to stop at the sight of a horse, and forbade the emission smoke or steam such as would frighten a horse.

The Locomotives on Highways Act 1896 (59 & 60 Victoria c xxxvi). Royal assent 14 August 1896.
Repealed the most objectionable of the previous restrictions.
[/FONT]
 
Talking of things "Midland Red" last Wednesday I was looking at a Petrol engined REDD, in fact I had my hand on its exhaust manifold!! anyone care to guess where I was? It wasnt Wythall;)
 
Greetings Bill,

I think we have discussed your REDD earlier (post #43):

"That precious surviving REDD (or DD(RE) as Midland Red Volume 1 prefers) you mentioned is fleet number 1418 (reg HA8047). A worthy project by the Black Country Museum Transport Group (https://www.bcmtg.co.uk/). And here (https://bmmo.fotopic.net/p15610538.html) is a nice picture illustrating the challenge. But we can see the battered old number plate as a symbol of hope (and it’s rather a nice shot of the engine)."

Any information is most welcome. How is it coming along?
 
That Scran site has kept me occupied all day! Fascinating stuff, including a BMMO FEDD at Weeping Cross, Stafford (under 'Bus stop made at Lion Foundry'!)
The REDD was first rescued by a member of the Oxford bus Museum, who commenced the restoration. It is awaiting funding at the Black Country Museum Transport group ownership now.
Here it was in the yard at Oxford before moving to Dudley.
 
Lloyd, I was somewhat surprised that Tilling-Stevens buses sold so well in Scotland. And they kept using them for a long time!

Do you know the earlier history of HA8047 (after its life with Midland Red)?
 
Scottish Bus Shelter in Stafford (with FEDD).

Lloyd that's a lovely picture of 1936 FEDD BHA392. Beaconside being in Stafford, I think the service should be S86. It would make a good mystery picture (if only we could upload it) - and for extra points, who made the bus shelter? The FEDD looks fairly new - can you estimate the date of the picture? That strange car in the background might provide a clue. If you get back to me with your thoughts, I'll put some information into the "Correction / Info" area for the pic.

It's funny how relative everything is. To us it's a rather nice picture of a Midland Red FEDD standing at a bus shelter; to them its a mighty fine picture of a Scottish-built bus shelter somewhere "south of the border" (with an old bus!).

There can't be many picture sites where searching on "bus shelter" throws up 49 pictures!

Obviously there are hidden treasures on Scran. Lots of fun!
 
Having conferred with a friend who lived in Stafford, he confirms that it is at the junction of Weeping Cross and Baswich Lane, with the bus facing Stafford. This does not tally with the destination number, (S)86, or the Beaconside destination, which was Weston Rd by the former RAF camp. I can only surmise it is a posed photo and either the bus's last or next journey was on S86. (Leaving the 'S' off was a common Stafford failing!)
[On restudy there are passengers on board, so perhaps the conductor had changed the destinations very early, or it was a through working to the S86, the bus having come from Walton Village or Cannock. I'll confer more with my friend on this point.]
The junction is much altered now, and the single-track road behind the shelter where the Austin 'Atlantic' is parked, facing Lichfield Road, is now much wider, incorporating the site of the old shelter.
The car dates the view to 1949-c1953, the bus, A1833 (registration BHA 392, chassis BMO2286, ) was withdrawn 1955. I'd take the mid-point and say 1951-3.
 
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