Memories of a Birmingham Musician (Drummer)!

[norfolk brummie]

Around 1956/57, and just before I left 'Brum', I was still working in Kay Westworths Music Shop in Snow Hill, although by this time, I was also playing in bands, seven nights a week.

One day two guys walked into the store. Both swarthy, and almost gypsy like in appearance. They spoke a fraction of English, just enough to let me know that one wished to try a violin, and the other a guitar.

Having tuned up the instruments, they started playing. Wonderfully technical players, the music was marvellous. Real gypsy music.

We all gathered round, fascinated by this lovely warm expressive music. After about half an hour of this they handed the instruments back in, and in their own way, thanked us with gestures.

On the Saturday they both came back into the shop, this time with an interpreter, and bought a violin and guitar.

The interpreter told us that they were refugees from the Hungarian Uprising, and had been professional musicians, just managing to get out of Hungary before the Russians closed the borders. The one guy had given his very good watch to a Russian, who had threatened to shoot him.

I had seen, and heard, the very best Hungarian Gypsy music for free, and it had been a real privledge.

Eddie.

 

[I Am Nico]

Around 1956/57, and just before I left 'Brum', I was still working in Kay Westworths Music Shop in Snow Hill, although by this time, I was also playing in bands, seven nights a week.

One day two guys walked into the store. Both swarthy, and almost gypsy like in appearance. They spoke a fraction of English, just enough to let me know that one wished to try a violin, and the other a guitar.

Having tuned up the instruments, they started playing. Wonderfully technical players, the music was marvellous. Real gypsy music.

We all gathered round, fascinated by this lovely warm expressive music. After about half an hour of this they handed the instruments back in, and in their own way, thanked us with gestures.

On the Saturday they both came back into the shop, this time with an interpreter, and bought a violin and guitar.

The interpreter told us that they were refugees from the Hungarian Uprising, and had been professional musicians, just managing to get out of Hungary before the Russians closed the borders. The one guy had given his very good watch to a Russian, who had threatened to shoot him.

I had seen, and heard, the very best Hungarian Gypsy music for free, and it had been a real privledge.



Eddie.

I used to follow some folk bands two of which were Rocky Road and Mulliners Rough. One had a hungarian fiddler in but I forget which band He was mature then and swarthy and when he played he would put on a multi coloured sort of skull cap, his fiddling was superb. A friend of ours in her 80's has some good vinyl of Hungarian and Jewish Gypsy music. They do sort of sing but not in words. And they shout hey or high.

 

[sospiri]

Nice story, Eddie. Whilst we don't get the Hungarian fiddlers here, we do get a band of Serbian gypsies called the Serbian Brass, And the local radio station promotes it every so often. I'll have to see if I can dig out a recording somewhere.

Maurice

 

[oldbrit]

My Sis Joan has a villa in Ibiza. On a visit a few years ago, we went to a festival in a local medieval town, name escapes me. But the music was fascinating. They had a group of Gypsy fiddlers, great stuff, I will never forget the the rhythms pus the strange to my ears, sounds. Of course the belly dancers where worth a look or TWO! John Crump

 

[norfolk brummie]

I have been reminded that, on this day, in 1962, Ringo Starr joined The Beatles.

I then added the following:

Ringo was not good enough to play on their first recording, under George Martin, who called in Andy White, a session drummer, and good friend of mine. While Ringo Starr just sat and watched, Andy played on 'Love Me Do'. However Andy did invite Ringo to play the maracas on the 'B' side 'P.S, I Love You'.

I also pointed out that Ringo Starr did not play on all of The Beatles major tour concerts.

In June 1964, Jimmy Nicholl was sitting at home, in his words "pottering around", when at 3pm he was summoned to the studio by George Martin. Ringo Starr had been taken ill with tonsillitis. This was as the band were about to commence a tour of Australia. After running through around 18 numbers together, the band left for Australia via Denmark, The Nederlands and Hong Kong, where Jimmy played on all the shows, and the first shows in Australia until Ringo Starr rejoined the band in Melbourne.

Jimmy returned to the U.K. and obscurity. He received £500 for his work.

Eddie.

The Beatles, with Jimmy Nicholl on drums.

 

[Smudger]

Around 1956/57, and just before I left 'Brum', I was still working in Kay Westworths Music Shop in Snow Hill, although by this time, I was also playing in bands, seven nights a week.
Eddie.

Eddie, you & i may have met. It was around 56/57 i bought a guitar from a city centre shop although the name escapes me. It was a cello type guitar & cost me £11. My playing days were cut short when i developed a poison finger & i can still see the doctor lancing the finger & all the pus sqirting out. I couldn`t play the damn thing anyway but i used to carry it slung over my shoulder to impress the girls. What a poser!!

 

[sospiri]

I presume they never called your bluff then Smudger?

Eddie, good stories and one of the rarer photographs of the Beatles. The maracas reminded of another incident. At the time we did our BBC audition, the vocalist who normally worked with us decided that he wanted to do an audition on his own - "it would be better for my career", he said. The BBC refused to grant him one on that basis, though he did manage to get one with ITV, which didn't lead to any work. When we got our first job for the BBC (detailed elsewhere in this thread), he tagged along but we gave the vocals to another vocalist that the BBC was trying to find work for. But he did get to play the maracas on "Serenata", though the BBC refuses to give him credit for it. That was one gig that he didn't get paid for.

John, glad to hear you approved of the belly dancers and I hope it didn't take your mind off the folk music!

Maurice

 

[guilbert53]

I have been reminded that, on this day, in 1962, Ringo Starr joined The Beatles.

Of course Ringo replaced Pete Best in the band, and I always consider him one of the unluckiest people in the world.

He had slogged around as a member of the Beatles for years, his mother owned a café and had allowed the early band to rehearse and play there.

Yet just months before the Beatles shot to world wide fame he was dumped from the group.

Of course we will never know if the Beatles would have become as big with Pete Best in the band (Ringo was probably more of a "character" than Pete Best so contributed somewhat to the Beatles "fame"), however with songwriters like Lennon and McCartney in the band they were always likely to be big.

So while Ringo went on to become a multi millionaire (and marry Barbara Bach) poor old Pete Best went back to being relatively unknown (and mostly hard up) for the rest of his life (he is still alive and is now 73 years old).

I gather he only made money from the Beatles when they released those Anthology albums a few years ago and Pete Best was featured on some of the "old" songs, so he finally earned some money from being a Beatles member.

(Of course Pete Best may feel that with two of the Beatles now dead he was perhaps the "luckier" than John or George).

p.s. There has been a lot of discussion for years about how Decca turned down the Beatles after listening to a Beatles demo tape. But some of the songs from that demo tape are on the anthology albums, and I have to say they are pretty terrible.

So great credit to George Martin for taking those "rough" band members and turning them into a group that sold millions of records around the world. I really believe that without George Martin the Beatles would never have been so big. The only Beatles album he did not work on was Let It Be, and what a disaster that was.

So thanks again George Martin.

 

[norfolk brummie]

Larrie Londin (correct spelling), was the top drummer in the great Nashville days. He worked with Chet Atkins, Charlie Pride, Olivia Newton John, Dr. Hook, Dean Martin etcetera. They all wanted Larrie on drums.

This included Elvis Presley, and he asked Larrie to join him as his drummer.

Larrie and I met up a few times, including a couple of flying trips, and he would have me laughing at some of his stories.

When he agreed to join Elvis, Larrie was invited to the home of Elvis, to meet him, and discuss the drumming deal. Larrie arrived, and was shown into a huge lounge, being told that Elvis would join him shortly. While waiting Larrie needed to go to the bathroom, and after opening a couple of doors, found the bathroom.

Right in the middle of having a pee, Elvis walked in with a towel around him. So that is how they met, Elvis, half naked, and Larrie with his todger in his hand!

Eddie

Sadly, Larrie is no longer with us.

 

[sospiri]

Good story, Eddie, but I don't think I can add another comment without infringing the Forum rules!

Maurice

 

[norfolk brummie]

Good story, Eddie, but I don't think I can add another comment without infringing the Forum rules!

Maurice

I could not find a more decent way of telling the story, Maurice. It is a story involving a very famous person, and I have told it, as told to me. I hope no one is offended. I know that Larrie and Elvis had a good laugh over it.

Eddie

 

[sospiri]

Eddie,

It most certainly didn't offend me, but like you, I've been around a few years, am not in the least bit politically correct, but do try not to break the rules unless it is unavoidable. Most fora ask that you avoid politics and religion, so I do, and try to stay on thread when it is tightly defined, but sometimes someone tempts me!

Maurice

 

[Shawcross]

Great story...Eddie. I've already repeated it on more than one occasion...except that I inadvertently left out the towel and made it even better...offend anyone? Only the Victorian vicar's wife, circa 1885!!!!!! (and that would have been prompted by suppressed envy...!)

 

[farmerdave]

Hi Eddie. You will need to be in Beverly Hills, LA on December 4th or 5th to be able to purchase the drum kit that Ringo Starr played at the height of Beatlemania. It is expected to sell for £324,000 at auction. Saw this article in The Metro (a London-based freebie newspaper) today. Dave.

 

[norfolk brummie]

Before he became famous, Ringo Starr (Richard Starkey) played British built Premier drums, made in Leicester

After he became famous, and at the height of Beatlemania, he played Ludwig drums, made in Chicago, USA.

In his early years Ringo was not the smartest kid on the block, and when they became famous, he decided he wanted a new Premier drum kit. With Brian Epstein, he walked into Drum City, in Shaftsbury Avenue, London, and spoke to Dave Golding, the store manager, saying that he wanted a new Premier drum kit. Problem was, Drum City were not Premier agents, selling only Ludwig and Hayman drums. Ringo saw a Ludwig Super Classic kit on display, and said he liked it. Brian Epstein bought the kit for Ringo, around £500. The rest is history. The Ludwig drum company went on to build many kits on the back of the Beatles craze. All that happened at Premier was to display the photo of Ringo playing Premier drums, with the slogan underneath...."THE ONE THAT GOT AWAY"!!
This is my old buddie, Dave Golding in his days at Drum City.

Once, when asked if Ringo Starr was the best drummer in the world, John Lennon famously replied "He is not even the best drummer in The Beatles".

Thanks for the sale details, farmerdave. Much appreciated. Believe it or not, we have exactly the same Ludwig kit here in Norfolk. Built by Lugwig for the London stage show about The Beatles, even down to the drum head logo's.

Eddie

 

[norfolk brummie]

Two Birmingham drummers! Myself with Carl Palmer from Emerson, Lake & Palmer (E.L.P). Carl of course, is world famous in the music business, and still has a very successful career''

This is another photograph, taken a few years earlier, also with Carl, plus long hair, on the right. Standing between us is another well known drummer, John Marshall from Nucleus.

Eddie

 

[Viewfinder]

Nice reminders of superb drummers, Eddie. Looking back and enjoying your previous posts - I remember the Drum City showroom on Shaftesbury Avenue; didn't Bob Henrit have a shop round the corner in the Charing Cross Road? Those Hayman drums with distinctive circular lugs - does anyone still play them professionally?

On the Ludwig and Premier debate: I owned a black Ludwig kit bought from Andy Ward of Camel, and one of my drumming heroes, Richard Coughlan of Caravan, played Premier throughout his career.

 

[sospiri]

Eddie,

Never met Carl Palmer, but I met John Marshall when he was working with John Surman and they came down to the Parkstone Jazz Club way back in the mid-1870s. Difficult to remember his performance all those years ago because our guests were all good and if they brought their own backing groups, they were always good too. But Surman also guested on his own with our houseband and apart from being a damned good sax player, he was also a very nice and easy going guy. Great times.

Maurice

 

[Smudger]

Eddie,

Never met Carl Palmer, but I met John Marshall when he was working with John Surman and they came down to the Parkstone Jazz Club way back in the mid-1870s. Difficult to remember his performance all those years ago because our guests were all good and if they brought their own backing groups, they were always good too. But Surman also guested on his own with our houseband and apart from being a damned good sax player, he was also a very nice and easy going guy. Great times.

Maurice

sospiri,

I know Eddie is an old geezer but if you were about in the 1870`s enjoying life then please share with us your secret of eternal youth. PS, how much was a pint back then?

Smudger

 

[sospiri]

Ooops, Smudger - I'm an awful typist but do try to proofread what I submit. On this occasion I slipped up. However, I can jump back to 1839 in two generations, the year my paternal grandmother was born, simply because by father was 22 years older than my mother, my father was also the youngest of his family, his elder brother being 16 years older. I would, however, say that I only ever knew one of my grandparents (my maternal grandmother) who lived to be 92. Also, like Eddie, I don't dispute that I am an old geezer! I rest my case.

Maurice

 

[norfolk brummie]

Nice reminders of superb drummers, Eddie. Looking back and enjoying your previous posts - I remember the Drum City showroom on Shaftesbury Avenue; didn't Bob Henrit have a shop round the corner in the Charing Cross Road? Those Hayman drums with distinctive circular lugs - does anyone still play them professionally?

On the Ludwig and Premier debate: I owned a black Ludwig kit bought from Andy Ward of Camel, and one of my drumming heroes, Richard Coughlan of Caravan, played Premier throughout his career.

Bob Henrits drum store, in Wardour Street, was Argent Music, which Bob ran with Rod Argent. I am still in touch with Bob, and he recently paid me a visit.

I have no idea who plays Hayman these days, but they were very popular in the late 60's, early 70's.

Eddie.

 

[norfolk brummie]

Viewfinder: One of the set of photographs that was taken for the Hayman Drum Catalogue, when I was a Hayman drum endorser. Eddie

 

[Viewfinder]

Great photo, Eddie. I never played Hayman drums; what were they like? I always thought they looked smart; strange that you still see old Ludwig and Gretsch kits around, but not Hayman. Or Slingerland, for that matter...

 

[norfolk brummie]

A little surprised to note that no-one has mentioned the "Sons of Pitches", the Birmingham group that, last night, won the TV national competition for a cappella singing. They were rather good, and did well against some great singing from the other finalists.

Congratulations to them.

Eddie.

 

[norfolk brummie]

In his later years, the 1960's, I was most fortunate to get to know, quite well, the great American drummer, Gene Krupa. Having read a great deal about his past life, we found each other easy to chat to. Gene told me some hilarious stories, and the following are just a couple.

A lot of Gene's early playing career was around the south side of Chicago, and in those days Al Capone, and the world of gangsters was rife. Gene said that this story was about a fellow drummer, not himself.

The band had been hired to play at some large house, owned by gangsters. The band arrived, and played, and the evening went fine. However, when they were packing up all their instruments, ready to leave, the drummer was told, not asked, to leave his bass drum, which would be returned to him, the following day. Sure enough, he got his bass drum back the next day.

Later he discovered it had been used to remove a 'disposed' gang member, discreetly, to some unknown destination!

Gene also related one of his early recording sessions, in that period. He arrived at the recording session, and started to set up his drums. "What are you going to do with those?", asked the engineer. "Play them" said Krupa. "You can't do that, you will ruin our equipment" said the engineer "All that we have ever used on our recordings are snare drum and cymbals, the bass drum & tom toms will knock the needle off our wax disc". In the end the studio agreed to try recording with the full drum kit, and everything turned out fine.

In many ways, it must have been great fun in those early days of getting the world to accept jazz music.

Eddie

 

[sospiri]

Eddie,

That's a lovely story about an alternate use for a bass drum. Given the number of murders going on today, especially those where the body is hacked to pieces, it would certainly make an easy way of removing the remains from the premises without arousing undue suspicion.

As for causing damage during recording, I would have thought that a loud bass player would have been more likely to cause overload. Many a time when we recorded our group we just put a couple of cushions in front of the bass drum and that has done the trick.

Maurice

 

[norfolk brummie]

Sorting a few things out in the loft. Came across these two jazz concert programmes, 1957/58, when JAZZ WAS KING!

The Gerry Mulligan Quartet were appearing at Dudley Hippodrome. April 28th 1957. The Quartet featured Gerry Mulligan, Bob Brookmeyer, Dave 'Specs' Bailey & Joe Benjamin. The supporting band was a wonderful British 10 piece band, led by pianist Ken Moule.

The other programme is from the first JAZZ AT THE PHIL UK tour, and what a line up!

Odeon, Birmingham Friday May 16th 1958.

Ella Fitzgerald, Oscar Peterson, Dizzy Gillespie, Roy Eldridge, Stan Getz, Coleman Hawkins, Sonny Stitt, Lou Levy, Herb Ellis, Gus Johnson and Max Bennett.

The support was the U.K's own Dill Jones Trio

Some of the worlds greatest jazz musicians. No longer with us, but what wonderful times, and wonderful music.

Eddie

 

[sospiri]

Yes, indeed, Eddie, and to think both those shows were well over 50 years ago. Just doing a quick look up as I write:-

Dave "Specs" Bailey
US jazz drummer, b. Feb 22, 1926 in Portsmouth, VA. Studied drumming in New York upon completing his military service as a pilot in World War II. A solid swing and bop player, he's not commonly credited for his role in helping popularize the bossa nova in the '60s, but Bailey learned the rhythm while touring South America in 1959 and helped many American drummers master the sound.

That would make him 90 years old next year - I can't find a record of his death. Mulligan, Brookmeyer & Benjamin are all playing at that great concert in the sky!

Only Max Bennett survives out of the JATP line-up at the ripe old age of 87.

Ill health caused Ken Moule to move to the warmer climate of Spain. He died in Marbella in 1986, aged 60. In the 1950s he was running the Ken Moule Seven and presumably this was augmented for the Gerry Mulligan Tour, but I can't find the complete line-up.

But great to see those old programmes again, Eddie. Nothing so exciting here as I'm making one of the props (a cheese seller's cart) for our local pantomime on December 5th - lots of cardboard, glue and paint and am mostly hanging around waiting for glue to dry!

Maurice

 

[norfolk brummie]

Thanks for all that information Maurice. Just checked. The Ken Moule 'Ten' was, for the JATP tour, was:


Ken (piano); Allan Ganley (drums); Arthur Watts (bass); Ken Sykora (guitar); Bert Courtley (trumpet); Eddie Harvey (trombone); Dave Shepherd (clarinet); Don Rendell (tenor); Jimmy Skidmore (tenor); Jimmy Walker (alto/soprano);


Incidentally, Dave Shepherd also worked with the Dill Jones Trio, on the Mulligan tour.

The last time I met, and spoke to Ken Moule, was in 1962 when he did a summer season in Great Yarmouth, backing Des O'Conner, Mikki & Griff, and Jackie Trent, with the Lonnie Donegan Band topping the bill. My wife and I spent a week mixing with the whole crew, and it was hilarious. Pete Appleby was on drums with Lonnie, and 'Buzz' Green was on drums with Ken.

I was also fortunate, as was yourself, to work with some of the other musicians mentioned.

Hope your December pantomime goes well, and watching glue dry, is slightly more exciting than watching paint dry!

 

[norfolk brummie]

Not drums this time, but for all of you guitarists, and would be guitarists, the man that changed the history of the guitar.........Mr Leo Fender.

I had the wonderful privilege of meeting Leo Fender at a USA music convention.