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Lowe Arthur Seal Stone Engraver

G

Genmac1

master brummie
I am looking forward to researching the 1921 Census in January for members of our families especially in the Birmingham area.

I am hoping to find out whether my wife's grandfather Arthur Lowe returned to his elite skilled craft as a 'Seal Stone Engraver' in the Jewellery Quarter in 1919, after serving with the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry in WW1. Especially to at last find out the 'name of this employer in Hockley in 1921'. Recently we found Arthur Lowe aged 58 on the 1939 Register listed as a 'Seal Stone Engraver' as his occupation, so this evidence is encouraging for the 1921 Census record
 
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1921 Census Entry

Just excited and pleased to find out that my wife's grandfather Arthur Lowe, who was injured at Ypres on 4th October 1917, returned to his highly skilled trade as a Seal Stone Engraver after WW1 in the Birmingham Jewellery Quarter at the age of 40 until he retired much later.

Census Entry - June 1921

Occupation - 'Seal Stone Engraver'
Employer - 'OWN ACCOUNT ?'
Address - '100 VYSE STREET ? '

This is complete surprise that he was working on his 'Own Account' at '100 Vyse Street '. We were hoping that we might find a 'name' and 'address' of one of the companies in the Jewellery Quarter in 1921. We are pleased that we now have an address to work with.

Does anybody know answers to following question:-

- what does it mean that he is working on his 'Own Account' as a Seal Stone Engraver in Hockley?
- does anybody know information on which employers worked out of 100 Vyse Street in June 1921?

Thank you
 
Genmac1 said:
1921 Census Entry

Just excited and pleased to find out that my wife's grandfather Arthur Lowe, who was injured at Ypres on 4th October 1917, returned to his highly skilled trade as a Seal Stone Engraver after WW1 in the Birmingham Jewellery Quarter at the age of 40 until he retired much later.

Census Entry - June 1921

Occupation - 'Seal Stone Engraver'
Employer - 'OWN ACCOUNT ?'
Address - '100 VYSE STREET ? '

This is complete surprise that he was working on his 'Own Account' at '100 Vyse Street '. We were hoping that we might find a 'name' and 'address' of one of the companies in the Jewellery Quarter in 1921. We are pleased that we now have an address to work with.

Does anybody know answers to following question:-

- what does it mean that he is working on his 'Own Account' as a Seal Stone Engraver in Hockley?
- does anybody know information on which employers worked out of 100 Vyse Street in June 1921?

Thank you
Click to expand...
Own account means self employed I think
 
A lot of people working in the Jewellery Quarter were self employed.
So a customer went to someone and ordered a seal - one man made the gold mount he asked another who might engrave the gold , then it went to another to have the seal engraved and then to the original person for the seal to be put together and sold to the customer. Then each person was paid for their work. Each man had a different skill.
It is why there are/were so many small workrooms. Some worked from a workshop at home.
Guns were made in a similar way in the Gun Quarter - each part by a different skilled worker with one person fitting it all together.
 
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The 1921 Kellys (which possibly refers to 1920) lists 100 Vyse St as the following;
Frederick Britton electrogilder
William Haywood, manufacturing jeweller
Ernest Lewis, engraver
 
Below is a photo I took c1970, before they demolished the buildings to replace them with the concrete monstrosity . No 100 is the centre h.ouse. It still has the Britton name over the door

36A___99_-_101_Vyse_st.jpg
 
Thank you Mikejee for your photograph of No 100 Vyse Street you took in 1970. We were sad to learn that it was demolished shortly afterwards. Yes interesting that the name of Frederick Britton Gold Chain Maker is still over the front door who I found on the 1901 Census with his family of 4 daughters and one son who was a electro plate finisher. By the 1911 Census the family had moved out 1 Crescent Avenue Handsworth.

As yet I not found out who occupied 100 Vyse Street in 1911 ? Do you have access to any Kelly's Trade Directories for 100 Vyse Street between 1901- 1915 to find out if Arthur Lowe Seal Stone Engraver was at this address between these years before he was called up for WW1 in 1915?. He was living with his family at 144 Rookery Road Handsworth at the time?

Thank you for 'self employed /independent contractor' reference in 1921 Census
 
There is no Arthur Lowe mentioned at 100 Vyse st in Kellys for 1903, `1904, 1908, 1910, 1912 or 1913. However in 1908, 1910, 1912 1913 and 1915 there was a William Campbell. Seal engraver (for the last two years desc ribed as seal stone engraver)
 
mikejee said:
There is no Arthur Lowe mentioned at 100 Vyse st in Kellys for 1903, `1904, 1908, 1910, 1912 or 1913. However in 1908, 1910, 1912 1913 and 1915 there was a William Campbell. Seal engraver (for the last two years desc ribed as seal stone engraver)
Click to expand...

Once again many thanks Mikejee for very helpful information on Arthur Lowe Seal Stone Engraver on 1921 Census from the 1903 -1915 Kelly's Directories for 100 Vyse Street. We now know that Arthur Lowe did not appear in directories at this address between these years.

It is interesting to learn that William Campbell another Seal Stone Engraver was working at 100 Vyse Street in 1913 and 1915 just before Arthur Lowe was constricpted to serve in the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry in 1916 during rest of WW1 at age of 35. Also interesting to know that the sign above the door still says 'F.Britton Ltd' around 1960's - 1970's.
The son Frederic Britton might have taken over his father's business once the family moved to Handsworth as he was he and his brother were listed as electro gilders & electro plate finishers on 1901 Census trades mentioned on the sign above the door. ( Cant find William Campbell on 1921 Census)

What we would now like to know whether you might have answers to the following extra questions:-

- Does 'Arthur Lowe -Seal Stone Engraver' appear in any other subsequent Birmingham Kelly's Directories from 1921-1939 at 100 Vyse Street or elsewhere in Hockley as a 'self employed independent contractor'?

- Would he need to 'advertise' his Seal Stone Engraving business to obtain contracts? and where? after 1921

- Do you know whether he might have used 'factors' who then supplied shopkeepers on Saturdays? after 1921
 
I would have thought that "advertising" was by word of mouth. So one person used his work, found it high standard and recommended him elsewhere.
 
Pedrocut said:
Was not Frederick Britton, electro gldr at 100 from 1901-15 ?
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Yes Frederic Britton was Frederick Britton's son aged 40 listed as an 'Electro Gilder ' on the 1901 Census at 100 Vyse Street with the rest of the family including his brother Arthur Britton (Electro Plate Finisher) and his 4 sisters all living at No 100. By 1911 the family had moved to a new family home in Handsworth whilst keeping the business at No 100. I assume the 2 sons kept the business going at No 100 after their father had 'retired'. One sister Beatrice Britton in 1901 was a Electro Plate Warehousewoman
 
pjmburns said:
I would have thought that "advertising" was by word of mouth. So one person used his work, found it high standard and recommended him elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Thank you pjmburns for your help. Yes I am sure that the high standard quality of Arthur Lowe's highly skilled work as one of only a few remaining 'Seal Stone Engravers' left in Birmingham in 1921 after he had returned for WW1 would have certainly have been by 'word of mouth'.

In 1912 he was commissioned to produce the new Bishop's Ring of Isle of Man. At time he was Rev Thompson at St Martins in the Bull Ring before he became the new bishop on the island. Arthur Lowe's ring was exhibited in a shop window in New Street reported in the press?. Unfortunately we do not have an image of the ring as they are always destroyed after each bishop dies.

Also my wife still has her grandfather's seal apprentice pieces and some sample stones. On a visit to the Jewellery Quarter Museum we showed the apprentice samples who said were high quality skilled work.

Any thoughts will be appreciated thank you
 
Pedrocut said:
F. Britton was at 100 Vyse St in 1941 requiring a greasemopper.
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Thanks Pedrocut for information. Interesting that member of Britton family were still involved at 100 Vyse Street during WW2. Arthur Lowe would have been aged 60. Arthur appeared on the 1939 Register at his family home in Handsworth and is still listed as a 'Seal Stone Engraver' but we dont know if he was still at 100 Vyse Street by then.

( what is a greasemopper?)
 
Once again we are very grateful for all your help in tracking down who was occupying some of the workshops at 100 Vyse Street in 1920. Frederick Britton aged 60 in 1920 was probably the son of the original Gold Chain Maker aged 62 in 1901 Census.

We will try to find out more about William Haywood and especially Ernest Lewis who also was an 'engraver'. Arthur Lowe aged 40 was not demobbed with an Army Pension from the Reserves in 1919. We now from the 1921 Census he writes down 100 Vyse Street as his place of occupation still as a Seal Stone Engraver on 'Own Account'
 
Thank you for checking the 1921 Kelly's Directory for businesses at 100 Vyse Street in 1920, much appreciated.

Our Arthur Lowe (Sea Stone Engraver) on the 1921 Census put down his place of work as 100 Vyse Street. He was not demobbed from the Reserves after the end of WW1 until 1919, so he might not have started up on his 'Own Account' until later in 1921-1922.

- Can you please check any other Kelly's Directories from 1922 and a few years after for Arthur Lowe Seal Stone Engraver working at 100 Vyse Street?

- Did the use of Engraved Seals continue after 1921 or did there use decline after a certain date?
 
Genmac1 said:
Thank you for checking the 1921 Kelly's Directory for businesses at 100 Vyse Street in 1920, much appreciated.

Our Arthur Lowe (Sea Stone Engraver) on the 1921 Census put down his place of work as 100 Vyse Street. He was not demobbed from the Reserves after the end of WW1 until 1919, so he might not have started up on his 'Own Account' until later in 1921-1922.

- Can you please check any other Kelly's Directories from 1922 and a few years after for Arthur Lowe Seal Stone Engraver working at 100 Vyse Street?

- Did the use of Engraved Seals continue after 1921 or did there use decline after a certain date?
Click to expand...
 
In last few days you posted a copy of the 1909 Trade Directory for Vyse Street listed :-

- 100 Vyse Street , Campbell William - SEAL STONE ENGRAVER

This is the same address that we found on the recent 1921 UK Census for Birmingham where my wife's grandfather returned to after being demobbed in 1919 WW1 as a Seal Stone Engraver OF OWN ACCOUNT. Therefore we would be grateful to know if in 1909 Arthur Lowe (aged 20 ) was working for William Campbell AS AN APPRENTICE SEAL STONE ENGRAVER (7 Years Apprenticeship) at 100 Vyse Street in 1909 ?

WILLIAM CAMPBELL (Seal Stone Engraver) in 1909

We would now like to find out more of following information about William Campbell :-

- Age in 1909?
- Where was his home address? ( assume he did not live at 100 Vyse Street which was a workshop)
- Did he have any family around 1909? - especially any sons might have continued in his father's trade?
- Is he listed on the new 1921 UK Census ? ( he was not listed on 1921 Census at 100 Vyse Street)


- Is my wife's grandfather (Arthur Lowe) listed on any other Birmingham Trade Directories after 1921-1939 100 Vyse St?
 
There are a number of adverts for jobs applying to 100 Vyse St in the newspapers 1890s to 1910s. Various roles - electro plate, silver work - and the person to apply to is Britton, usually F Britton.

The Brittons are listed as 102 Vyse St in 1891, father is a gold chain maker but 2 sons are electro gilders, listed as employers.

Which I now see you already know.
 
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MWS said:
There are a number of adverts for jobs applying to 100 Vyse St in the newspapers 1890s to 1910s. Various roles - electro plate, silver work - and the person to apply to is Britton, usually F Britton.

The Brittons are listed as 102 Vyse St in 1891, father is a gold chain maker but 2 sons are electro gilders, listed as employers.

Which I now see you already know.
Click to expand...
Thank you MWS, yes we already knew that the F Britton' s ( Electrogilders) occupied the workshops at 100 Vyse Street . I did not know that in 1891 the father (gold chain maker ) was also working at 102 Vyse Street.

In amongst all the job adverts for 100 Vyse Street between 1890 to 1910 I dont suppose there was any job adverts for AN APPRENTICE SEAL STONE ENGRAVER to work with William Campbell? Also are there any more job adverts for SEAL STONE ENGRAVERS anywhere else in the Jewellery Quarter between 1895 to 1912?
 
Of all the William Campbells in Bham & West Brom on the 1911 census there is one born 1867 Perry Barr listed as a Jeweller Gold Mounter.
 
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MWS , once again many thanks for your helpful information. We are surprised that there are no job adverts for Seal Stone Engravers and their apprentices ( 7 years) in Birmingham between 1890 - 1910 for such a rare highly skilled job ( very few Seal Stone Engravers at the time)

Also thank you for the very useful census record for 1911 - seems a possibility for us to research further,thanks
 
The problem with adverts is - you have to be literate to read them.
Many people working in the Jewellery Quarter around that time probably couldn't read which is why a lot of things happened (as I said before) by "word of mouth".
 
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