Local Knowledge required - re a likely pub

[RhomaKay]

Greetings from Australia,

This year, through DNA testing, I have finally discovered who my paternal grandfather was. I'll try to cut short a very long story and put my question at the end, but basically my father Raymond George Kirkwood (born 6/4/1915) was illegitimate. He was raised by foster parents Frederick William and Annie Elizabeth Smith who lived at 87 Brooks Lane until he was aged 8 or 9 and then he was collected by his biological mother so he could work selling newspapers to supplement her family income. My father also had foster siblings Doris Gwendoline and Norman Smith.

It turns out that my paternal grandfather was William Lyon Scott a barman at their local pub and I believe that he paid the Smith's to care for my father because he was a married man with six children and he wouldn't have wanted his infidelity being common knowledge.

My question is: My father remembered waiting for his foster parents to leave a pub and it was within walking distance of their home in Brooks Lane. The time frame would be circa 1920. Does anyone have any idea which pub it is most likely to be?

Thanking you in advance
Rhoma

 

[Astoness]

hi rhoma...what area was brooks lane in

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

In 1920 Frederick and Annie lived at 4 Augusta Villas which became and still is 87 Brook Lane Billesley/ Kings Heath.
It is within walking distance of The Billesley Arms pub - also still there.
I will post links when I have my laptop on

 

[RhomaKay]

Hi Lyn,
Thank you for you help, the census only says Brooks Lane, Birmingham. It looks like I have my answer and that it would have been the Billesley Arms, Kings Heath.
You are all wonderful
thank you
Rhoma

 

[RhomaKay]

In 1920 Frederick and Annie lived at 4 Augusta Villas which became and still is 87 Brook Lane Billesley/ Kings Heath.
It is within walking distance of The Billesley Arms pub - also still there.
I will post links when I have my laptop on

Hi Janice,
thank you so much that is sensational. I am very excited by this information, as I try to find more links to my father's past.
thanks again and I look forward to anything that you can send me
Rhoma

 

[Astoness]

i have this photo of the billesley arms but ive also read that it did not open for trading until 1927 so maybe this was not the pub...maybe someone could check when it opened..

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

Listed in 1915 directory but may be a different building.
A pub is marked there on 1903 map so perhaps the present building is a newer pub

 

[Astoness]

Listed in 1915 directory but may be a different building.

thanks jan i was wondering if it was a rebuild of an original billesley arms pub

lyn

 

[Vivienne14]

The Billesley Arms in the 1920s. This building was still there in 1925. It was rebuilt in 1926.

And here's a link to another thread about the pub

W

Thread 'The Billesley Arms'

Jul 14, 2007

This is a post card of The Billesley Arms issued by Birmingham Library.

• Wendy
• Replies: 37
• Forum: Pubs and Hotels

 

[Astoness]

thanks viv..so given the time frame that rhoma gives us the original billesley arms pub would most likely her dad remembered...great to have a photo of it

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

1920 eroll under heading Brook Lane

 

[pjmburns]

By 1925 it was 87 Brook Lane

 

[pjmburns]

The house today - with wjite door. Above the doors is a plaque which says Augusta Villas

 

[Astoness]

87 brook lane still there...white door and only about a 5 min walk from the pub..click on link below for todays street view

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[pjmburns]

1913 map. As far as I can tell Augusta Villas were the block marked in yellow.

 

[pjmburns]

1953 map

 

[RhomaKay]

WOW!!! WOW!! and more WOW!!! Thank you all so much. This is wonderful and so much for me to digest. I did find out this afternoon that the Billesley Arms was rebuilt in 1924 but it is lovely to have the pictures and maps. Also the photos of Augusta Villas lets me imagine my Dad walking through that doorway and his biological mother collecting him at the front gate.

thanks again to you all
Rhoma

 

[NoddKD]

Hi Rhoma,
I am always impressed with the time,effort and knowledge of the members of this site.
WOW,WOW and more WOW is truly deserved.

NoddKD.

 

[Pedrocut]

There is a mention of the Billesley Arms, Billesley Common from at least 1865. so perhaps the building has had many alterations.

In December 1929 referred to as the new Billesley Arms. Holt’s Brewery.

 

[Astoness]

There is a mention of the Billesley Arms, Billesley Common from at least 1865. so perhaps the building has had many alterations.

thanks pedro there was a complete re build...we have posted photos of the original one and the one that is there now

lyn

 

[Astoness]

WOW!!! WOW!! and more WOW!!! Thank you all so much. This is wonderful and so much for me to digest. I did find out this afternoon that the Billesley Arms was rebuilt in 1924 but it is lovely to have the pictures and maps. Also the photos of Augusta Villas lets me imagine my Dad walking through that doorway and his biological mother collecting him at the front gate.

thanks again to you all
Rhoma

if you go back to post 14 and click on the street view i posted you will be able to do the walk your dad did to get to the pub...just imagine you are standing on the door step and do a right turn and keep moving up the lane...the pub is on the same side as the house...

lyn

 

[RhomaKay]

Thanks Lyn, I've just done that walk twice now soaking up the scenery as I go. I hope to get there in person one day! I'll have a drink for my dad!
cheers
Rhoma

 

[Astoness]

yes you do that rhoma that would be great....i take it you have got the 1921 census for william lyon scott ?

lyn

 

[RhomaKay]

yes you do that rhoma that would be great....i take it you have got the 1921 census for william lyon scott ?

lyn

Yes I do thank you Lyn. It shows him living at the back of 23 Chesterton Road with his wife and six children by then he was an out of work general labourer for the Birmingham Small Arms factory. He joined the army in August 1915. I'm assuming to get away from the mess he created by having a wife with six kids and my grandmother having just given birth to his child. He never saw active service due to colitis issues!!! Which somehow I inherited. It is amazing what you can discover from the past.
I love family history!!
cheers and thanks again
Rhoma

 

[pjmburns]

The house in Brook Lane no longer has any houses/cottages opposite. The hedge facing the house is part of the hedge surrounding Moseley Golf Club. Hence the slightly countrified look.

 

[Astoness]

Yes I do thank you Lyn. It shows him living at the back of 23 Chesterton Road with his wife and six children by then he was an out of work general labourer for the Birmingham Small Arms factory. He joined the army in August 1915. I'm assuming to get away from the mess he created by having a wife with six kids and my grandmother having just given birth to his child. He never saw active service due to colitis issues!!! Which somehow I inherited. It is amazing what you can discover from the past.
I love family history!!
cheers and thanks again
Rhoma

hi rhoma i guessed you had got it as i remembered you saying william had 6 children which i can see are all on the 21 census...glad we were able to help you a bit...not sure if you need anymore help but if you do just let us know..oh yes do you have williams death ?

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

I see on the 1911 census he is down as a barman.

 

[Astoness]

I see on the 1911 census he is down as a barman.

yes i saw that jan

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

yes i saw that jan

lyn

Pity it doesn't say where.

 

[Astoness]

Pity it doesn't say where.

i agree jan would have been loads of pubs around there at that time

lyn