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Lane Family

One interesting/frustrating thing was that on William Lane's marriage to Martha Dugard (Florence's parent) his father is listed as Charles Jarvis and hers as Josiah Wilden.

After some digging I'm fairly certain that Martha was the daughter of Josiah Wilden and Sarah Dugard. They don't seem to have married. Before Martha's birth Sarah had married a James Tooth and had 2 children. She appears as a boarder with William and Martha in 1881.

Josiah and Sarah appear to have had a number of children as well as Martha (most unfortunately died young) before it appears Josiah married another woman in 1871!

The variations in the spelling Wilden made that frustrating.

About William Lane I'm not sure, it is possible that he was the illegitimate daughter of one of two sisters, Hannah or Diana Lane.
 
MWS said:
It can be difficult to trace beyond the early 18th century with a fairly common name, especially in a large town/city. Wouldn't even like to hazard a guess where the John Butler that married Ann Rider was born. It's easy to assume that because he married in Bham he was born there but there 's nothing to prove that.

If he enlisted before he married (31 Jan 1854), the record may list his occupation as a soldier and possibly his regiment. If he enlisted afterwards it may appear on the baptism/birth or marriage records of his children. Best bet John Henry who was registered 1860 in Greenwich.

Not certain when or where he died but Ann re-married in 1867.
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Have you found them on the 1861 census?
 
No, I assumed they were in Gibraltar by then.

I saw Thomas on Smith St but didn't know which pub. I think his parents owned some property, his mother is listed as a proprietor of houses in 1861.

Can't quite make out John's father's occupation - something band master ?
 
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MWS said:
No, I assumed they were in Gibraltar by then.

I saw Thomas on Smith St but didn't know which pub. I think his parents owned some property, his mother is listed as a proprietor of houses in 1861.

Can't quite make out John's father's occupation - something band master ?
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Looks like Brass Band Maker to me
 
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If he was in the army then I thought he would be on a census. I have a relative in 1911 based in India in the army but he is on the English census.
 
pjmburns said:
If he was in the army then I thought he would be on a census. I have a relative in 1911 based in India in the army but he is on the English census.
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Not sure, possibly later censuses. Couldn't find them.

However, while trying I just came across a Joseph Butler listed as born 1819 Gibraltar living in Aston 1861. I wonder if there's a connection.
 
pjmburns said:
Thomas Rider (Ann's Father) is down as a publican and on the 1861 census is listed at the Malt shovel 103 Smith Street.
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pretty sure i have a rare photo of the malt shovel.... from memory its not a very good one but better than nothing...smith st is a very old street

lyn
 
Astoness said:
pretty sure i have a rare photo of the malt shovel.... from memory its not a very good one but better than nothing...smith st is a very old street

lyn
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Is that the malt shovel there ?? & thankyou for the research it’s really interesting could you elaborate please on when they went to Gibraltar and how and why please does it stay what part of Gibraltar they lived or anything like that please
 

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no that is not the malt shovel i believe thats the queens head...here is the malt shovel taken in 1958 long gone now though it the building to the right of where the bike issmith st malt shovel 1958 no 103.jpg
 
I think this is the picture you are referring to Lyn. I have sharpened it a little

malt shovel smith stA.jpg
 
If Joseph Butler was in the gun trade then I found a candidate for both Joseph and John.

On the 1841 census there is a Joseph Butler b1788ish living in Adam St with wife (Elizabeth) and children. He is listed as a barrel filer.

One of his children is a John Butler b1832. John and some of the children appear to have been born in Weedon Bec, Northants.

On the 1851 Joseph, Elizabeth and a daughter (Ellen) are in Bham. Joseph is a gun barrel filer.

John Butler is in Hougham, Kent and listed as gunners & drivers Royal Artillery. Though that doesn't seem to tie in with his occupation on his marriage.
 
The other Joseph Butler b1819ish Gibraltar could be John's elder brother (his father is also listed as Joseph on his marriage) which would imply that their father was also in the army.

On the baptisms of the elder Joseph's children in Weedon Bec, he is listed as either a private or a gunner in the Royal Artillery.
 
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Looking at Joseph Butler b1788ish illustrates the difficulty of tracing pre-1841. There are 3 baptisms at St Phillips for a Joseph Butler in 1784, 1789 & 1794. It's likely that it is the one in 1789 but you are reliant upon the baptisms occurring close to birth (which is usual) and the correct recording of his age in 1841 & 1851 (which is not always accurate).

Whichever one it is I think he married an Elizabeth Littlehales in 1809 and even she could be one of 2.

Joseph and Elizabeth appear to have had at least 5 sons and 3 daughters - sons (2 Bham, 1 Gibraltar, 1 Kent & 1 Northants), daughters all Northants. Weedon Bec in Northants had a large ordnance depot.

Of the sons at least 2 others, as well as John, appear to have been in the Royal Artillery - Henry & James.
 
MWS said:
The other Joseph Butler b1819ish Gibraltar could be John's elder brother (his father is also listed as Joseph on his marriage) which would imply that their father was also in the army.

On the baptisms of the elder Joseph's children in Weedon Bec, he is listed as either a private or a gunner in the Royal Artillery
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Arrr brilliant to
Hear and the different birthplaces for all the children sort of confirms what I have been told to
Look for aswell on a different page and I’ve found lots of names and photos in a book in my nanas loft that co ,I have some photos to upload to
Show you guys of people I’ve never heard of maybe you have seen there names when you have been researching and I also have photos of family’s members I do recognise thanks for your time on this I appreciate it so much
 
MWS said:
Looking at Joseph Butler b1788ish illustrates the difficulty of tracing pre-1841. There are 3 baptisms at St Phillips for a Joseph Butler in 1784, 1789 & 1794. It's likely that it is the one in 1789 but you are reliant upon the baptisms occurring close to birth (which is usual) and the correct recording of his age in 1841 & 1851 (which is not always accurate).

Whichever one it is I think he married an Elizabeth Littlehales in 1809 and even she could be one of 2.

Joseph and Elizabeth appear to have had at least 5 sons and 3 daughters - sons (2 Bham, 1 Gibraltar, 1 Kent & 1 Northants), daughters all Northants. Weedon Bec in Northants had a large ordnance depot.

Of the sons at least 2 others, as well as John, appear to have been in the Royal Artillery - Henry & James.
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Lovely photos! I have one of my gran and grandad in 1909 which is a similar pose to the the middle one top row, and another in 1913 which is similar to 1st one second row if that helps with dates.
When I saw yours I thought for a moment they were the ones!!
rosie.
 
rosie said:
Lovely photos! I have one of my gran and grandad in 1909 which is a similar pose to the the middle one top row, and another in 1913 which is similar to 1st one second row if that helps with dates.
When I saw yours I thought for a moment they were the ones!!
rosie.
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Thankyou that does really help & I’m glad you all like the photos ,thankyou all so much for your research and hard work ,I’ve been able to put information to photos and it’s helped me bring back long lost memories ,my nana Alice died a year and half ago and my maa has dementia so I thought so much of information you have disclosed to me was lost it’s amazing , it’s been wonderful today like I was reading the research you all did to her and her face was just lighting up when I said something she had heard before ,worth its weight in gold ,god bless you all and thanks again
 
7backof7portlandstreet said:
Thankyou that does really help & I’m glad you all like the photos ,thankyou all so much for your research and hard work ,I’ve been able to put information to photos and it’s helped me bring back long lost memories ,my nana Alice died a year and half ago and my maa has dementia so I thought so much of information you have disclosed to me was lost it’s amazing , it’s been wonderful today like I was reading the research you all did to her and her face was just lighting up when I said something she had heard before ,worth its weight in gold ,god bless you all and thanks again
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Ah how lovely that you have been able to talk to your mom about her memories, heartwarming. I have been following this post because my nan’s maiden name was Lane and there were a good many of them late 19th early 20th century, they lived in Bordesley Green. As you say fantastic research from everybody involved in this post, think your mom is going to enjoy a few more memories. Jen
 
Arr that’s great I have family who lived in bordsley/hay mills on my dads side , it’s a great website I can’t believe I haven’t done this sooner to be honest I’ve done nothing but scroll through posts for 3 days so many good people on here it’s great there keeping the history going and thanks ,I hope that she does, it’s making us all so happy finding this stuff out
 
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Astoness said:
do you have a date for the farm st school photo...i attended this school

lyn
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I don’t know sorry but I can work it out for you when I write everything down for my son ,I’ll find out her birthday it’s says class 3 so should be able to work it out what year it would of been at the time ,I have some more photos of a few things that I have that belonged to my aunty Louise called the pedlars loan it’s really fragile litterley the pages are crumbling it’s so sad but if anyone has every seen this before or has any history would be nice and I also have postcards from ww1 that my uncle lane Arthur sent to my nana Florences mother ,I believe he died shortly after sending them, I can’t work out what they say but if anyone wants to read them and have a go please go ahead
 
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