Johnson

[MWS]

Thomas (father) appears to have also been born in Leicestershire (Woodhouse Eaves) and was a joiner. Mother possible Mary Ann Hinman or Inman born in the same place. Married 17 Sep 1830.

Probably needs a little more looking at to confirm.

 

[MWS]

It is also possible that Thomas may have been married before. I can't see the marriage scan to Matilda to see what he was listed as.

 

[pjmburns]

Thanks Pam, sorry to be a pain.

Glad to help

 

[mrbluesky1957]

The marriage is on Ancestry. Matilda's father is Edward, Thomas' father was Thomas.

Thanks Mark

 

[mrbluesky1957]

Hi Mark, think this is proof? Both Thomas and his father thomas Joseph were born in Leicestershire? Sorry i carnt find marriage on ancestry. Thank you, Keith

 

[pjmburns]

The marriage of Matilda and Thomas is there. I can't post at the moment as not on my laptop.
Thomas is a bachelor
Will post cert tomorrow

 

[Astoness]

here is the cert for matilda and thomas

lyn

 

[mrbluesky1957]

Thomas (father) appears to have also been born in Leicestershire (Woodhouse Eaves) and was a joiner. Mother possible Mary Ann Hinman or Inman born in the same place. Married 17 Sep 1830.

Probably needs a little more looking at to confirm.

Thanks Mark, thats what manage to find but wasn't certain. Yes father and son both carpenter. Proven, thank you, Keith.

 

[mrbluesky1957]

here is the cert for matilda and thomas

lyn

View attachment 214717

Thank you so much Lyn. I couldnt find it. Just doing a bit at a time. Much appreciated, Keith.

 

[pjmburns]

Thomas (father) appears to have also been born in Leicestershire (Woodhouse Eaves) and was a joiner. Mother possible Mary Ann Hinman or Inman born in the same place. Married 17 Sep 1830.

Probably needs a little more looking at to confirm.

I think this is the marriage

She seems to sometimes be listed as Ann not Mary and Inman not Hinman (down to pronunciation and how the recorder thought it was spelt).
Fits with Thomas (jnr) birth reg

 

[mrbluesky1957]

Amazing Pam, thank you very much. I finally had Thomas Joseph. Just threw me off being born in Leicestershire. Then his son being in Aston.
You saved alot of research with Frederick being the son of. What I know now with m/c Frederick R. Never would have got back so far on both sides. Thanks to yourself, Lyn and Mark.Plus You've even given me the gro ref for T J Johnson.. Thanks

 

[pjmburns]

The whole family (Thomas snr) seem to have moved to Birmingham.

 

[mrbluesky1957]

Yes Pam, that's what threw me. Then I looked at censuses. Plus ancestry, So now got 3 proofs of marriage. If I'm brave, Irish ancestry.. Thank you, and it's warmer today.

 

[mrbluesky1957]

I think this is the marriage
View attachment 214725
She seems to sometimes be listed as Ann not Mary and Inman not Hinman (down to pronunciation and how the recorder thought it was spelt).
Fits with Thomas (jnr) birth reg
View attachment 214727

Hi Pam, just looked again. States Mary Ann Hinmam. Marriage 27th September 1830.
On the gro ref says 1840?. I know Thomas Joseph Johnson is Thomas's father. Only just read it again? Thank you, Keith.

 

[mrbluesky1957]

Sorry Pam, read it again. Your right Thomas Joseph Johnson s birth fits in with 1840. Found gro, apologies your right. Keith.
His father Thomas married 1830. My brains working again.

 

[mrbluesky1957]

Hi Pam, thanks for your help. Would I get anymore information i.e. Banns giving name of parents? Thank you, Keitj.

 

[pjmburns]

I'm not sure - back in 1830 they seem to have recorded very little. Also depends what else is online for that area.
I will have a look.

 

[MWS]

Marriages or Banns prior to 1837 didn't require a father's name and they've never required the mother's. Sometimes non-conformist marriages (ie non C of E) give father/parents but the above marriage was C of E.

 

[pjmburns]

Marriages or Banns prior to 1837 didn't require a father's name and they've never required the mother's. Sometimes non-conformist marriages (ie non C of E) give father/parents but the above marriage was C of E.

That's what I thought. Thanks.

 

[mrbluesky1957]

Thanks To both of you. More knowledge. Thanks again for your advice.Keith

 

[MWS]

With a common name like Johnson you are probably going to to hit a brick wall earlier unfortunately. Even if you trace the name back to a small village there's always quite a lot of doubt if you find older matches.

For the generation before someone like Thomas you are hoping that a cousin, niece, nephew etc turns up on a census with someone you're sure about or alternately that they turn up in the household of cousin, uncle, aunt etc.

 

[MWS]

And as an example of how easy it is to go down the wrong path.

Searching the 1851 census for people name Johnson born Woodhouse (same as Thomas) resulted in an Edward. And looking at the 1851 census he turned out to also be a Joiner. A baptism gives his parents as Edward & Martha and on the 1841 census Thomas' eldest son is Edward.

All circumstantial but promising. However, looking again at the 1851 census shows another Edward Johnson b1800 birthplace also Woodhouse and is also listed as a Joiner (and farmer) which almost immediately puts huge doubt on any relationship. I wouldn't be surprised if they were all related but proving it is the problem.

 

[mrbluesky1957]

Yes I have father and son as carpenter and joiner Mark.

 

[mrbluesky1957]

I still think you were correct. William Johnson was a joiner. Censuses after 1851 Thomas Joseph and Thomas were both carpenters. I still get mixed up with Thomas Joseph and Thomas. 1851 has Thomas, Woodhouse, Mary aged 42 ABT born 1809 ish Woodhouse.

 

[pjmburns]

That bit is correct.
All MWS is saying is be careful if you try to go further back. Johnson with occupation joiner and born Woodhouse is quite common (as is the name Thomas) and it can be easy to pick the wrong person and head down the wrong route.