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john joseph hill glenavon road 1948/9 born 1891 aston
- Thread starter Gerry Cannell
- Start date
Gerry Cannell
master brummie
Interesting fact. Grandad died in I think 1988. in Tamworth, Irwell close? His full name was John Joseph Hill. His father was JJ Hill a Tamer of Beasts, also with Pat Collins Fairs & Menagerie. Grandad was well known round the rag market and sharpened scissors and blades on a converted bike. His sister was Lucy was a real Romany, and lived somewhere in Balsall Heath or that area, her name was Lucy HINTON ( nee Hill), Thanks, G.
hi gerry here is the 1901 census for your grandad john joseph hill as you see he is 9 years old living with his parents and siblings also note they have missed out his middle name of joseph which often happened...the occupation of his grandad also john at that time is blacksmith..also below is the birth record for your grandad john joseph hill born sept quarter 1891 in aston...as you will see on the 1901 census they are living in heysham lancashire. also note his sister bertha is married and is now bertha thorne and has a 1 month old daughter lily.if you want to find out for certain where your grandad was born ie the black patch you can order his birth cert online..here are the details you will need..if there is anything you dont understand just say...in 1881 john hill (your gt grandad married sarah ann harbone in aston birmingham
this is a joint effort between myself and janice
lyn
Name John Joseph Hill
Registration Date 1891
[1891]
Quarter of the Year Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Place Aston, Warwickshire, England
Volume 6d
Page 416
this is a joint effort between myself and janice
lyn
Name John Joseph Hill
Registration Date 1891
[1891]
Quarter of the Year Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Place Aston, Warwickshire, England
Volume 6d
Page 416
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Gerry Cannell
master brummie
You ladies are Marvelous, I wouldn't have known where to start...I shall certainly look further into this. Bless you guys. Gerry
always happy to help gerry.and it keeps us out of trouble..so to re cap in case you want to write it down..with luck we may find who your gt gt grandad was...
your grandad is john joseph hill born 1891 aston birmingham
he married kate elizabeth smith...no date as yet
your gt grandad is john hill born 1861 birmingham
he married sarah ann harbone 1881 birmingham
lyn
your grandad is john joseph hill born 1891 aston birmingham
he married kate elizabeth smith...no date as yet
your gt grandad is john hill born 1861 birmingham
he married sarah ann harbone 1881 birmingham
lyn
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Gerry Cannell
master brummie
Fantastic; I don't think you realize how helpful this is to me at my age, I am so grateful to you both. This information may well prove invaluable to my own children. This is like "Who do you think you are" on TV Now, it did make me wonder ladies.....Simple Minded? ..... a tick next almost all except those from Lancashire... ? Or are my ancestors all....err.....lunatics and or imbeciles....deaf or blind......I'm happy is doesn't say. Also I notice his sister Lucy there aged 8. They fought like cat & dog. Lucy lived in an old slum house, without any facilities, and I remember Grandad with his knife grinder bike in Aunties Lucy's outhouse. Lucy had always got a bottle of stout in her hand; always had flowered pinny on Ah...my lovely family Bless 'em. Have I read it correctly ladies? Gerry
Gerry Cannell
master brummie
Wow! You are putting my family tree research to shame Ha,ha. Yes, Lucy had: in age order; John,Hilda,Violet,Ronnie, Billy and Irene. I know that Violet ( known as CHICK) married my Dads brother John Taylor, and she lived with us, while John Taylor was away at war with my Dad, Charles Harry Taylor. Hilda, married John Sugden. Ronnie was a wild boy, always in trouble, but dear Billy, who used to play with me, was wonderful, he lived on Ickniel Port Road the last I heard, he died sadly of cancer. Irene, married John O'Brian, and the ran The Norbreck Castle Hotel in Blackpool. What a family eh? Thanks. Gerry
gerry ignore that marriage date for john joseph i think i made a mistake but will double check tomorrow
lyn
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Gerry Cannell
master brummie
Another Wow!. I will talk to you tomorrow, you guys are The Tops! G x
Gerry Cannell
master brummie
Again...Thank you ladies. Are you sure I haven't become a nuisance for you? I seem to have taken so much of your time with my family. I am so grateful ladies. I am learning every bloomin day Thanks to you. x
no trouble at all gerry but we thought it maybe nice for you to have a bit of background info on other members of your family...things you most likely did not know and bertha is quite interesting...i just have to pop next door for an hour to baby sit 2 grandchildren then the day is mine...be back later
lyn
lyn
Gerry Cannell
master brummie
Trivia: Lilly ( maybe one "L") was my mother IVY's auntie, ie Jacks sister, and she was the one that looked after my Mom when she was young. Mom always looked up to Aunt Lil, because she loved theatre, and used to take young Ivy to the Hippodrome or the Alex, and the Aston Hipp, when she was a child. Maybe that is where I get my love of theatre from.....The name Leah doesn't ring any bells, maybe she was in the family, but passed away at a young age? Thanks ladies. G x
as promised gerry a bit of info about your grandads sister bertha ...
bertha hill born dec 1885 aston birmingham birth registered jan 1886
on the 1891 she is down as aged 5 which is correct living at court 1 house 13 wainwright st aston
on the 1901 she is down as aged 17 marr to stephen samuel thorne and has a 1 month old daughter lily..so she lied about her age (quite common in those days )..address is 17 darwin city heysham lancs.
bertha married stephen thorne in dec 1900 in heysham lancs...on her marr cert she puts her age down as 20 so another white lie as she was only 15 and gave birth to lily when she was 15/16
on the 1939 eve of war register bertha is with hubby and others living there she gives here year of birth as 1883 which again is wrong...address is moorside road urmston lancs...nice to know that even though bertha and stephen met and married so young they stayed together ..just a note...on the 39 register if you look in the column thats gives years of birth it just give the last 2 digits ie in berthas case it say 83 which means born 1883..there is also a frank born 1922..william born 1924..bertha robinson born 1919 and a harry born 1939..reason i am telling you this is very often some people think that column denotes their ages ..
later on or tomorrow i will post you a few census years and marriage cert for bertha but i will let you digest all the info above first...any questions just ask us
lyn
bertha hill born dec 1885 aston birmingham birth registered jan 1886
on the 1891 she is down as aged 5 which is correct living at court 1 house 13 wainwright st aston
on the 1901 she is down as aged 17 marr to stephen samuel thorne and has a 1 month old daughter lily..so she lied about her age (quite common in those days )..address is 17 darwin city heysham lancs.
bertha married stephen thorne in dec 1900 in heysham lancs...on her marr cert she puts her age down as 20 so another white lie as she was only 15 and gave birth to lily when she was 15/16
on the 1939 eve of war register bertha is with hubby and others living there she gives here year of birth as 1883 which again is wrong...address is moorside road urmston lancs...nice to know that even though bertha and stephen met and married so young they stayed together ..just a note...on the 39 register if you look in the column thats gives years of birth it just give the last 2 digits ie in berthas case it say 83 which means born 1883..there is also a frank born 1922..william born 1924..bertha robinson born 1919 and a harry born 1939..reason i am telling you this is very often some people think that column denotes their ages ..
later on or tomorrow i will post you a few census years and marriage cert for bertha but i will let you digest all the info above first...any questions just ask us
lyn
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donnaexpat
knowlegable brummie
I was back in drum last week and drove down Glenavon rd to see my old house in kingsthorpe rd. it was weird after 50 years.
Gerry Cannell
master brummie
Hi Lyn, thank you for this, it throws a whole different light on dear Bertha. Forgive me, but you didn't send me the 1939 Eve of War register...did you?? As you said "if I look in the column that gives years of birth, it just gives 2 digits"; you sent me two print outs The 1901 Census and the one with all the HINTON information, have I missed one? Or is it me reading the print outs wrong? Sorry ladies. On the subject of Bertha, it must have been a tough life, I mean she was only a child herself, although probably a worldly wise one. The place that is mentioned, Court 1, House 13, Wainwright Street, Aston, sounds really dire. What a tough young woman. G. x
Gerry Cannell
master brummie
hi gerry no i have not sent you the 39 register yet..tomorrow i will post the 39 reg..the 1891 and 1901 census and berthas marriage cert just so that you get them all on the same post...you can save them if you wish..yes it was a tough life back then ..tougher than we will probably ever know...i may have a photo or photos of wainwright street before demo so i will check my photo files for you and post everything tomorrow..
myself and janice are still trying to find your grandad and grandmother on the 39 eve of war register so leave it with us
ps that photo you have posted could well have been the court bertha lived in if its not it would be very typical
lyn
myself and janice are still trying to find your grandad and grandmother on the 39 eve of war register so leave it with us
ps that photo you have posted could well have been the court bertha lived in if its not it would be very typical
lyn
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Gerry Cannell
master brummie
YES ! My mistake, it WAS 1976. Sorry...old age memory.
Gerry Cannell
master brummie
Wow! You got me, and that is Nan, Mom & Dad. Sadly Dad went ( along with thousands of others) off to war. Now....I'm not sure how long after this, but "Chick" ( Violet came to live with us while the war was on, joined later by Hilda for a while, and then if my memory serves me right..Irene later. I note that Chick's second marriage to a Mr GOURLAY is in green, this was a long time after her husband, my Uncle John ( Dads brother) had died. Also in Green, is Deaville, which was my Mom's second marriage, Dad having died in 1962, she married a Harold Deaville. Such interesting facts. Thank you. G x