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Thanks Janice and Rosie. The architects named on the postcard are Essex and Nicol. Viv.
If the building was on the site just below St. Martin's church, it could have numbered (a very rough guess) between #10 and #20 Digbeth. Was wondering if that stretch of Digbeth was bombed during WW2 ? Viv.
I've fiddled with Dennis William's aerial view in post #93 (thanks Rosie for the pointer) and I think I can just make out the unusual chimneys - red dots, and the gables either side of the green dot. Not 100% sure, but it's looking promising. If the Essex and Nicol drawing is this part of Digbeth I think it's quite a rare view. Viv.
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oldMohawk
gone but not forgotten
An aerial view of Digbeth taken in 1931 in a group of other views of that area from britainfromabove.
https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw037040?x=407520&y=286182&extent=1000&ref=20
https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw037040?x=407520&y=286182&extent=1000&ref=20
pjmburns
master brummie
See what you think of this building. https://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/BirminghamDB/
I tried it after a look in 1905 Kelly's. Not sure what it became later but looks similar.
Janice
I tried it after a look in 1905 Kelly's. Not sure what it became later but looks similar.
Janice
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Utterly fascinating Viv...brilliant find, some great sleuthing from the usual suspects....and voila....I think Mr Burns finally nailed it....another bit of history for our collection! Thanks to all...
Thanks all for pinning down the position of the Digbeth architect's drawing. And a great find Janice, spot on. Thank you. It's interesting that Dr Banardo's took on two units as a holding home until youngsters were moved to more permanent places. The building was designed as shops and residential, so I'm surprised Barnado's took the two units over in 1894, just 4 years after it was built. Maybe there was a particular demand to find a home for children around the markets area? Maybe the properties struggled to let to retail interests?
The 1954 Getty image below (previously posted by Phil here https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=38737&page=79) shows the buildings - behind the policeman - most probably damaged by WW2 bombing. The replacement buildings are an odd mix as seen in the second Phyllis Nicklin photo of 1960. Viv.
The 1954 Getty image below (previously posted by Phil here https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=38737&page=79) shows the buildings - behind the policeman - most probably damaged by WW2 bombing. The replacement buildings are an odd mix as seen in the second Phyllis Nicklin photo of 1960. Viv.
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pjmburns
master brummie
The other shops (21 and 22) which can just be seen to the right of the photo of Barnardo's were both listed as George Rushbrooke a butchers outfitters. This is according to Kelly's 1905. Still the same in 1913 (including Barnardo's) but by 1915 Rushbrooke was still there and 23 and 24 are not listed.
Janice
Janice
Radiorails
master brummie
G Rushbooke (Smithfield) Ltd. was a well known London company who, it seems also had a branch in Birmingham. I would not be surprised to find other large cities with a branch, especially those with a good meat market. They sold lots of products for the butchery. hotel and kitchen supply trades. Some of their products can be purchased as collectors items, from well known auction houses and web sites.
They changed name in more recent years but I believe, after almost 100 years, they are no longer trading. Their last address seems to be in Hove, Sussex.
They changed name in more recent years but I believe, after almost 100 years, they are no longer trading. Their last address seems to be in Hove, Sussex.
Thanks Janice and Alan. We're now getting a better idea of what this part of Digbeth High Street was like. I think eventually we might have guessed there'd be a butcher's shop along there somewhere given it's proximity to Smithfield Market! In fact I expect most of the businesses might have been connected in some way to the markets. I notice today there's a large grey building on the corner (#23 -#27) named Smithfield House.
When I worked in Bradford Street in the 1970s, my salary was paid into the Nat West Bank along this stretch of buildings. But I can't remember which building it was amongst those in Phyllis Nicklin's 1960 photo in post #192. The problem is they're quite indistinct. All I remember was that it was a fair climb up the hill, especially if you were in your lunch break and wanted to nip quickly to the bank.
I found this photo on the Shoothill site entitled "Street scene in Digbeth looking north towards the Bull Ring". I think these buildings must have been a little nearer St. Martin's than Dr Banardo's as the hill looks quite steep at this point. There's a vertical sign on one of the buildings with writing on it but I can't make that out. Viv.
When I worked in Bradford Street in the 1970s, my salary was paid into the Nat West Bank along this stretch of buildings. But I can't remember which building it was amongst those in Phyllis Nicklin's 1960 photo in post #192. The problem is they're quite indistinct. All I remember was that it was a fair climb up the hill, especially if you were in your lunch break and wanted to nip quickly to the bank.
I found this photo on the Shoothill site entitled "Street scene in Digbeth looking north towards the Bull Ring". I think these buildings must have been a little nearer St. Martin's than Dr Banardo's as the hill looks quite steep at this point. There's a vertical sign on one of the buildings with writing on it but I can't make that out. Viv.
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Radiorails
master brummie
Rushbrookes was not a simple butchers shop by the way. They sold, as I mentioned in my earlier post, many things for the catering trades. There were utensils, clothing, aprons, headgear, quite an assortment of pottery (cheese and ham dishes for instance) so were also a form of warehouse and distributor. Post 6 of this thread shows a picture of the place.
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=23229&page=11
Of course I have no idea of the extent of the business in Digbeth but I speak from experience, in the mid 19070's of buying much from them for a small department store. A perusal of a search engine suggests that there as also branches in Liverpool and Belfast - and probably other cities - plus a couple of court cases where employees stole from them.
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=23229&page=11
Of course I have no idea of the extent of the business in Digbeth but I speak from experience, in the mid 19070's of buying much from them for a small department store. A perusal of a search engine suggests that there as also branches in Liverpool and Belfast - and probably other cities - plus a couple of court cases where employees stole from them.
pjmburns
master brummie
Viv, not sure when that photo was exactly but 1905 Kelly's gives the following shops up to the Bull Ring. Photo on library website is dated 27th June 1902! decorations are being removed following the postponed coronation of Edward VII.
Looking at the original Shoothill photo I wondered if it could be for Osbornes? I thought I could make out an "ORN".
Janice
Looking at the original Shoothill photo I wondered if it could be for Osbornes? I thought I could make out an "ORN".
Janice
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That explains it, was wondering why products would appear on eBay! Imagined it was memorabilia from the shops themselves. But from your explanation it sounds like it was a predominantly wholesale business. Fits with the activities of the area around Digbeth at the time. Thanks. Viv,
Thanks Janice, that's looks very likely. The street number would be about right I think. Viv.
Rushbrookes continued in Birmingham till at least the 1970s, where they were in Bradford St , but moved to the end of Cheapside. Pictures of the two sites are in post 6 at
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=23229
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=23229
Mickymoo
master brummie
Looking at the original Shoothill photo I wondered if it could be for Osbornes? I thought I could make out an "ORN".......If you look at the picture on Shoothill it can be magnified,the sign says "Ironmonger".....
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Janice[/QUOTE]
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Janice[/QUOTE]
Thanks Mickymoo and Janice. Glad you cracked that one. It would have been just beyond the building with red window frames (on the left in this Streetview) going towards St. Martin's. The 1902 photo also shows G.Makepeace's building - second hand clothes dealer - across the road on the right. It's still there with the green tiled name high up at the top of the building. Viv.
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great info and research on vivs photo folks....enjoyed reading it great to see this area of brum being talked about again....a few weeks back i was given about 80ol d photos that i have not seen before and when i have time i am researching a few of them..mike if you spot this post could i have a map please showing where shops w williams and son...j carson barber and wj wilday rabbit skins were located along the high st they were more or less next to each other...the photo says high st deritend from heathmill lane but i dont know if that means the row of shops were on the opposite side of heathmill lane or the same side...difficult to date the photo..maybe around the 1920s...many thanks mike..here is the photo..there is something about this area that has always fascinated me..
lyn
lyn
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Lyn
Map c1889 below, with nos 29 & 41 marked. Obviously the protruding building is shown on the map. According to Kellys it seems to have been W Williams 38-39 High St Deritend from at least 1890 -1921. In 1921 Catherine Wilday is marine shop dealer at no 32, but in 1915 it is William John Wilday, though of course it could be she could have not bothered to change the name on the window. In 1921 it William Kenny , hairdresser at no 34, but in 1915 it is John Carson, but in 1913 it is William Kenny again. To me this would seem to mean that the hairdresser was William Kenny before and after WW1, but John Carson took over while William was at the war. So the picture was taken during WW1 .
Map c1889 below, with nos 29 & 41 marked. Obviously the protruding building is shown on the map. According to Kellys it seems to have been W Williams 38-39 High St Deritend from at least 1890 -1921. In 1921 Catherine Wilday is marine shop dealer at no 32, but in 1915 it is William John Wilday, though of course it could be she could have not bothered to change the name on the window. In 1921 it William Kenny , hairdresser at no 34, but in 1915 it is John Carson, but in 1913 it is William Kenny again. To me this would seem to mean that the hairdresser was William Kenny before and after WW1, but John Carson took over while William was at the war. So the picture was taken during WW1 .
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This is an aeriel view from about the 1920s. Viv.
What about the Turks head on alcester street?