Fox and Grapes - Digbeth

[horsencart]

The Question that has not been asked is "what happened to the street name plate for Freeman Street" I do know that shortly before pub was demolished the street sign that was fixed to the pub wall went missing the street sign was about 15? feet in the air, so own up who has the long ladders and a big screwdriver, I think I do know the answer but I cannot tell without proof, this is what normally happens to the Street Signs

https://flic.kr/p/UdeMMu

 

[Astoness]

H and C see post 231 my day of demo report

lyn

 

[horsencart]

"i called over 2 HS2 bosses to ask a few questions
the 3 chimney tops and the freeman st sign are with heritage which is good news"


And the reply was ?

H and C see post 231 my day of demo report

lyn

 

[Astoness]

not sure i understand horsencart...that was the reply i got from the HS2 bosses when i asked where the freeman st sign and 3 chimney tops were...they said they are with heritage

lyn

 

[horsencart]

I really must read these things properly

not sure i understand horsencart...that was the reply i got from the HS2 bosses when i asked where the freeman st sign and 3 chimney tops were...they said they are with heritage

lyn

 

[ellbrown]

There is blue hoardings along Park Street where the Fox & Grapes is, no room to stick your camera through it.

It is just about possible to get your camera over the railway bridge looking to Primark.



The hoardings are too high! But a view from the top deck of a bus should be ok, if the window is clear and not steamed up from rain! Although there is not much point taking anything behind the hoardings when there's nothing to see!

 

[mikejee]

I like the way the name Primark is partially obscured by a large girder. Pity the rest of the building is not obscured.

 

[horsencart]

With the state of my knees and eyesight it would be case of a stumble than a wander

HnC,

One dark night feigning drunkeness I suppose you accidentally wander in and have a gander!

Maurice

 

[sospiri]

I know the feeling well, HnC, and I totally agree Mike.

Maurice

 

[Vivienne14]

Did the F& G ever go by another name ? The earliest reference I can find for the pub is this May 1840 auction advert in Aris’s Gazette. A good description of the extent of the business and presumably built up over a period of some time before this advert. Undoubtedly it must have benefited from Curzon Street station traffic. Viv.

 

[pjmburns]

Viv - in the 1828-29 Pigot's directory (earliest on Ancestry) it is listed as just the Fox.

 

[pjmburns]

Interestingly it is still listed as The Fox in the 1850 and 1855 directories. After your 1840 auction.
1862 directory and the 1868 Kelly's call it the Fox and Grapes.

 

[mikejee]

The Warwickshire victuallers database, which is very incomplete, (https://apps.warwickshire.gov.uk/VictuallersDb/victuallers/indexes?order=pub&page=15&show=30) lists Thomas Burton as landlord in 1802 & 1803 (the only landlord of the pub it does list) .

 

[mikejee]

Have just seen the last two posts an it would seem it kept changing name, as in 1902-3 it was the Fox & Grapes

 

[Vivienne14]

Thanks Janice and Mike. Very helpful. On the Victuallers list it seems to lose the “Grapes” from 1807 until the 1820s.so at some later point it seems to have reinstated the “Grapes” back into the name.

Listed as the “Fox”
1807 - 1808 landlord Thos Burton
1810 - 1817 landlord James Grove
1819 landlord James Grove
1826 - 27 landlord James Grove

Viv

 

[Vivienne14]

Crossed posts Mike ! Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

In August 1857 it was described as an “old established House and Spirit Shop” and was at this time known as the Fox & Grapes Inn. Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

Also referred to simply as the Fox Inn one month later (Sept 1857). So maybe the names became interchangeable. Viv.

 

[Nello]

How sad this all is. A place full of history and pictures to prove good times and it all ends up consigned to history in a pile of dust. Drove past this place many times and hoped it would be saved. I'm actually a Coventry-kid (sorry folks!) and the same thing has happened to The Rocket Pub there - full of history / part of the 2-Tone story but pulled down for the main station expansion. I posted this image from Britain from Above in the Paternoster Row thread but for those that have not seen it - yes thats the Pub marked with the Blue tag. You simply would never know what was there today without images like these....

1958 -

 

[BlueAsh]

I hope there's no rules about bringing back old topics, but my grandparents ran the pub in the '70s and I was wondering if anyone had any information about the size of the pub, I'm studying architecture and I want to make a scale drawing of it, but I can't find anything about how tall it was, or the floor plans.

 

[Astoness]

I hope there's no rules about bringing back old topics, but my grandparents ran the pub in the '70s and I was wondering if anyone had any information about the size of the pub, I'm studying architecture and I want to make a scale drawing of it, but I can't find anything about how tall it was, or the floor plans.

hi blueash and welcome...i think that could prove difficult...it could be a case of guess work from the photographs we have posted on this thread...having said that dont give up just yet as someone may be able to help regarding the size of the pub...sad to see it go..i was there on the day it was demolished

lyn

 

[BlueAsh]

My mom and family were so heartbroken when it was demolished, they'd planned to buy the pub before HS2 and the fire put a stop to it, they've got their own theories about the fire, but it irritates me so much it was demolished for something that didn't come to fruition. I'm still trying to see if the brewery has any pub signs my nan had painted, but I got passed around from pillar to post trying to find out more.

Hopefully I can find more info about the pub, but I've found people tend to be really poor at recording measurements of historic buildings.

 

[Astoness]

could not agree with you more...if you read this thread from the beginning you will see that i tried so hard to save the pub..along with mike hodder we attended many hs2 meetings to put our case..all fell on deaf ears of course and even now i am still so angry..i am just wondering if the library of birmingham have anything on the fox and grapes because of its long history..ie old plans etc..ps i did manage to come away with 2 bricks from the front door and these bricks are original

lyn

 

[mikejee]

Doesn't show much, but here is the insurance plan for that corner from the 1890s

 

[BlueAsh]

could not agree with you more...if you read this thread from the beginning you will see that i tried so hard to save the pub..along with mike hodder we attended many hs2 meetings to put our case..all fell on deaf ears of course and even now i am still so angry..i am just wondering if the library of birmingham have anything on the fox and grapes because of its long history..ie old plans etc..ps i did manage to come away with 2 bricks from the front door and these bricks are original

lyn

I'll have to send them an email, my grandparents moved to Wales in the '80s but my grandad worked in the museum for a bit during the '80s. It's really heartbreaking seeing people trying their best to get it preserved only for the powers that be to disagree, the building was from the 1700s, if not 1600s.

A part of me wants to just redesign something and have the pub replaced one day, but I can be overly optimistic! It's a bit like The Kings Hall in Aberystwyth, that'd been knocked down in 1989 and even now the town's still mad about it. I don't know an awful lot about Digbeth beyond it being where my mom was born and the family had lived around there for a few hundred years, but I know it was one of the more important buildings there like The Custard Factory.

Thanks for the insurance plan Mike! I really appreciate getting even the smallest bits of history about the place.

 

[paul stacey]

Great map, so much detail .