Hi - hope you can help me. Im looking for whether there is a headstone for my great great grandmother Esther Hudson and dont know where to even where she is interred at this cemetary. I have the Birmingham Cu=church of England cemetery record (assuming burial but Im not certain). She is down as number 91363 Jan 1930. Number of grace 1429 section P (I think - but the handwriting makes it difficult). Does anyone have a map of this area please????
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Esther Hudson
- Thread starter Lily_Mae
- Start date
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
It will be behind the wall that is at the rear of the old Mint building. No headstones on Public Graves.
Thank you Brian. Im now a bit baffled, as was hoping there would be a headstone and some family info on the headstone. the death cert is odd to say the least. She died at home in Heaton Street, she lived with her son and his wife and her daughter in law was present at her death, and she lived with family all her life (I cant find a marriage certificate for her sister and her husband who she lived with - they were noted as married on all census records) and I know she had 2 children. But her marital situation is peculiar to say the least. Did people lie on death certificates for fear of shame? Different times I guess and I guess I will never know. But its very very odd.
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Hi Lily Mae, Headstones were and still are expensive, as are private graves. Most working class people struggle with day to day living, and there fore can only afford, a Public Grave, This is akin to "renting" a room in a tower block of flats instead of owning a detached house.
May of the public graves in P section at Warstone Lane (from memory) have been used several times. They are very deep - contain scores of burials, than after several decades (once everyone has "settled down", they are reopened and "topped up" with score more. Some have been used several times and contain several hundred people. the cheapest burials you could afford. Midland Ancestors has catalogued the occupants of each grave, the Burial numbers are in sequence, so a full list of the grave occupants show the burial order.
Even Churchyards, would clear areas of the graveyard and burial all remains in one small plot, put the headstones against a wall or down as a path, than refill the area.
The majority of people in the Public Cemeteries are actually in unmarked graves, nowadays with cremation, it is even more so, where ashes are "scattered"
Many elderly relatives end up living with a son or daughter in their old age, especially when they can no longer work, and have no Old Age Pension, Housing Benefits, Universal Credit, etc.
Very differant lifestyles to today.
pjmburns
master brummie
It may be that whoever registered the death knew about the children and assumed she was married. She is also a "widow" on the 1901and 1911 censuses.
Both children Ann and William are registered Hudson with no mmn.
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You would have got that info from my ancestry record. I had to trawl through a lot of stuff to even find out she had a daughter because the family never mentioned her, she died so very young of some ricketts like diseqse I don’t think my gt gt grandmother married or I can’t find a record of it. She went from living with her family. Both her parents died in the 1860s. By 1861, she was living with her elder brother with the rest of the siblings and his wife. By 1871 she was living with her sister and her “husband”, but I can’t find evidence of a marriage. But the BIL lived in the same court two or 3 doors down. Esther remained their with her son (my gt grandfather) until her son married and she moved with that household.
it was a different time. My gt grandfather stated a father on his marriage certificate, which I don’t believe is his father. First Name his uncles, surname his birth surname.
esther noted herself as a widow, with a name of a husband on census documents and on the death cert which was registered by her DIL. But this cannot be True.I can only surmise they were protecting her memory.
as I said - very little info in the family, we know she didn’t marry and there is a off the cuff comment about my gt grandfathers father. But until I dug out her detail of her daughter, even my aunt did not know and that came as a shock.
I was hoping for more info of her elder brother, her sister etc. at he moment researching both is problematic. Cant find the brother after 1861. His wife died in the workhouse in the mid 1860s.
pjmburns
master brummie
I didn't use any trees on Ancestry. I looked things up. Found censuses and then used GRO.
I didn't find a marriage for Samuel and Mary Ann. I suspect he might have been already married. It was not uncommon for couple to live together and refer to themselves as Mr and Mrs - people assumed they were married.
As Esther is "Hudson" on all the census records I found plus the 2 children registered with no mmn it points to the "widow" being face saving.
Who are you trying to trace?
I didn't find a marriage for Samuel and Mary Ann. I suspect he might have been already married. It was not uncommon for couple to live together and refer to themselves as Mr and Mrs - people assumed they were married.
As Esther is "Hudson" on all the census records I found plus the 2 children registered with no mmn it points to the "widow" being face saving.
Who are you trying to trace?
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I’m trying to find see if I can shed more light on the family dynamic. I’d like to know more about the brother William Hudson and what happened to him. But I just can’t trace him after 1861. There is another brother who may have been a convict but ivenot had an opportunity to dig deeper there. I’ve traced Samuel to where he grew up and can’t trace another marriage. Either there or Birmingham. I’m fairly sure I did research Mary Ann and traced her to the workhouse and a child there, but I’ve lost my notes, it’s possible she was married but I can’t find evidence of that. Or the dynamic of the family was such that neither sister wanted the formality. I just don’t know.
it all seemed to go wrong after ester and Mary’s parents died in a very short amount of time.
id like to know who my gt grandfathers father was. But that’s impossible now I think.
I think he came from a village outside Macclesfield, Bollington where there was a stone quarry. sometimes in the census records he mentions congleton and it’s kinda between the two. It fits given his later occupation as a paviour. There are parish records but I’ve not found anything yet. But I’ve not had much time. I know he lodged in the same housing court as the Hudson family in Birmingham a couple of houses down. So that would be how they met.
MWS
from Bham
Again with reference to your Hudson family thread, assuming Priscilla was a widow when she died then there are 2 death registrations for William Hudson in 1863 Bham, both Jun qtr. One is listed as 27 which would be a spot on match but the other is listed as 29 which wouldn't really rule it out.
There also appears to be a burial record for the former at Holy Trinity, Bordesley. There is a burial record for his mother here in 1860 (mentioned by Alberta, other thread). If there's an address listed and it matches then it must be him.
MWS
from Bham
Oh well, I was hoping it would be Latimer St. Still don't think it would rule it out but it might need death certificate now to confirm.
Especially as William and Priscilla appear to have a daughter, Emily Elizabeth 1861 - 1863 and on her burial (also at Bordersley) her address seems to be Latimer St
Especially as William and Priscilla appear to have a daughter, Emily Elizabeth 1861 - 1863 and on her burial (also at Bordersley) her address seems to be Latimer St
pjmburns
master brummie
I did find a criminl record for a George but couldn't attach it to your George for certain.
Thats as far as I got with George too.
I ordered a digital copy from the GRO (£2.50) and it only contains the top half of the info but I cant see the address. Ill have to order the full death certificate. The occupation fits though. That said cause of death is peculiar, Hamophysis in violation of God. I dont know what that means. Suicide?????? Looks like there will be a coroners court record somewhere. So thats another avenue to pursue. Its gets murkier.
MWS
from Bham
There are newspaper reports (I mentioned them on the other thread) mostly for passing counterfeit coins. His address is listed as Wilton St and Heaton St. In 1881 & 1891 he is in prison and back in Bham in 1901.
Still wasn't certain if he was the right one.
It was in the family at the time. His dad, died of a lung condition as did Priscilla. Sounds like TB or a similar infectious agent to be honest.
Ill take some time out to the Birmingham Archives. I don't live in Birmingham so it will be a day trip out.
I’ll order the death certificate for Emily as well. It’s just so sad.
