The road going north towards Six Ways from Kingsbury Road must be Woodend Lane/Wood End Lane - "Roger Field" to the right of Wood End Lane ? . Sorry if this is obvious to others, but I'm trying to get bearings.
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Erdington in the 18th and 19th century
- Thread starter Pedrocut
- Start date
Very helpful ! Thanks.
Info from Bill Dargue's site:
In 1655 Thomas Fox was given permission by Sir Robert Holte to create two pools near Erdington. One was Mere Pool, the other was Marl(e) Pool. (According to Bill, Marl is clay dug to be spread on the land to improve its fertility...... name perhaps suggests that a pool or pit already existed here)
In 1655 Thomas Fox was given permission by Sir Robert Holte to create two pools near Erdington. One was Mere Pool, the other was Marl(e) Pool. (According to Bill, Marl is clay dug to be spread on the land to improve its fertility...... name perhaps suggests that a pool or pit already existed here)
Also and pre-enclosure, a corruption of Cuckoo/Cuckow, was "Cuckolds" Corner, located at Sutton Road/Chester Road junction. Chester Road - a route used by Welsh drovers taking their livestock to London and Midlands.
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Re map in post #32, in 1798 What Croft, address confirmed as Marsh Lane with William Turner one leasee, and William Crisp another. There was also a "Marsh Pool" close by. (could this be the Marl pool ?)
In 1808 What Croft was occupied by John Carter.
In 1808 What Croft was occupied by John Carter.
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Re brick kilns. From at least 1814 - 1817, Richard Thomas had the Erdington Brick Kilns. There were 3 kilns, a drying house and a large quarry. He was bankrupt by 1817.
Richard Thomas is reported as an Erdington brick- maker and farmer in 1799.
Richard Thomas is reported as an Erdington brick- maker and farmer in 1799.
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Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
The 1878 Kelly’s describes Erdington, and lists…
Machin Charles, Sutton Road. (Coal merchant)
Machin Edward Spooner, Park Villa. (Surgeon)
Machin George, Blythe House. (Farmer and brick maker)
There are two Brick and Tile Manufacturers listed for Erdington being George (Erdington) and Nock (Holly Lane)
George is not listed as a Builder in the directory.
Machin Charles, Sutton Road. (Coal merchant)
Machin Edward Spooner, Park Villa. (Surgeon)
Machin George, Blythe House. (Farmer and brick maker)
There are two Brick and Tile Manufacturers listed for Erdington being George (Erdington) and Nock (Holly Lane)
George is not listed as a Builder in the directory.
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This looks like the sale of land (1831) opposite St Barnabas church/chapel on High Street (Lichfield road turnpike). (The land may have later been broken down into smaller lots). This advert must be referring to the land upon which the Easy Row houses were eventually built, with the brick kilns and quarry situated behind. This is discussed in the High Street Erdington thread.
If this is correct, the brickworks must have been "Erdington Brickworks" (re post #39 - Richard Thomas 1814-17) and at some later point acquired by the Machin's (it's unlikely they had Nocks brickworks the only other identified brickworks on Holly Lane).. Perhaps the Machins acquired the land at the time of this advert in the 1830s, followed by the building of the Easy Row 2 storey terraced cottages sometime soon after.
If this is correct, the brickworks must have been "Erdington Brickworks" (re post #39 - Richard Thomas 1814-17) and at some later point acquired by the Machin's (it's unlikely they had Nocks brickworks the only other identified brickworks on Holly Lane).. Perhaps the Machins acquired the land at the time of this advert in the 1830s, followed by the building of the Easy Row 2 storey terraced cottages sometime soon after.
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So the Machins can't have bought the land offered for sale in 1831. Also, we don't know if the Machin's built the Easy Row cottages. We know that they eventually owned them, but they may have been built by someone else. Was Machin ever listed as a builder ? Can't recall seeing that as an occupation, only Highways Surveyer, Brick-Maker and Farmer (unless I've missed something). Maybe he/the family only made and supplied bricks.
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Brasscaster
master brummie
Thanks that's helpful.
Re Machins as builders:
That means that if George Machin's father, Charles, bought the land in post #41, ChasM could feasibly have built the High Street cottages (named "Easy Row"). Perhaps George Machin (b1841), his son, came to own them by inheriting them from his father Charles. Pity we don't know the date of the cottages.
I've just checked other related threads, and it seems George, too, had at one time been listed as a builder, among his many other roles.
Re Machins as brick-makers
I came across this report of a fire on Charles Machin's land. The land was near Holly Lane (is it coincidence that Nocks brickworks was once at Holly Lane ?). Could Charles Machin have had this brickworks at Holly Lane prior to Nocks? (Nock didn't come to Erdington until the 1850s).
Still a lot of 'ifs' but I think worth exploring if only to uncover the impact of the Machins on Erdington at a time when it was going through significant expansion.
Re Machins as builders:
That means that if George Machin's father, Charles, bought the land in post #41, ChasM could feasibly have built the High Street cottages (named "Easy Row"). Perhaps George Machin (b1841), his son, came to own them by inheriting them from his father Charles. Pity we don't know the date of the cottages.
I've just checked other related threads, and it seems George, too, had at one time been listed as a builder, among his many other roles.
Re Machins as brick-makers
I came across this report of a fire on Charles Machin's land. The land was near Holly Lane (is it coincidence that Nocks brickworks was once at Holly Lane ?). Could Charles Machin have had this brickworks at Holly Lane prior to Nocks? (Nock didn't come to Erdington until the 1850s).
Still a lot of 'ifs' but I think worth exploring if only to uncover the impact of the Machins on Erdington at a time when it was going through significant expansion.
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Or....
Further info about George Machin's small (and later) brickworks below.
Albert Stephenson wrote a book in 1933 about Birmingham's Brick Masters. In it he says:
Source: UK Named Bricks: Birmingham Brickworks
Further info about George Machin's small (and later) brickworks below.
Albert Stephenson wrote a book in 1933 about Birmingham's Brick Masters. In it he says:
Source: UK Named Bricks: Birmingham Brickworks
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Just wondering if a "Brickyard" and a "Brickworks/Brick Works" are the same thing. Note ChasM rented a "brickyard" from Lord Howe in 1865 (Janice's post #6) Later, ChasM owned the brickyard in 1870 (Janice's post #7)
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mw0njm.
A Brummie Dude
for practical purposes, the terms
"brickyard" and "brickworks" (or "brick works") refer to the same thing: a facility or site where bricks are manufactured.
The terms are often used interchangeably in historical documents and modern language. Both refer to places where the raw materials (clay and sometimes coal) were processed and fired into bricks.
Historically, the term "brickyard" might have suggested a simpler operation, while "brickworks" could imply a more industrialized facility:
"brickyard" and "brickworks" (or "brick works") refer to the same thing: a facility or site where bricks are manufactured.
The terms are often used interchangeably in historical documents and modern language. Both refer to places where the raw materials (clay and sometimes coal) were processed and fired into bricks.
Historically, the term "brickyard" might have suggested a simpler operation, while "brickworks" could imply a more industrialized facility:
- Brickyard: This term was historically used for operations that made "clamp bricks," which involved an open-air process without permanent kilns.
- Brickworks/Brick Works: This term tended to be used when a permanent kiln (such as a Hoffman kiln) or more substantial machinery was involved, indicating a larger, more modern concern
Thanks Pete, that helps to differentiate a little. "Brickyard" then suggests possibly a smaller concern, without permanent kilns, hence the reference to *hand-made bricks" somewhere else in all this discussion.
mw0njm.
A Brummie Dude
Brickyard - Wikipedia
Brickworks - Wikipedia
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
In the William Fowler address in 1885 to the Erdington Institute he says…
”This Old Rey was the brook formed by the junction of two little streams, both rising in Erdington, which cross the Tamworth Road, one near to the Nickel Works, and the other near to the Farmer's Boy public-house, which unite a little lower down and enter the River Tame near to Berwood
Hall and Castle Bromwich.”
So where was the Old Rey Brook, the Farmer’s Boy and the Nickel Works ?
”This Old Rey was the brook formed by the junction of two little streams, both rising in Erdington, which cross the Tamworth Road, one near to the Nickel Works, and the other near to the Farmer's Boy public-house, which unite a little lower down and enter the River Tame near to Berwood
Hall and Castle Bromwich.”
So where was the Old Rey Brook, the Farmer’s Boy and the Nickel Works ?
thats a very good question pedro...i will take a look and hopefully some of our other sleuths will research..
lyn
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
The stream referred to as “Old Rey” by Fowler is said to rise in Erdington and join the Tame. So it couldn’t be the Rea.
If you go north from the Nickel Works, across the Tyburn Road you can see an arrow pointing eastward. This I believe shows the flow of water.
Could this be a brook ?
If you go north from the Nickel Works, across the Tyburn Road you can see an arrow pointing eastward. This I believe shows the flow of water.
Could this be a brook ?
just beat me to it jan..found it on this map
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
Looking on the map Janice posted and looking NNW from the Farmer’s Boy there is another arrow pointing S. This could be the other stream mentioned by Fowler ?
”This Old Rey was the brook formed by the junction of two little streams, both rising in Erdington, which cross the Tamworth Road, one near to the Nickel Works, and the other near to the Farmer's Boy public-house, which unite a little lower down and enter the River Tame near to Berwood
Hall and Castle Bromwich.”
Some info on the Farmers Boy Inn, Tyburn Street ("Tyburn Street" quoted in 1874 newspaper)
1874, William Reeves landlord in 1874
1898, Mrs Day was at the Farmers Boy Inn, Tyburn
1899, the house of Sarah Day public house Farmers Boy Tyburn. Barman William Faulkner
1874, William Reeves landlord in 1874
1898, Mrs Day was at the Farmers Boy Inn, Tyburn
1899, the house of Sarah Day public house Farmers Boy Tyburn. Barman William Faulkner