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Courtyards and yards of brum

Just watched the YouTube clip from post 261. Brilliant.
I've promised myself i'll go to the back to backs one day.
 
(We'll have to stop meeting like this, nffan !)

I've just watched the YouTube clip too.
My Gran lived in 2/19 Norman St., Winson Green. I was reminded of how, when I was very small, I used to be terrified of going down that entry.
 
Indeed we will mayploebaz!
I can imagine they were dark scary places for a kid.(before my time sorry!)
 
No fun whatsoever living in a back house, I speak from experience, came out of the RAF after 8 years service in 1956 had a choice of living with in laws or living in a back house in Vicarage Rd Aston whilst accumulating a deposit for a house, chose the latter. We were there from '56 till '62, I can remember sharing an outside toilet with 2 other houses 2 brew houses between 12 houses in the courtyard for washing, peeling wall paper, had to redecorate every 6 months, mainly due to a gas cooker causing condensation in the small living room, no kitchen just a sink top of cellar steps, coal fire downstairs, small gas fire upstairs and no heating at all in the attic (my daughters bedroom), rotting window frames, draughts every where and a private landlord who did not give a dam. The only advantage was cheap rent (12/6). It was paradise when we moved to Hillside Rd Erdington, 3 bedrooms, garage bathroom 2 toilets, large front and back garden. Those back to backs they have preserved do not give a true picture at all (no damp, rotting woodwork etc...). Eric
 
Hi Cookie.
I agree, and it was the same in the "front" house.
I honestly can't think of anything nice to say about coming from a slum.
Even in the 60's it was third world!
 
Thank you so much for posting this photograph of Lupin Street in Duddeston! My grandmother Selina Hunt was born here in 7 court 2 Lupin Street 1899 ... Her family then moved to Belvedere Place another back to back set up in Duddeston! My father said how poor his Grandparents were!
I,m also looking for photographs of Belvedere place Duddeston as well as Moseley Street back to backs if any one has any ..of which I want to include for my family research for our family!
this site us brilliant .... Thanks again Bernie! For posting this!
 
Ah Cookie you forget about the most important thing of all. What about all that family love and belonging, that's important surely? I telephone my mob every week and even in our eighties they still tell me off like I was still a nipper. Kind regards David
cookie273uk said:
No fun whatsoever living in a back house, I speak from experience, came out of the RAF after 8 years service in 1956 had a choice of living with in laws or living in a back house in Vicarage Rd Aston whilst accumulating a deposit for a house, chose the latter. We were there from '56 till '62, I can remember sharing an outside toilet with 2 other houses 2 brew houses between 12 houses in the courtyard for washing, peeling wall paper, had to redecorate every 6 months, mainly due to a gas cooker causing condensation in the small living room, no kitchen just a sink top of cellar steps, coal fire downstairs, small gas fire upstairs and no heating at all in the attic (my daughters bedroom), rotting window frames, draughts every where and a private landlord who did not give a dam. The only advantage was cheap rent (12/6). It was paradise when we moved to Hillside Rd Erdington, 3 bedrooms, garage bathroom 2 toilets, large front and back garden. Those back to backs they have preserved do not give a true picture at all (no damp, rotting woodwork etc...). Eric
Click to expand...
 
All I can say is that I had a lot of friends who lived in backs in the 50's/60's, and every one I knew were well balanced and happy, coming from loving family's, they did't have much in the way of modern conviences, or material wealth, but on the whole had a good upbringing that was sound. I remember one of my mates saying it was lovely in the new flat but he missed having no one to "talk to", when in the toilet. as they had two together I his old house, and nobody much said "good morning" in his new place
 
paul stacey said:
All I can say is that I had a lot of friends who lived in backs in the 50's/60's, and every one I knew were well balanced and happy, coming from loving family's, they did't have much in the way of modern conviences, or material wealth, but on the whole had a good upbringing that was sound. I remember one of my mates saying it was lovely in the new flat but he missed having no one to "talk to", when in the toilet. as they had two together I his old house, and nobody much said "good morning" in his new place
Click to expand...


well put paul and david.. i guess it does depend on our experiences but i was born in my nans back to back moving when i was 5 but continued to visit nan up until about 1968 when she was forced to move (and trust me she did not want to) and i will always remember it with great fondness..

lyn
 
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I never lived in a Back to Back house, but had mates who did, I agree with cookie and Bill123, there was nothing 'good' to say about them.

Nick
 
brummie nick said:
I never lived in a Back to Back house, but had mates who did, I agree with cookie and Bill123, there was nothing 'good' to say about them.

Nick
Click to expand...
Living in a back to back gave us no cause to comment at the time, it was all we knew, we had a roof over our heads.
We can make lots of comments now but at the time we were happy with our lot, at least those living around Brookfields were.
 
I was merely stating the extremely poor living conditions of living in (most) back to back houses, particularly noticeable to my late Wife and I as the previous 2 1/2 years we had lived in modern married quarters in Hong Kong and Singapore whilst serving in the RAF. I repeat the experience was soul destroying. Having said that the neighbours, all in the same boat, were the salt of the earth and we all helped each other out, nothing wrong with the residents it was the unfit to live in housing and the uncaring Landlord If they had been council owned they would probably have been in a better state of repair (they were built in the 19th century). They were demolished in the 60's I'm glad to say. I should add the council did offer us a 2 bedroom modern flat, but it was in Telford New Town, no good to me. Those restored back houses are nothing like those we lived in. Eric
 
Hear, hear. We lived in a terrace, and as you say, knew no better, but it was a good home, I had Aunts, Uncles & Grand parents in back to backs, and they were cosy, warm & just the job for small families.
Once they were moved out into 'newer' accommodation - that was when you noticed the improvements - but at the time they were OK.
Brian
 
Brian, Glad to hear yours was cosy and warm, you must have had a more caring Landlord than us who kept his dwellings in a decent state of repair, we dreaded the cold weather, the house was cold, damp and draughty (I done my best to improve it but with scant success) we spent our time huddled up to the fire, a cast iron contraption most of the heat seemed go up the chimney !!! Still it made us appreciate our next abode (a semi in Erdington) all the more. Eric
 
berniew said:
View attachment 81937
My mother in law lived here years ago
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I know this place! In about 1957 we stayed, temporarily, with Jim and Rita Hinks, both sadly now deceased, and their daughter Maureen. Now of Wylde Green. And Peggy the dog. Rita, my Aunt, managed the Erdington Laundry shop premises on the right of the photo. We all piled in to the cramped living quarters above the shop. Mum, me, Michael, Josephine, Christine and Gerald. I went to school in Alma Street, just around the corner, for a while. Then my soldier father was posted to Malaya, so we left, much to the relief of the Hinks family, and stayed 3 years in the Far East. Bit of a change of scene!
 
This is where the Birmingham back to backs are, corner of Hurst St and Inge St, these have all been done up now and are owned by the National Trust and open to the public, the last back to backs left, a great find. the shop on the corner is a sweet shop, the one next door is Harry Cohen Tailor, log onto Birmingham back to backs to book a guided tour. I work there myself as a tour guide.
 
I have worked my way through all of this thread as I was looking to see what the back to backs of Summer Lane were like.
There was a 'mystery picture' posted by 'Two' (I think), which someone later said looked closest to the style of the Summer Road courtyards etc - and that might confirm something for me, as it seemed to be raised up, higher than street level (that photo had railings).

This photo, below, (according to a person in America who posted it on Ancestry - who is descended from my great-aunt Catherine Brislin who emigrated to America), is of Catherine's mother, Mary Brislin (my great-great g/mother) and her daughter-in-law, Bridget, my great-grandmother.
The 1881 census puts the whole family, including widowed Mary, as living at Summer Lane Court 4 House 6
Mary died in 1887 aged 68 (that is confirmed by her grave card that I have an image of).
So this photo is most likely between 1881 and 1887 and I feel it shows them on some sort of raised up terrace or courtyard.
I seem to recognise the factory in the background - because when we lived in Aston, and when we moved to Perry Common, we used the number 7 bus a lot, and as it turns left into Alma st to go to town it passes along Summer Lane and that factory, I am fairly sure, was on it - broken windows in the 1960's
So the back to backs they lived in could have been opposite the factory - I wonder if that makes sense to anyone else that may remember the factory, and you can see by the level of the lamppost behind them that it is some kind of raised terrace..

- but I have some questions about it - if it was between 1881 and 1887 I am wondering why Bridget's skirt was so short.
Plus, the picture is quite clear - so I am wondering was photography so good back then.

I have no doubt that Bridget is my relation as she looks very much like a harder version of my mom and my niece.
I am not surprised that Mary (the older lady) looks so old - such a hard life - coming to England from Ireland during the time of the potato famine, with her children.
I'll add the photo via a Photobucket link, as I have already used some upload memory today and this week.

MaryBrislinandBridgetCollins-Brislin_zps9db7b227.jpeg~original
 
I would have thought that, except Mary did die in 1887, and, also it was the 1880's that they lived on Summer Lane.
Also, the photo can be no-one else in the family, and they are definitely my ancestors.

One thing that might confirm it is that I've read that poorer people weren't always that conventional about skirt length,* especially when it cost money - her hair - maybe shorter because of nit situation - she had about 5 children by then, my granddad, Martin, one of the younger ones, born in 1883- she would have been in her 40's - she also had one, Agnes, that died at about 10 days old.

* what Mary, the older one is wearing, corresponds to what we might expect from the 1880's I think, especially from an older woman.
 
I am not an expert on cloths, but the younger women does not fit into what I would expect in the 1880s. Not just the length of skirt, but also the shoes and the bare arms. As to the photo itself, victorian full plate cameras gave exceedingly clear detailed photos, but they would have been unlikely to be used for this sort of photos and often used slow shutter speeds, and , to me , the photo does not have the texture I would expect of a photo of that period. That said, from what you say it must be.
 
I have photos from the 1880's and the clothes are nothing like the older lady is wearing here. I would also suggest it was the 1930's or even 40's. One may be your ancestor, the other may not be, but it is easy to assume if photographs are in your possession that they are family, but it's not necessarily the case. Perhaps this os one photo that you will not ever discover the truth about - I have plenty, you aren't alone there if that is the situation.

Shortie



maz_beth said:
I would have thought that, except Mary did die in 1887, and, also it was the 1880's that they lived on Summer Lane.
Also, the photo can be no-one else in the family, and they are definitely my ancestors.

One thing that might confirm it is that I've read that poorer people weren't always that conventional about skirt length,* especially when it cost money - her hair - maybe shorter because of nit situation - she had about 5 children by then, my granddad, Martin, one of the younger ones, born in 1883- she would have been in her 40's - she also had one, Agnes, that died at about 10 days old.

* what Mary, the older one is wearing, corresponds to what we might expect from the 1880's I think, especially from an older woman.
Click to expand...
 
Shortie said:
...but it is easy to assume if photographs are in your possession that they are family, but it's not necessarily the case....
Click to expand...
thanks for posts..

they are my relatives - it was from a person on Ancestry who is descended from my great aunt Catherine who went to the u.S. - so I presumed that her English cousins had sent the picture and it was handed down...it was labelled Bridget and Mary.
So I have been thinking today how else would it fit...that maybe, the elder woman is Bridget (my great-grandmother who lived till 1926), but then I wondered who the younger one is, who is SO like my mom and niece...
then I remembered that Bridget had a daughter called Mary-Anne (my grandfather's elder sister).
So, I have left a message for the person who provided the photo.

****** - I hope you see this - which Mary is it in this? As Mary McKenna Brislin died in 1887 - and the clothes that the younger woman is wearing do not seem to fit in for that time.
Is it that the older lady is Bridget who lived till 1926? (my great-grandmother), and the 'Mary' is Mary-Anne' (her eldest child I think)?
Only you can confirm this, as I think, you are the owner of the photo.
~~~~~~~

so thanks for getting me thinking.
I am still wondering if the place they are could be a Summer Lane court - although they did move around a lot.
I know when my granddad was discharged from the Army in 1919 his address, with his mom Bridget, was No. 3 Elim Place Aston Road. Maybe that was it - and that was a back to back if off the main Aston road.
Trying to find an old map with it on now.
 
Below is map c 1917 showing Elim Place. There does not seem to be anywhere in the place that would give a view of a factory like that over a wall

map_c_1917_aston_road_showing_elim_place.jpg
 
thanks for that - my search wasn't finding anything.
So, it's still a mystery where the two women were, whatever year it was...where that raised up courtyard was.
It just really reminds me of the factory building on Summer Lane, but if it is the 1920's they weren't there then, I think - they had lived at John St. too at some point.
 
Just for completeness, court 4 Summer Lane also does not appear to have any similar position. the map is c 1889, but the c1917 seems the same

map_c_1889_summer_lane__court_4.jpg
 
Well this is a fascinating discussion, the way we can interpret the past though a photograph. It is a great image and certainly got me thinking, it does seem to be a too candid shot for 1880. Certainly the location is questionable, I was wondering if any of the forum members could date the gas lamp in the back ground.
 
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