Chunk works Coventry Road

[debbieironmonger]

Hi wonder if any of you can help me decipher the meaning of a description about my ancestors.
They were John Rhodes & co, Fire Ironmakers from Deritend and in a dissolution of partnership are described as 'Holding mill power at the Chunk Works, Coventry Road' and 'Holding mill power at the cotton mills, Fazeley Street. What does holding mill power actually mean? Anyone?

 

[Tinpot]

Hi wonder if any of you can help me decipher the meaning of a description about my ancestors.
They were John Rhodes & co, Fire Ironmakers from Deritend and in a dissolution of partnership are described as 'Holding mill power at the Chunk Works, Coventry Road' and 'Holding mill power at the cotton mills, Fazeley Street. What does holding mill power actually mean? Anyone?

It sounds like owning the capacity to power a milling machine. This might be some kind of water rights if water driven or steam engine to create steam to run mill. That's just my guess. Others might know better.

 

[Spargone]

Chunk Foundry listed in the 1918 Directory of Manufacturers located at River Street, Deritend - suggests the use of water power?

 

[Morturn]

This is one of those questions that do get you both thinking and researching.

I have never heard of “holding mill power” however I do know that rights to water for driving water mills etc were guarded jealously and there a history of a lot of conflict around this.

 

[Tinpot]

Illustration of Chunk Works

 

[Tinpot]

This is one of those questions that do get you both thinking and researching.

I have never heard of “holding mill power” however I do know that rights to water for driving water mills etc were guarded jealously and there a history of a lot of conflict around this.

It might even mean holding a proportion of timed access to milling.

 

[Pedrocut]

April 1850, Birmingham Journal…

 

[Morturn]

It might even mean holding a proportion of timed access to milling.

You may be right. I know of a canal water pumping station at Leawood Pump House in Derbyshire that had restricted pumping times because of the mills further downstream.

 

[pjmburns]

Not Chunk Works but definitely referring to a mill. 1848 London Gazette.

 

[pjmburns]

Article linked below suggests: Water mills also served to change the balance of power, both locally and nationally. On a local level, whoever operated and controlled the mill had the most power.

The Influence of Water Mills on Medieval Society | Encyclopedia.com

The Influence of Water Mills on Medieval SocietyOverviewThere were many sources of power used before the Industrial Revolution of the eighteenth century. The use of slave labor was the first source of large-scale power. This was followed by advances in animal power that were made possible by the...

www.encyclopedia.com

 

[Tinpot]

The reference to a cotton mill was interesting to me having worked in textiles 'up north'. Was the milled cotton being used locally? Read this morning the there was a textile mill in the village of Fazeley that was producing printed calico.

Some quotes about water management issues at Fazeley st from consultations in 2008 about the Warwick Bar.

 

[Morturn]

The reference to a cotton mill was interesting to me having worked in textiles 'up north'. Was the milled cotton being used locally? Read this morning the there was a textile mill in the village of Fazeley that was producing printed calico.

Some quotes about water management issues at Fazeley st from consultations in 2008 about the Warwick Bar.

I have a feeling that the mill building and the pond and mill races are still there

 

[pjmburns]

Going a bit off title but

Fazeley Mill, Fazeley - 1245134 | Historic England

List entry 1245134. Grade II Listed Building: Fazeley Mill. May include summary, reasons for designation and history.

historicengland.org.uk

c1884 map shows 2 mills "old" and "new in Fazeley. The yellow marker is Lichfield Street

c

 

[pjmburns]

Going back to original question. Chunk Works River Street were on the side of the River Rea c1884

 

[mikejee]

I have a feeling that the mill building and the pond and mill races are still there

Yes. it has , in at least part, been converted to flats

Fazeley Mill, Lichfield Street, Fazeley, Staffordshire | Educational Images | Historic England

Fazeley Mill was a textile factory made in 1886. It was built for William Tolson by Messrs Wattons of Lichfield. This building is a great example of a late 19th century textile factory. It was specifically designed for the manufacture of narrow fabric. This mill represents the continuing...

historicengland.org.uk

Plans unveiled to convert Grade II listed Tolson's Mill into housing - Lichfield Live®

An historic building in Fazeley could be converted into 110 apartments and houses if new plans get the go-ahead.

lichfieldlive.co.uk

 

[Tinpot]

Is the reference to cotton mills in Fazeley Street Birmingham likely to be Heath Mill then?

 

[mikejee]

Where is the reference to a cotton mill in Fazeley St, as opposed to one in Fazeley? There was once a cotton mill in upper Priory
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Priory_Cotton_Mill)

 

[Tinpot]

Where is the reference to a cotton mill in Fazeley St, as opposed to one in Fazeley? There was once a cotton mill in upper Priory
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Priory_Cotton_Mill)

Post #1&#7

 

[mikejee]

The following cutting from 1940 , to me, implies that the term did not necessarily
mean that a cotton mill was there, but that it was just a name.


Charles Clifford's mill in c1889 is shown in red below



However the c1839 Wrightsons directory shows that the factory, smaller, was then owned by William Phipson', Beside this factory is Cotton Street. The Pigott Smith map of c 1824 also shows the same Cotton St. But not sure where the cotton st name came from.

 

[mikejee]

The entire area around there seems to have been up for sale in 1825

 

[mikejee]

Just an idea, which I would like Tinpot's opinion on. AS there seems, as yet , to be no evidence of a real cotton mill that might give rise to
the name Cotton St, I was wondering if the name came from the use of its products. As I understand it, fibres, including cotton have to be carded to remove rubbish and align threads, this is done by running the raw material through rollers which are covered in pins. William Phipson was originally a pin maker, so could it be that a large proportion of his pins were aimed at the carding industry?

 

[Tinpot]

Just an idea, which I would like Tinpot's opinion on. AS there seems, as yet , to be no evidence of a real cotton mill that might give rise to
the name Cotton St, I was wondering if the name came from the use of its products. As I understand it, fibres, including cotton have to be carded to remove rubbish and align threads, this is done by running the raw material through rollers which are covered in pins. William Phipson was originally a pin maker, so could it be that a large proportion of his pins were aimed at the carding industry?

I knew I had read this somewhere about carding. So maybe. I have also thought about cotton and paper milling.

 

[Pedrocut]

March 1824, Aris’s….Farlow Cotton Mill, worked by the River Rea, situated 8 miles from Bewdley.

 

[Pedrocut]

January 1822, Birmingham Chronicle.

 

[mikejee]

Thanks Tinpot. Was not aware of that. There are several mentions of Lewis Paul and his machine in the newspaper archives, though he did not seem to make any money from it, and I cannot find any connection to Fazeley St or Philpots.

 

[Pedrocut]

According to the Birmingham Daily Post of August 1861 collections of Robert Cole FSA went under the hammer.

Compton and Arkwright little more the than plaglarists according to Lewis Paul !

 

[mikejee]

Other references seem to agree that he preceded Arkwright with John Wynn but was not well supported. He later invented the carding machine

 

[Pedrocut]

According to the Birmingham Daily Post of August 1861 collections of Robert Cole FSA went under the hammer.

Compton and Arkwright little more the than plaglarists according to Lewis Paul !


View attachment 161671

The Birmingham Gazette goes on to explain that it is perhaps a wide of the truth to say that Lewis Paul invented the machinery for spinning cotton as to claim that honour for Arkwright…The honour should go to John Wyatt of Birmingham…

 

[Tinpot]

The Birmingham Gazette goes on to explain that it is perhaps a wide of the truth to say that Lewis Paul invented the machinery for spinning cotton as to claim that honour for Arkwright…The honour should go to John Wyatt of Birmingham…

View attachment 161680View attachment 161681

Such interesting cuttings this morning. Tinpot

 

[debbieironmonger]

Article linked below suggests: Water mills also served to change the balance of power, both locally and nationally. On a local level, whoever operated and controlled the mill had the most power.

The Influence of Water Mills on Medieval Society | Encyclopedia.com

The Influence of Water Mills on Medieval SocietyOverviewThere were many sources of power used before the Industrial Revolution of the eighteenth century. The use of slave labor was the first source of large-scale power. This was followed by advances in animal power that were made possible by the...

www.encyclopedia.com

Thank you for sharing that article, it explains why they would have needed to access the mill as they would have needed that power for forging metals. They were fire iron makers.