• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

Childrens Education

Alf

Gone but not forgotten. R.I.P.
On Tralfagar day I asked my 12 year old what was mentioned about Trafalgar day at school that day and he said nothing.

Question is friends should the subjects we were taught be taught today

Bearing in mind that when 10 t0 14 years old were asked the question who got defeated at the Battle of Hastings 1066 38% said Winston Churchill

I rest my case

:(
 
well, I remember, in history at secondary school (I went to Erdington Girls grammar school, now plain old Kingsbury school), we were taught about the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215.
I must have been 12 or 13 when we learned that.
I am now 46, and I only began to understand what it actually was, and meant, the other day, :o when I was researching the bible translator John Wycliffe.
I wonder if history wasn't properly integrated into how it affects us today, in the way it was taught then.
It never seemed to have any relevance then...or perhaps it was my particular history teacher, and the fact that our classroom looked out onto the school front garden and I sat near the window at the back. ;)
I find it interesting now, though, and the computer is so useful for studying.
I'll have to ask my 12 year old if they did about Trafalgar last week.
 
I agree Mazbeth, but even now when I say to the older ones about our family History, like do you know George III was on the throne when so and so were born, its oh yes.

My 19 year old even asked yesterday when's the next Leap Year Dad.

What can they be thinking about all day? Might ask them this evening :-\
 
I think recent history should be taught, say the last 100 years, such as the 1st & 2nd world wars, as this is a thing kids must know so that hopefully it does'nt get repeated. But really who care's what Henry Vlll did or 1066 and all that, its too far back to have any relevance.
 
Just a couple of points there Dave......  we are still reffered to as Crusaders by certain middle eastern cultures, a grudge still held from the times of the Crusades, and still very relevant.

The Crusades have become most relevant to current events. American and British troops presently occupy Iraq and Afghanistan, and Israelis and Palestinians are locked in an endless and bitter struggle. The Crusades may well be prophetic for the future. Like it or not, a terrorist struck a chord when he recently called the West "Crusaders."

I always found history very interesting at school, and believe its important to teach our history, both modern and ancient to our children. There are a lot of things we can learn from knowing our pasts, no matter how far back that might be. Many of us here research our own family histories back as far as we can, it's both fascinating and relevant. This Forum came into being because of history, and it's still it's main focus in my mind, no matter how old that history might be, it's relevant.
 
Sorry to go off topic a little here but can I pose a question which I think is relevant?

Can anyone honestly say they are not intrigued by the Mystery, the hows, whys and wherefores when they think of perhaps Stonehenge, The Spyhnx, The Great Wall of China. There are so many more we could all think of some enigmatic, historic event/place. If we set a child thinking of and exploring these times far back in our pasts, and even those things which are closer to us, doesnt it help explain what and who we are, and why we are. Doesnt it help to foster that need to know? which pushes us forward.... History is the backbone that supports us all perhaps?
 
With todays multi-racial classes in schools, who's history do the teachers teach ?. :-\
 
We are all, I believe, part of our family members who went before us generations ago.  I've said it before but everytime I look at my son I see my father, the same colouring, the same eyes, the same mannerisms.   To see the more recent past and the sacrifices made in two world wars and then go just a little further back and see the appalling poverty suffered by the working classes, my gt.grandparents  raised 11 children in a two up, two down. Women and men old years before their time. Back further still to see the British slave trade alive and well until Wilberforce came on the scene. Only gone back to the late 1700's, over 215 years Dave and it's all important. Oh yes, the back-to-backs, over a hundred years old Dave, so not important eh.
 
Histoy has a relevent place in our lives, no matter how ancient. Walk in a gravel pit and find a hand axe, a pot boiler, or a piece of flint that was used by our forebears thousands of years ago. Doesn't that make the hair stand up on the back of your neck Dave. It ought to, because our history is part of us, it makes us who we are. We forget that at our peril.
 
Steady Basil you could Brush up a lot of nice people BOOM BOOM :2funny:
 
THIS FASCINATING RAISE IS OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE. PART OF THE ISSUE CONCERNS BAMBOOZLEMENT OF MANDATORY PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION STAGES. THE NOTION(-ality) TO DO WITH THE SUPER-IMPOSITION OF THE ANTICS OF POWER GRABS, SOCIALLY SANCTIFIED BY THE MYSTIFICATION OF TITLES, IS AN HISTORICAL PROFILE AS A PROCESS. THE POWER STRUCTURES OF EUROPE ARE, OF COURSE, A WONDERMENT (INVOLVING MANY LAND AS DOMINION OF PROPERTY RESOURCES WHERE MILLIONS WERE MOBILIZED TO SERVE IN WARS BASED ON THE ASSUMPTION OF SERVICE TO AN IDEAL WHICH WAS A FICTION).
THAT IS HARD SCIENCE NUTS AND BOLTS. THE PHENOMENON CONTINUES TODAY IN ASSORTED GARBS; NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH IS RELIGION. OF COURSE THE SOCIAL SANCTIFICATION SITUATION IS A SECULAR EQUIVALENT OF "god for harry, england and st george!". SOMEWHAT ANALOGOUS TO THE ROLE OF PSYCHIATRIST AS A MODERN DAY EQUIVALENT OF THE PRIEST. INDEED THE OLDEST PROFESSION IS NOT THAT OF THE HARLOT BUT THAT OF THE TRIBAL WITCHDOCTOR-CHIEF REGIME.
SOCIAL ECONOMIC HISTORY IS ROUTINELY NOT TAUGHT PROPERLY IN SECONDARY STAGE. INDEED IT IS HIGHLY CONTENTIOUS AS TO WHAT WHOLESOME ROLE TEACHING ABOUT COLONIAL-IMPERIAL HISTORY SERVES AT PRIMARY STAGE.
SURELY THE (W)HOLISTIC SITUATION IS THAT ONE COMMUNICATE THE BALLOON OVERVIEW (IT IS INFLATED) INSTEAD OF A LINEAR (COCKAMAMIE NOTION) AS TO PRGRESSIONS OF EUROPEAN MONARCHS AND ASSOCIATES.
LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON'S LONDON HOUSE; ALSO THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE (SOMERSET HOUSE [allo]; BLENHEIM, etc.. THIS ALL CAME ABOUT QUICK. APPARENTLY WHEN QUEEN VICTORIA WAS IN MOURNING ON THE ISLE OF WIGHT FOR OVER A YEAR "OUT OF TOWN" IT WAS REPORTED THAT LONDON MERCHANTS BECAME DESPONDENT SHE WAS NOT VISIBLE. IF THIS IS NOT CRACKPOTOLOGY WRIT LARGE THEN WHAT IS? SHE WAS HARDLY EVER VISIBLE. INVESTITURES AND SO ON AND SO FORTH NOTWITHSTANDING SHE MAINTAINED HER JOB AS AN EXECUTIVE MONARCH. BUT WHAT, IF THE QUALITY PRESS REPORTS ARE CORRECT, DID HER SUPPOSED PRESENCE AT EITHER BUCKINGHAM PALACE (AS THE FIRST BRITISH MONARCH TO OCCUPY THE FACILITY) AND/OR WINDSOR HAVE TO DO WITH THEIR MERCANTILE DAY TO DAY ENDEAVOURS?

THE SQUABBLES, WARS HAVE TO BE PLACED IN CONTEXT AND AS WELL THE CONDITIONS OF MASS SOCIAL CHANGE. (WHAT ABOUT ALL THOSE CAMP FOLLOWERS?) DID NOT THE ROTHSCHILDS HAVE STATIONED OBSERVERS AT THE FATEFUL CHARGE OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE WHOSE JOB IT WAS TO DESPATCH HOMING PIGEONS TO LONDON AS TO THE OUTCOME THAT MOMENT OF CONCLUSION?

YOUNGSTERS HAVE A MARVELLOUS ABILITY TO ABSORB AND PROCESS INTELLIGENTLY PROVIDING HISTORICAL MATERIAL IS PRESENTED WELL. BUT WHAT NARKS SO MANY OF SUCH AS THE CORRESPONDENT'S DAUGHTER'S AGE IS THE SHEER AND AWSOME FACT THAT EUROPE HAD ALL BUT DESTROYED ITSELF TWICE OVER IN LESS THAN A HALF CENTURY WITH TWO WORLD WARS WITH AN INTERVENING SLUMP AND DEPRESSION OF UNCONSCIONABLE SUFFERING. UNDERSTANDABLY THEY FEEL STIFLED: ECONOMICALLY. NOTHING NEW.
IN 1946 THERE WERE BUT A QUARTER MILLION GIRLS AND BOYS IN GRAMMAR SCHOOLS IN BRITAIN.
SURELY THIS IS AN INDEX GERMANE AS TO A CLASS SYSTEM WHICH WAS EFFECTIVELY A CLASS SYSTEM.
WINSTON S CHURCHILL AT THAT TIME NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH UNIVERSAL EDUCATION TO REVISE THE (then) HISTORICALLY OUTMODED HANGOVER FROM FEUDALISM IMPEDIMENT IN THE POST WW II MODERNER WORLD.
THE PURITAN REVOLUTION WAS NOTHING MORE NOR LESS THAN SUCH BY THE ASCENDANT BOURGEOIS AGAINST FEUDALISM. THE RELIGION BEING A RATIONALE TO REGIMENT MASSES. AT THE WEDDING OF THE DAUGHTER OF OLIVER CROMWELL THERE WAS SERVED ALE, CIDER WITH MUSIC, DANCE. THAT CLIQUE DID THEMSELVES WELL.

THE PSYCHIC IMPLOSION EXPERIENCED BY SO MANY YOUNGSTERS IS UNDERSTANDABLE IN SOCIOECONOMIC TERMS. POST WW II THE WEALTH OF THE CUMULATIVE HERITAGE OF WORKING CLASSES (IE EVERYBODY WHO HAS TO WORK FOR A LIVING) WAS SYSTEMATICALLY DESTROYED IN EVER SO MANY WAYS.

GIVEN THE HISTORICAL STARTING POINT OF THE ISLAND OF BRITAIN AS THE WORLD'S FIRST BOURGEOIS REVOLUTION UNDER HENRY VIII THE BASIC COMMON SENSE SIMPLE LOGIC PROGRESSION WOULD HAVE BEEN SYNDICALISM. BUT THAT WAS THROTTLED. QUITE CONSCIOUSLY DELIBERATELY.
AND CONTINUES THIS DAY.
 
:-[
COULN'T CORX: class to actually a CASTE system. Attempted but baffled. (To recap: Ye Olden School Tie etc..)
Doubtless I'll spruce up with ongoing controversy.
Incidentally the Ministry of Education was muffled and so asphyxiated as part and parcel of a program to beyond mollificatory.
:police:
 
Talking of history, at school I thought it was almost as boring as scripture even in junior school days, but that may have been because that was during WW2, when teaching was a bit patchy. At school we never did any local history which even then I found fascinating, and I used to borrow books from the library. When I won a school prize in 1949 I picked Walter Allen's book on the Black Country (by coincidence he was an old boy of Aston Grammar). The teacher was put out because it had a cardboard cover with a picture on, and everyone else always had books with plain hard covers, into which they would emboss in gold the school coat of arms. He was worried that I might be disappointed at not having the school crest on my book!
After I started work in the 1950s I went to evening classes run by the University on the history of Brum, but that all stopped when I came to Londoin in 1959.
When I took early retirement 17 years ago I took up local history here in Croydon - and then the wonderful Brum Webring Forum comes along, and now I am in my second childhood, rediscovering things I almost remember. Marvellous!
Peter
 
Hello Peter :),
when you (and others) mention Aston Grammar, is that the school that is now King Edward's Grammar school? (Or maybe was)
Just interested, as my brother went there, although not until the early 70's.
 
Yo Mazbeth :-* King Edwards Grammar School has been in Aston since 1850,s? (I think :-\)

There was a second Grammar School on Whitehead Road, Aston,, started around 1963,ish?

This was the Holte Grammar,,,formerly Aston Commercial,,the building plaque states 1899 year of build.

Hope this information helps a little,,,Cheers ,John
 
Gosh - that was a lot to take in ;) Oh blast I just clicked on that smiley and lost what I'd typed. Very interesting points hmld. My daughter (a teacher) taught her teens "History Mysteries" - Jack the Ripper, Bermuda Triangle, yetis, vampires, King Arthur - all designed to introduce them to the social scene, the area and situation, the beliefs of the time of course and hopefully to get them to READ! She teaches English in a school that is not particularly academic - not an easy task.
Dave - I think we don't teach students much about recent history because the truth doesn't out for X number of years - until it's "history"! I've learned more about WWII lately than I ever knew.
 
Back
Top