I have been busy tracing my wife's family tree and as part of it discovered that one of her relatives (her Fathers half brother), although not employed by the BSA was a member of the Home Guard, 6th Birmingham (Factories) Battalion later the 26th Warwickshire (Birmingham) Battalion as a Despatch Rider. As a result of his actions during the night of the the 19th November 1941 he was subsequently awarded the British Empire Medal. His name was William Anthony Saragine and though I have found some information out about him, it is proving difficult with all of her relatives who would have been able to help deceased. If anyone has anything that could help I would be very grateful as she would be to
-
Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.
We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
norfolk brummie
gone but not forgotten
In 1946, aged 13, while still at Golden Hillock Road School. a few of us were taken on a factory visit to the BSA. During the tour I recall looking at the bombed section of the factory, which was still there. I seem to recall that it was one of the corner sections of the factory.
We were told that the site still contained some bodies. We all said a small prayer at the site. Eddie.
We were told that the site still contained some bodies. We all said a small prayer at the site. Eddie.
Hi Reddi
I have William Saragagine BEM,
At an early Stage in the raid the External Telephone System Was Put out of Action,
Additional fire Fighting units Were Needed So Saragine Volunteered and on a motor cycle he called at the fire Station in the Area ,
The Anti aircraft Barrage Was Severe And High Explosive And Incendiaries Were Dropped continuously,
Three Times He Was Blown From his Machine by bomb Blasts And on At Least One Occasion, he Passed Within A Few Feet Of A
Delayed Action Bomb
Saragine Took His Life in his Hands during the Whole Period He Was On Duty, So He Got The BEM Medal For His ActionsThis Is Recorded In The Michael Minton
Book of Birmingham heroes Birmingham air raids Listed Along with Other Heroes Of The War Years
Best wishes and I hope this Helps you ,, Astonian,,,,,,,,,,
I have William Saragagine BEM,
At an early Stage in the raid the External Telephone System Was Put out of Action,
Additional fire Fighting units Were Needed So Saragine Volunteered and on a motor cycle he called at the fire Station in the Area ,
The Anti aircraft Barrage Was Severe And High Explosive And Incendiaries Were Dropped continuously,
Three Times He Was Blown From his Machine by bomb Blasts And on At Least One Occasion, he Passed Within A Few Feet Of A
Delayed Action Bomb
Saragine Took His Life in his Hands during the Whole Period He Was On Duty, So He Got The BEM Medal For His ActionsThis Is Recorded In The Michael Minton
Book of Birmingham heroes Birmingham air raids Listed Along with Other Heroes Of The War Years
Best wishes and I hope this Helps you ,, Astonian,,,,,,,,,,
bewdley
master brummie
Hi Reddi - don't know whether you already have this info, if not, I hope it helps
this link is regarding his BEM https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7378236
On the 1939 Electoral Roll - William Anthony and Annie Elizabeth Saragine were living at 2 court 26 William Street Ladywood.
William A Saragini, mother’s maiden name Matthews, birth registered in Aston September quarter 1913 6d 880
I have found this 1911 census, which could be his parents; Luigi Saragini age 20 Ice cream vendor, wife Florence Kate age 20, daughter Gladys May 11 months living at 4 Adderley Street.
this link is regarding his BEM https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7378236
On the 1939 Electoral Roll - William Anthony and Annie Elizabeth Saragine were living at 2 court 26 William Street Ladywood.
William A Saragini, mother’s maiden name Matthews, birth registered in Aston September quarter 1913 6d 880
I have found this 1911 census, which could be his parents; Luigi Saragini age 20 Ice cream vendor, wife Florence Kate age 20, daughter Gladys May 11 months living at 4 Adderley Street.
Hi reddi
He was section Leader Volunteer 6 th. Birmingham Battlalion. Home guard BSA Guns Ltd
Along with Arthur Richard Edmund Harris, Works Pipe Fitter at BSA Guns Limited
Best wishes Astonian, please Read The Previous thread Above And Of Harris As Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
He was section Leader Volunteer 6 th. Birmingham Battlalion. Home guard BSA Guns Ltd
Along with Arthur Richard Edmund Harris, Works Pipe Fitter at BSA Guns Limited
Best wishes Astonian, please Read The Previous thread Above And Of Harris As Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Astonian/Bewdley
Many thanks for the information, it gives a little more detail to the family tree.
With regards to Williams Mother, Florence Kate, she subsequently married my wife's Grandfather (Luigi having died in 1915) going onto have children by him, including my Wife's Father.
As I said any information is welcome, although my Wife used to visit William (Bill as he was called) when she was a child nothing was ever mentioned about this award.
All we need now are photographs. The search goes on.
Many thanks for the information, it gives a little more detail to the family tree.
With regards to Williams Mother, Florence Kate, she subsequently married my wife's Grandfather (Luigi having died in 1915) going onto have children by him, including my Wife's Father.
As I said any information is welcome, although my Wife used to visit William (Bill as he was called) when she was a child nothing was ever mentioned about this award.
All we need now are photographs. The search goes on.
bewdley
master brummie
oh if only we could find photographs of our ancestors, I know there are some out there somewhere of my mum's family, but as they are all deceased and she has no idea where they went (the photos that is) then I don't expect I shall ever see them, but, I'm always looking and you never know - good luck in your search
Be nice to know Bronson. Hope someone can tell us. Viv.
The other day somebody sent me a copy of a letter ( dated 9th December 1971) from the service department of the BSA factory. The letter was sent to an M20 owner in the USA, and this is a quote from this letter:
“From the serial number WM20 97102 which you quote, we would imagine that the machine would be produced around 1943. Unfortunately, it is not possible for us to be more positive, as so many of our records were destroyed by enemy action during the war.”
Oops, the BSA ledgers that survived continue up to approximately WM20.70000 (late 1942). I thought that the Blitz happened much earlier…? Time to do some research! (I love doing this research! See also https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/for...-in-upper-highgate-street-hit-by-bombs.47784/
“From the serial number WM20 97102 which you quote, we would imagine that the machine would be produced around 1943. Unfortunately, it is not possible for us to be more positive, as so many of our records were destroyed by enemy action during the war.”
Oops, the BSA ledgers that survived continue up to approximately WM20.70000 (late 1942). I thought that the Blitz happened much earlier…? Time to do some research! (I love doing this research! See also https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/for...-in-upper-highgate-street-hit-by-bombs.47784/
Last edited:
First of all here’s a detail from the Birmingham bomb census map (showing all the bombs that fell on B’ham during WW2). Black dots are High Explosive bombs, red dots are incendiary bombs, crosses are unexploded bombs. Looks as if the factory was hit by 8 bombs, one of these being a UXB that fell in the canal. Two (one HE, one incendiary) bombs fell on the entrance of the New Factory (left hand side of the illustration), one HE halfway Armory Road, one incendiary and one HE on the “Small Arms Factory” (is this where they made the guns I wonder?), and one incendiary and one HE at the back of the old Victorian factory (right hand side of the illustration).
I used this map as an overlay on Google Earth, where you can also see aerial pictures from 1945 when you go through the timeline:
This is the same area today:
And this is the war time photograph with the bomb dots transferred from the bomb census map:
Transferred to another (post war) photograph:
I used this map as an overlay on Google Earth, where you can also see aerial pictures from 1945 when you go through the timeline:
This is the same area today:
And this is the war time photograph with the bomb dots transferred from the bomb census map:
Transferred to another (post war) photograph:
Thanks to Google I also found some information on these bombings:
On https://www.bsatrust.org I found the following quote: "Inevitably, the Small Heath BSA works was marked on Luftwaffe maps of the area as one of their main targets. In 1940 the factory was bombed 3 times in 3 months, killing 53 people, injuring 89 injured, and destroying more than 4 acres of the factory."
On https://thebirminghampress.com/2010/11/53-killed-at-bsa-works-19th-november-1940/ I found this: "On the night of the 19th November 1940 Birmingham suffered one of its worst air raids of the blitz when a German bomber dropped two bombs on the Armoury Road site of the Birmingham Small Arms factory at Small Heath. Many night shift workers that night had stayed at their machines when the sirens sounded. When they did decide to vacate the factory floor the intensity of the raid made it impossible for them to reach the air raid shelters safely. That night they chose to shelter in the basement of the reinforced concrete factory, only one worker would be pulled out alive after being trapped for 9 hours, the rest were crushed to death when the complete factory building collapsed on top of them after two direct hits. Wartime reporting restrictions meant that the raid could not be reported by the media."
More information about the November 19th air raid on https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/32/a2116432.shtml (very interesting article!!!) No doubt these are the two bombs (one HE, one incendiary) that fell on the entrance of the New Factory (left hand side in the previous illustrations). On https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/misc/misc_bsa&singer337.htm I found this: "a major air raid on 26th August 1940 damaged the main barrel mill and 750 machine tools causing disruption to production. Serious damage and loss of life was caused during heavy air raids on 19th and 20th November 1940, destroying the machine shops in the reinforced concrete building. The damage effected 1,600 machine tools and halted rifle production for three months, after which armament production was dispersed to shadow factories.” But when I look in the ledgers, the production of the M20 was going strong until November 19th 1940 (approximately WM20.30000). Some bikes were despatched the days after the raid, but then we have a gap until the end of December! It looks as if the production of the WM20 was halted for a month due to this air raid!
On https://www.bsatrust.org I found the following quote: "Inevitably, the Small Heath BSA works was marked on Luftwaffe maps of the area as one of their main targets. In 1940 the factory was bombed 3 times in 3 months, killing 53 people, injuring 89 injured, and destroying more than 4 acres of the factory."
On https://thebirminghampress.com/2010/11/53-killed-at-bsa-works-19th-november-1940/ I found this: "On the night of the 19th November 1940 Birmingham suffered one of its worst air raids of the blitz when a German bomber dropped two bombs on the Armoury Road site of the Birmingham Small Arms factory at Small Heath. Many night shift workers that night had stayed at their machines when the sirens sounded. When they did decide to vacate the factory floor the intensity of the raid made it impossible for them to reach the air raid shelters safely. That night they chose to shelter in the basement of the reinforced concrete factory, only one worker would be pulled out alive after being trapped for 9 hours, the rest were crushed to death when the complete factory building collapsed on top of them after two direct hits. Wartime reporting restrictions meant that the raid could not be reported by the media."
More information about the November 19th air raid on https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/32/a2116432.shtml (very interesting article!!!) No doubt these are the two bombs (one HE, one incendiary) that fell on the entrance of the New Factory (left hand side in the previous illustrations). On https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/misc/misc_bsa&singer337.htm I found this: "a major air raid on 26th August 1940 damaged the main barrel mill and 750 machine tools causing disruption to production. Serious damage and loss of life was caused during heavy air raids on 19th and 20th November 1940, destroying the machine shops in the reinforced concrete building. The damage effected 1,600 machine tools and halted rifle production for three months, after which armament production was dispersed to shadow factories.” But when I look in the ledgers, the production of the M20 was going strong until November 19th 1940 (approximately WM20.30000). Some bikes were despatched the days after the raid, but then we have a gap until the end of December! It looks as if the production of the WM20 was halted for a month due to this air raid!
Also according to the same website, August 26th 1940 was another black day for BSA ("a major air raid on 26th August 1940 damaged the main barrel mill and 750 machine tools causing disruption to production.”) Could this have been the incendiary bomb that fell on the “Small Arms Factory” I wonder? (see previous illustrations). Does the picture below show the damage that was caused by this bomb? I don't know... I don't recognise this place as one of the spots in the war time photographs with transferred bomb census dots. Does anybody know the exact place where this picture was taken?
Last edited:
Further research in the BSA ledgers has revealed that the motorcycle production didn’t stop or wasn’t delayed shortly after the August 26th air raid. It looks as if the factory where the guns were made had been hit on August 26th, rather than the factory where the motorcycles were assembled. This theory may be confirmed by this quote that I found in one of the websites that I listed above: “Serious damage and loss of life was caused during heavy air raids on 19th and 20th November 1940, destroying the machine shops in the reinforced concrete building. The damage effected 1,600 machine tools and halted rifle production for three months, after which armament production was dispersed to shadow factories.” Looks as if the “August 26th 1940” and the “19th and 20th November 1940” dates got mixed up, because on November 19th the “New Factory” was hit by two bombs and motorcycle production was delayed for a month…
Any further comments or additional information would be gratefully received!
Regards,
Jan
Any further comments or additional information would be gratefully received!
Regards,
Jan
Thanks for your comment Robroy. To be honest, I've also been thinking in that direction... Could the building at the left be the Truscon building that is still standing today in Armoury Road?
But the pointed gables on the right don't look like the buildings in the other picture don't they? And the bomb census map doesn't show any bombs in that area... Don't know...
Jan
But the pointed gables on the right don't look like the buildings in the other picture don't they? And the bomb census map doesn't show any bombs in that area... Don't know...
Jan
Hi Jan,I was born in Sparkbrook in 1947. I went to Golden Hillock secondary School in the early sixties..I had school friends that lived in Armoury Road, I know the area well. I can remember a lot of the bomb damaged buildings in the area. As children we used to play in them. Some of the markers on your maps indicating bomb damage are not very accurate..I know it's a long time ago. but I have a clear memory of the streets that were bombed, regards Roy'
I also know that this bomb damage location map is not entirely accurate. I know of houses that were actually bombed, and the evidence of this is still there today, but the map is no showing the correct location. This may have been deliberate. Good intelligence work and propaganda is not only what you gather but also what is given out. I understand that there were Wartime reporting restrictions on the effects of the bombing raids in Birmingham too.
It may be also worth considering how machine shops or tool rooms like those at the BSA operated. Lots of individual machines, lathes, milling machines, jig boring, shapers etc. Operated my skilled tool makers, it was quite easy to shift production from making gun parts to motorbike parts.
I was fortunate in that in the mid 70’s I spoke to a couple of people who had witnessed these bombings first hand and had worked with the emergency rescue teams. Interestingly, both people gave different accounts of the events.
This is not uncommon as people do modify their memories to make sense of the present. Also, how they saw the events of that night, will vary from person to person. You only have to listen to people talking about last night’s football match to see this.
It is an interesting piece of research your conducting, so I hope that you will continue to share your finding with us.
It may be also worth considering how machine shops or tool rooms like those at the BSA operated. Lots of individual machines, lathes, milling machines, jig boring, shapers etc. Operated my skilled tool makers, it was quite easy to shift production from making gun parts to motorbike parts.
I was fortunate in that in the mid 70’s I spoke to a couple of people who had witnessed these bombings first hand and had worked with the emergency rescue teams. Interestingly, both people gave different accounts of the events.
This is not uncommon as people do modify their memories to make sense of the present. Also, how they saw the events of that night, will vary from person to person. You only have to listen to people talking about last night’s football match to see this.
It is an interesting piece of research your conducting, so I hope that you will continue to share your finding with us.
Is it just me...?
I don’t think that the damage in #4 would have been caused by an incendiary bomb. My knowledge is, that they were quite a small device about 300mm long with a tin tail fin, designed to cause fire.
I too am racking my brain with the photo location. The photo by Astoness #11 is certainly Armoury Road. I am tempted to think that #4 this may not be from that area
I too am racking my brain with the photo location. The photo by Astoness #11 is certainly Armoury Road. I am tempted to think that #4 this may not be from that area
These pictures (#4 and #11) definitely show "similar" locations, but I'm convinced now that #4 is not the main entrance in Armoury Road. Maybe this photograph wasn't taken at BSA at all...? Other people may have made the same "mistake" as Lyn did, and once something's been published on the internet, photographs and stories are copied all over the World Wide Web, and this is how errors seep into history...
We need more war time photographs of the BSA site shortly before or during WW2 in order to compare details and find out "where" (and "if") this picture was taken at the BSA factory...
Here's a starter...
Jan
We need more war time photographs of the BSA site shortly before or during WW2 in order to compare details and find out "where" (and "if") this picture was taken at the BSA factory...
Here's a starter...
Jan
