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Brogan family

It looks as if James Henry's birth was registered twice. I would imagine once before the marriage and once after so that his surname appeared as Brogan not Hale.
First reg in April -May-June quarter. The marriage and re register of birth in Jul-Aug-Sept quarter.
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oh golly -thank you ! a bit of a mystery here then. I didn't know you could register a birth twice ? My suspicious mind is wondering if James Henry's father was really his father ? I suppose its possible he took on the child when marrying his wife and re-registered him as his own - is that possible ?
I am also wondering why, as I have read in a previous answer on here, that James Henry's 'father' returned back to Birmingham after he was demobbed - you would think he would want to see his new born son and 'girlfriend' and head straight up to Liverpool wouldn't you ? and if Edith was expecting him back why would she not register him with the name 'Brogan' and not her own name ?
It seems to me that either she was not expecting to marry the childs father or he wasn't the father - any opinions please ? as I said I'm new to this so may be getting it all wrong.
thank you
 
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That did happen but that early they didn't usually bother re-registering and if it was the case I would expect the first birth to have to have been registered under either his mother's name or the name of his 'father'.

As both births are registered Brogan/Hale and no alternate with the first, I'd say he was a Brogan.
 
MWS said:
That did happen but that early they didn't usually bother re-registering and if it was the case I would expect the first birth to have to have been registered under either his mother's name or the name of his 'father'.

As both births are registered Brogan/Hale and no alternate with the first, I'd say he was a Brogan.
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Thank you
 
MWS said:
That did happen but that early they didn't usually bother re-registering and if it was the case I would expect the first birth to have to have been registered under either his mother's name or the name of his 'father'.

As both births are registered Brogan/Hale and no alternate with the first, I'd say he was a Brogan.
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I agree it usually occurs when the first birth is in mmn only. I think it is unusual to be able to see both entries at the GRO. The only way to know for sure is buy both records but buying certs can get expensive. I suspect here was a registration, the marriage and then the second registration. Unusual.
 
Wean Brogan said:
I am also wondering why, as I have read in a previous answer on here, that James Henry's 'father' returned back to Birmingham after he was demobbed - you would think he would want to see his new born son and 'girlfriend' and head straight up to Liverpool wouldn't you ? and if Edith was expecting him back why would she not register him with the name 'Brogan' and not her own name ?
It seems to me that either she was not expecting to marry the childs father or he wasn't the father - any opinions please ? as I said I'm new to this so may be getting it all wrong.
thank you
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When I said he returned back to Bham after he was demobbed I meant that after he'd been to Liverpool and married. He may have tried to settle there and couldn't or maybe they always intended to live in Bham as a married couple.

There was probably a couple of years between him being demobbed and the 1921 census and, with no records in between, we can only speculate the whys and whens. Which is all part of the fun.
 
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The words "occasional copy A" indicate some change/correction was made. It is often a surname but might be something else.
As I said the only way to know is by obtaining the certificates.
 
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pjmburns said:
I agree it usually occurs when the first birth is in mmn only. I think it is unusual to be able to see both entries at the GRO. The only way to know for sure is buy both records but buying certs can get expensive. I suspect here was a registration, the marriage and then the second registration. Unusual.
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Thanks again - yes I know, I've just had to pay £14 for a copy of my own birth certificate for a volunteer position I've applied for !
 
MWS said:
When I said he returned back to Bham after he was demobbed I meant that after he'd been to Liverpool and married. He may have tried to settle there and couldn't or maybe they always intended to live in Bham as a married couple.

There was probably a couple of years between him being demobbed and the 1921 census and, with no records in between, we can only speculate the whys and whens. Which is all part of the fun.
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Thank you
 
Wean Brogan said:
Thanks again - yes I know, I've just had to pay £14 for a copy of my own birth certificate for a volunteer position I've applied for !
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For some birth or death reg where all you need is the info you can buy pdf copies for £7 (instead of £11). It doesn't include marriage certs though.
The pdf option applies to James birth records. You do need to search closely to find that option. You then are able to get a e-version to download.
 
pjmburns said:
For some birth or death reg where all you need is the info you can buy pdf copies for £7 (instead of £11). It doesn't include marriage certs though.
The pdf option applies to James birth records. You do need to search closely to find that option. You then are able to get a e-version to download.
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oh I wish I knew that before parting with my money ! thank you anyway, I will use that option for other records.
I am also thinking that the only way to really know who the father is, is to find out if James (Ediths husband) was in fact in Liverpool or indeed the country in August 1916 - which is when James Henry would have had to be conceived for an April birth, he may have been fighting abroad. Which records will I have to check to find this out ? military ? I have found out there was an army barracks/training centre in Liverpool at that time - Seaforth Barracks (Liverpool regiment)
Thank you
 
Wean Brogan said:
oh I wish I knew that before parting with my money ! thank you anyway, I will use that option for other records.
I am also thinking that the only way to really know who the father is, is to find out if James (Ediths husband) was in fact in Liverpool or indeed the country in August 1916 - which is when James Henry would have had to be conceived for an April birth, he may have been fighting abroad. Which records will I have to check to find this out ? military ? I have found out there was an army barracks/training centre in Liverpool at that time.
Thank you
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A pdf is no use for proof of identity so you would have needed a full version.
A lot of ww1 military files no longer exist - they were destroyed in ww2 raids. So that could be tricky. If he was injured he could gave been back in this country by 1916.
 
You can only assume that what you think is correct is correct unless you find a reason for it not to be. Nothing so far would make me think that James Brogan wasn't James Henry's father.

Comparing the Y-chromosome DNA of a male descendant of James Henry to a male descendant of his brother would (almost) prove it but that's a bit extreme.
 
Wean Brogan said:
I guess its the fact that the birth was registered twice is confusing me.
Thank you for your reply.
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I am sure that is just to do with the marriage taking place after the birth. As I said before the only way you would know is buy the certs.
I agree with MWS I think James is the father.
 
Sorry for backtracking but can you tell me DOB of James Brogan (husband of Edith Maud Hale) please ? I've checked back but can't find it, thanks.
 
Do you know where James Brogan (husband of Edith Hale) served in the war ? which regiment or area of the country he was based ? if he was in the war of course ? Thank you
 
Unfortunately, as mentioned his service records don't seem to have survived. His brother Daniel was in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment and there is a Medal Roll Index Card for a James Brogan also in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment, no. 203754.

As it's not a very common name in the area I'd be inclined to belief it is him, however apart from listing the medals he was entitled to it gives no further information.

As he appears to have been entitled to only the Victory and British medal I think that would imply that he didn't join (enlisted or conscripted) until after 1915. Or at least didn't see action.

And looking at Daniel's MRIC he had the same entitlement, so sadly (and not uncommon) that would seem to mean that he spent less than 2 months at the front before he was killed.
 
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MWS said:
Unfortunately, as mentioned his service records don't seem to have survived. His brother Daniel was in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment and there is a Medal Roll Index Card for a James Brogan also in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment, no. 203754.

As it's not a very common name in the area I'd be inclined to belief it is him, however apart from listing the medals he was entitled to it gives no further information.

As he appears to have been entitled to only the Victory and British medal I think that would imply that he didn't join (enlisted or conscripted) until after 1915. Or at least didn't see action.

And looking at Daniel's MRIC he had the same entitlement, so sadly (and not uncommon) that would seem to mean that he spent less than 2 months at the front before he was killed.
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Thank you
 
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