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Bridge Street/holliday Street Old House

Nice to see you trespassing again Lyn, lol.
I would think the building's an office relating to the canal, but I've no idea why it's still standing if it's not Listed.
Love a good mystery me!
 
Nice to see you trespassing again Lyn, lol.
I would think the building's an office relating to the canal, but I've no idea why it's still standing if it's not Listed.
Love a good mystery me!

hi charlie..well ive not trespassed for some time now so thought i would see if i was still up to it lol.. i agree with you about the building being used in some way relating to the canal as its so close to it but as to what specifically ive no idea...to be honest i think maybe a trip to the library is needed...maybe they can shed some light...

lyn
 
Thanks Mike for you hard work in transposing the maps. Looks like Wharf Street is out then But "Worcester Wharf" still looks like a runner.

Well what can I say Lyn? Great photos from our agent on the ground! It's clear that the wall totally encloses the sides and rear of the building and that there was a yard area of some sort in front of the terrace. There's no particular evidence of gardens at the front. And yes, the remnants of the gate fittings look heavy duty. The outbuilding in the rear garden/yard (a very thin area) looks like it was for coal - there's an access point in the wall at the front of the building.

The windows look to me to be early/mid victorian, and very modest. One pot is missing on the end chimney. Although you can see evidence on the end wall nearest the canal that a ground level room was attached, the lack of symmetry and the missing chimney pot means it must have originally had an upstairs section at one time.

Will be having a good look at your photos again Lyn, but that's first impressions. Something else occurred to me seeing the closeness to Gas St and the access to it, is there were once stables on gas street for the canal horses - think the Opposite Lock was one - so this terrace is well placed for organising such things for canal workers.

Will enjoy having a good nose around your pics with a glass of something this evening. You have one too Lyn, you've earned it. Cheers! Viv.
 
I can only make out the words "Private Property" on the yellow notice Lyn. I wonder if it was bought some time ago with a view to redevelopment?
Then the market collapsed.
I still think it's connected to the canal in some way; offices? workshop? repairing "things" (men are good at that). Maybe a call to Carl Chinn before we're all suffering from sleep deprivation!
 
forgot to say viv i also thought that this was a point for delivery of coal...if we are right i worked from its position that the coal would have landed in that outhouse as its in line with it///


hello vanessa to be honest i did look at that padlock but thought better of it lol..

lyn..

BUILDING BRIDGE ST OCT 2013 009.JPGBUILDING BRIDGE ST OCT 2013 005.JPG
 
I can only make out the words "Private Property" on the yellow notice Lyn. I wonder if it was bought some time ago with a view to redevelopment?
Then the market collapsed.
I still think it's connected to the canal in some way; offices? workshop? repairing "things" (men are good at that). Maybe a call to Carl Chinn before we're all suffering from sleep deprivation!

charlie my pic 10 the yellow private property sign is just to say that if you dont live in those new flatty things you will be wheel clamped and the yellow sign to the left on the fence is a danger sign as there is an electricity sub station behind it...twas at this point i decided to go no further lol...

ps already had a word with carl and so far he can shed no further light on the building...
 
Lyn's photos of the walls around the terrace are interesting. The aqueduct wall must be the same date as the aqueduct, 1870. Interestingly the canal wall stops at a curving point up beside the canal (in front of the Hotel on the pic, just behind the coal 'ole). Almost like there was once an entrance or canal access up there. The wall enclosing the cottage yard/garden is in a totally different style. It looks older but may not be, it's certainly in a less well preserved condition than the canal wall. Wonder if this was added before or after the building of the aqueduct? Whenever it was built the cottage wall looks like similar brick to the cottages themselves and the 'coal 'ole' in the garden.

Sorry Lyn, I've put red arrows over your photo. Viv.
 

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Lyn,

You didn't try lifting that coal bunker lid then? Is doesn't appear to be locked. I'm sure our urban explorer friends would have been in their like a rat up a drainpipe!

Maurice
 
A couple of features on the back wall of the terrace facing onto Holliday Street. There are batons on the left edge of the building which look like the pieces of wood on to which you'd attach a hoarding/advertising board. Was also wondering what that piece of iron is sticking out of the wall to the right? Viv.
 

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Lyn,

You didn't try lifting that coal bunker lid then? Is doesn't appear to be locked. I'm sure our urban explorer friends would have been in their like a rat up a drainpipe!

Maurice

hello maurice the coal bunker cover was wedged tight into the wall...possable to get round the back by getting over the broken wall in pic 7 but it was so overgrown and would i imagine have had many creepy crawlies lurking lol and it was a tipping ground for all sorts of rubbish...doubt if i had risked it i would have got a better look at anything apart from the out house...

viv you can scribble all over my pics if it helps ha ha..

lyn
 
viv if i remember correctly the batons are metal...possably to strenghen the building at some point...ive just noticed that metal pipe coming out of the wall at the top in this pic i took...sorry this pic is a tad on the dark side..

BUILDING BRIDGE ST OCT 2013 010.JPG
 
CAST IRON 001.JPGkicked up a piece of broken cast iron that was just under the suface outside the building...its only about 2 and half inches long by 1 and half high..amazing how heavy it is but its got some letters on it..ive cleaned it up a bit..no idea how it can help us as it could have come from anywhere nearby but here it is...looks like the letters are RADEB..but it looks like there is more of a space between the letter E and B so could the B be the start of the word BROS...





lyn
 
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Grade B most likely, but it could have come from anywhere, possibly dropped off a truck during demolition of properties in the locality, or even off a barge.

Maurice
 
viv and maurice could be GRADE B...guess we will never know but i found it interesting as it must be quite old to be made of cast iron...its all plastic nowadays...
 
Finding this fascinating because my Gt and Gt Gt Grandparents were living in Holiday Street in 1871 but i can't seem to see much housing on the maps that have been posted unless i've overlooked them:rolleyes:
 
Finding this fascinating because my Gt and Gt Gt Grandparents were living in Holiday Street in 1871 but i can't seem to see much housing on the maps that have been posted unless i've overlooked them:rolleyes:

hi brumgum its a great thread isnt it and i dont know why but i had a thought that there may not have been many houses in holiday st..do you have the number where your rellies lived as mike maybe able to post you a map pinpointing the house..

lyn
 
hi brumgum its a great thread isnt it and i dont know why but i had a thought that there may not have been many houses in holiday st..do you have the number where your rellies lived as mike maybe able to post you a map pinpointing the house..

lyn
No but ancestors were John Maney born 1835 Limerick and James Maney born 1861 Birmingham, just checked but i haven't got the number just Hoilday Street 1871.:emmersed:
 
Very faded original, but it looks to me like 3 House, 13 Court.

Maurice
Thank's for looking Maurice, i remember when i researched this some time ago many of the other houses in the street were not inhabited and it all sounded a little dire:emptiness::sorrow:
 
Brumgum

When you got up the other end of Holliday St by Granville St it was all back to back housing and back courts. In fact 13 Court was at the rear of the junction with Granville St on what I think was the east side of Holliday St
 
I guess it was all a commercial area around there, Brumgum. Only 30+ years later my uncle was apprenticed as a coppersmith to a firm in Washington Street, not far away. It certainly wouldn't have been your posh bit of Edgbaston or Moseley.

Maurice
 
Brumgum

When you got up the other end of Holliday St by Granville St it was all back to back housing and back courts. In fact 13 Court was at the rear of the junction with Granville St on what I think was the east side of Holliday St
Thank's, that makes sense because they also lived in Tennant Street at one point, strange i always imagined it to be the end that's being discussed.
 
Having looked again and taken into account the newer information, may I hazard another guess? The maps & other views that we’ve seen from 1828 to 1847 show neither our building, the aqueduct nor Holliday Street. We’ve heard that the aqueduct was built in 1870 – may be some maps nearer this date would help confirm this. Then in later maps we have all the above three. Take a look at the attached 1902 map with our building marked in red. This is at the start of a road built across the aqueduct and ending near “Worcester Wharf” – also called Mr Smallwood’s Wharf on the 1839 map. So were the occupants of our building in charge of traffic going in and out of Worcester Wharf? This would help support the “Wharfinger” theory. Of course by the 1870s the railways would be bringing about the end of importance of the canals and Worcester Wharf was probably more related to the goods carried on the railway. By 1902 the Midland Railway had established a huge goods yard across the road on the land where the Mailbox now stands – see the map.

Bridge Street Map 1901 v2.jpg
Today that same road goes past our building, through a gate then across the aqueduct to two blocks of apartments Kings Court & Queens Court built between the roadway & the canal. Furthermore it’s called Bridge Street.
Well done Lyn with the photos and trespassing – keep up the good work & keep out of trouble!
Can I just expand on my “blind backs” theory? They may have still been building back-to-back houses in the early 1870s (Chamberlain banned them in 1876), but on that basis the outbuilding may have been a wash-house (brewhouse) & privies. This type of house could still have been built at this time.
The metal bands on the south west corner probably are holding the corner of the building together as the ground in that corner would have become unstable due to cutting Holiday Street to go under the canal. Is the metal pipe sticking out of the wall the vent pipe for a toilet soil pipe fitted inside the property at a later date? I’ll take a closer look soon.
 
Brumgum
Actually you might have been right in your assumption, and Phil is correct in hia !!. There are two court 13s, one where phil says, but another close to the boatman's hall on the corner of Bridge St. the maps below show this. This is not completely unique, and usually happened where a road was extended to cover the houses and courts in another road. Both the courts usually retained their old numbers (probably because the court number was inscribed in stone or brick somewhere on the court). Holliday st was, as i stated earlier, close to where Holliday st later ran, but did not run exactly over it. The court near the junction with Bridge st would presumably hav ebeen court 13 of wharf St.

map_c_1889_holliday_st_by_junc__Bridge_St.jpg


map_c_1889_holiday_st_by_junc__Granville_st.jpg
 
i find this thread very intresting as my ggrandmother lived at no 36 holiday street in 1890 and my grandmother was born at no 115 tennent street while her sister was born in holiday street
would like to know where about in holiday street they lived if it was the top or bottom
josie
 
Josie
Holliday st seems to be making a lot of complicated searches. In this case between 1890 and 1892 the street was renumbered. For information I have put both numbers on the map, 1890 in red, 1892 in blue. the house was close to the Granville/holliday st junction

map_c_1889_Holliday_st_showing_no_36_in_1890_28201_in_189229.jpg
 
Having looked again and taken into account the newer information, may I hazard another guess? The maps & other views that we’ve seen from 1828 to 1847 show neither our building, the aqueduct nor Holliday Street. We’ve heard that the aqueduct was built in 1870 – may be some maps nearer this date would help confirm this. Then in later maps we have all the above three. Take a look at the attached 1902 map with our building marked in red. This is at the start of a road built across the aqueduct and ending near “Worcester Wharf” – also called Mr Smallwood’s Wharf on the 1839 map. So were the occupants of our building in charge of traffic going in and out of Worcester Wharf? This would help support the “Wharfinger” theory. Of course by the 1870s the railways would be bringing about the end of importance of the canals and Worcester Wharf was probably more related to the goods carried on the railway. By 1902 the Midland Railway had established a huge goods yard across the road on the land where the Mailbox now stands – see the map.

View attachment 89597
Today that same road goes past our building, through a gate then across the aqueduct to two blocks of apartments Kings Court & Queens Court built between the roadway & the canal. Furthermore it’s called Bridge Street.
Well done Lyn with the photos and trespassing – keep up the good work & keep out of trouble!
Can I just expand on my “blind backs” theory? They may have still been building back-to-back houses in the early 1870s (Chamberlain banned them in 1876), but on that basis the outbuilding may have been a wash-house (brewhouse) & privies. This type of house could still have been built at this time.
The metal bands on the south west corner probably are holding the corner of the building together as the ground in that corner would have become unstable due to cutting Holiday Street to go under the canal. Is the metal pipe sticking out of the wall the vent pipe for a toilet soil pipe fitted inside the property at a later date? I’ll take a closer look soon.

hi outercirclebus...very good points you make and all quite possible...this building is certainly giving us all something to mull over and debate...i guessed what the metal bands were used for but that pipe sticking out of the wall is a mystery...
oh and should i go on a wonder again i will try to keep out of trouble lol

lyn
 
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