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Brewmaster House off Broad St

Is this the one on Heritage Gateway (out of date listing though) 7, ST PETER'S PLACE B1

ST PETER'S PLACE
1.
5104 City Centre B1
No 7
SP 0686 NW 32/22 29.3.78
II
2.
Circa 1800 house. Brick, hipped slate roof with deep flat eaves. Two storeys;
3 bays widely spaced. Central panelled door with fanlight flanked by Tuscan
columns supporting a broken pediment and 2 windows with hoods on brackets.
First floor with 3 similar though narrower windows. All windows boarded up.



Listing NGR: SP0606486756
Click to expand...
 
Charlie
It certainly was not the brewhouse. The brewery was immediately behind the Crown. Ithe Brewmasters house (in red)was to the north west of this , just below the Malthouse, as shown on this 1889 map

CrownbreweryMalthousebrewmastershousemapc1889.jpg
 
Charlie. Afraid I don't know the Crown but looking again at the info we have so far we have mixed dates which make me question the history of the Brewmaster's House:

B'ham Conservation plaque says the house was built c.1805
Pevsner seems to say the Brewmaster's House was built 1815
The Brewery was built 1814

This is pure speculation, but I wonder if Pevsners refers to when the house became the Brewmaster's House, rather than when it was actually built. Then maybe before it was known as the Brewmaster's House, it was a small brewery as well as domestic residence, perhaps the predecessor to the 1814 purpose-built Brewery. But like I say ........ all speculation, and simply based on the fact that there are conflicting building
dates for the house. Viv :confused2:
 
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The Brewmasters House seems to be associated with the Malthouse in the time of the Crown, but at one time (certainly c 1839 see map in red) it was associated with the Birmingham Brewery, being the brewery offices. . When exactly yhe Brewmasters house was built I do not know, but the Union Brewery (later to become the birmingham Brewery), was apparently built in 1807 . It closed as a brewery in 1882. Other than the map, this information is from Birmingham Breweries by McKenna

brewmastershousec1839.jpg
 
Here's the link on British Listed Building's (same text as Heritage Gateway) 7, Birmingham

Description: 7

Grade: II
Date Listed: 29 March 1978
English Heritage Building ID: 217575

OS Grid Reference: SP0606486756
OS Grid Coordinates: 406064, 286756
Latitude/Longitude: 52.4787, -1.9121

Location: King Edwards Road, Birmingham B3 3AG

Locality: Birmingham
Local Authority:
County: West Midlands
Country: England
Postcode: B3 3AG
Click to expand...
 
Well that's good news Mike. It's clear there was a purpose-built brewery (Union) in 1807. Looking at your maps this looks like a pretty big commercial operation. So likely the house was the Brewmaster's House from around that time. Maybe Pevsner's date is either an error (dare I even suggest that !) or maybe the date relates to the time the brewery (and house?) changed hands to become the Birmingham Brewery. A mystery ...... thanks for helping Mike. Viv.
 
Viv
It was certainly a sizeable building for the time. didn't put this on before, as it only (possibly) shows the edge of a wall of the Brewmasters house, but is the Birminmgahm Brewery in 1815. At that time the horses were apaprently stabled in the wing of the factory between the mainn building and the Bewmasters hosue, a part that has since been demolished
Mike

BirminghamBreweryA1815.jpg
 
Its great to see an old picture with the Brewmasters in situ, Mike. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for finding the listing, Ell. Brewmasters certainly has a variety of addresses. Odd that the dates differ, Viv, but it often happens. In this situation I always trust Andy Foster as default, but you raise an interesting issue in suggesting that the history may be more involved.
 
Some things say St. Peter's Place. British Listed Buildings has King Edwards Road.

Although St. Peter's Place doesn't exist anymore.

This address comes up for A C Selection

International Convention Centre Brewmaster House, Birmingham, B1 2EA
 
Yes, Ell, I automatically glossed over the St Peters Place listing because buildings etc there were demolished. I do often have difficulty in tracing canalside listings because of the uncertainty of the road name allocated.
 
mikejee said:
Viv
It was certainly a sizeable building for the time. didn't put this on before, as it only (possibly) shows the edge of a wall of the Brewmasters house, but is the Birminmgahm Brewery in 1815. At that time the horses were apaprently stabled in the wing of the factory between the mainn building and the Bewmasters hosue, a part that has since been demolished
Mike
Click to expand...

This is a wonderful drawing Mike. Fantastic detail of how the site would have looked. I think you're right about the edge of the house being just in view on the left edge of the drawing. The cart house, mentioned in Pevsner is just along from that, and possibly shorter (in line with Pevsner's mention of a later extension to this). This all ties in with photo #2 in Ell's post 19 and Dave's post 21 photo# 4. Also the buildings drop down on the left of the drawing - the land slopes away on our modern photos. All looks pretty certain to me.

A couple of observations. There's a horse just disappearing from view on the lower left of the drawing and another poking out of the building (stables ?) a little further along. All possibly confirming stables and cart house along the left-hand side. But might be completely wrong about that.

Now all we need is an expert/enthusiast to tell what each building was for. I'm assuming the buildings with the pointy things on top (!) are some sort of ventilation for storing malt etc. But beyond that I have no suggestions for what went on in these buildings, well except make beer of course! :grin2:

Viv.
 
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Viv
Regarding your comments on the "pointy things", these do resemble the things on the top of oast houses (used for drying hops), which I gather were to allow the exit of warm air from the kiln. Malting involves germination in the dark of the damp barley, followed by drying. I think it is significant that the windows of that side of the block (but not the bit with the clocktower) appear to have the windows covered in planks, presumably to stop light getting in. So it is probable that this aprt was used for malting
 
Yes Mike, I think I might have seen something on oast houses along the same lines. So if I understand this, you think those 2 buildings (the one joining the cart house and the one attached to the clock tower) are probably for malting. I assume there's another step in the process after this, and so perhaps this was the purpose of the buildings on the right side of the drawing. (Apologies but know very little about brewing! ). I notice there are a few barrels lined up against the wall on the right side. Viv.
 
thats a cracking pic mike..hard to think it once looked like that...hi viv its a pity you dont live closer to brum as you could have joined us on the brewery tour..:D

lyn
 
Would have loved to Lyn, especially as I could see pints of mild in the brewery tour pics...... delish. :taste:taste. And with all those organic ingredients, positively health food. Oh well maybe another time. Viv.
 
Viv
I am guessing a bit, but, yes. The barley is allowed to germinate, then heated to stop the gewrmination at the right place, when the right amount of starch has been converted to sugars, and also to give a more handleable product by drying. Then the malt is mashed with water in big vessels to extract the sugars and other components and the extract with any other components (ie perhaps hops) then fermented . I agree the right hand building wouldprobably be the fermentation hall (as it would now be called.
 
Another drawing this one is of the house itself to compliment Mike drawing of the factory, I have made a separate inclusion of the text that was with the drawing. I have also included a photo of the house itself in what was sometime probably in the 60's and a photo up St Peter Place showing the house in relation to Broad Street then.

(sorry I was not able to reinstate the text as I no longer have it)

Phil

5ba9b109.jpg


5a114b0c.jpg


4cd04b2b.jpg
 
Its a delight to see the Brewmaster's House in context, Phil. I had not thought to look amongst St Peters Place pictures so thats a good contribution. Thank you.
 
I agree with you BordsleyExile seeing Phil's pictures together puts it more into context and I now understand better where it actually was.
 
mikejee said:
Viv
I am guessing a bit, but, yes. The barley is allowed to germinate, then heated to stop the gewrmination at the right place, when the right amount of starch has been converted to sugars, and also to give a more handleable product by drying. Then the malt is mashed with water in big vessels to extract the sugars and other components and the extract with any other components (ie perhaps hops) then fermented . I agree the right hand building wouldprobably be the fermentation hall (as it would now be called.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike I'm starting to get a good picture of what went on there now. Phil's pictures are also a good addition. The drawing gives us a fuller impression of the frontage, complete with gateway and walls. I think I remember the shop that was just about to become an antiques shop in Phil's last picture. In fact I'm sure I bought a few items of furniture from there. Didn't realise that the Brewmaster's Hse was behind it.

A bit more info to add.

Francis White's "History & General Directory" 1849 lists a Brewer in St Peter's Place as Johnson, Howell, Rooks, Coopers & Grigg.

Charles Pye's "Description of Modern Birmingham" 1818 mentions there being 3 public breweries in B'ham, one of these "is near Broad Street, conducted by a public company"

Finally, Showell's Directory claims in describing Birmingham's public breweries, that a company opened an extensive establishment at St. Peter's Place, in Broad Street in 1817.

Finding this all very interesting. Viv.
 
This photo from the Keith Berry site shows the Brewmaster's House with the side wall still in tact. It doesn't give a date but expect it's around 1970. https://www.pbase.com/beppuu/image/35029683

There's another photo on the site which is just listed as a building in St. Peter's Square, but it looks (possibly) one that might be associated with the Brewery, but not 100 % sure on that one.
https://www.pbase.com/beppuu/image/60381033

Viv.
 
Thank you for the extra information, Viv. Its much appreciated. I am not convinced that that photo by Keith Berry is of the Brewmaster's House, but I'll take a closer look tomorrow. Yes, Wendy, I had been thrown by the new buildings distorting the layout of the area so Phil's pictures help a lot.
 
hi ell and yes i would agreet with you that keith berrys first pic is of the brewmasters house...the canal would be behind the wall on the left...

lyn
 
It looks to me that the wall on the canal side was once higher than it is now. And in Keith Berry's first photo post 56 there was another door to the right of the bottom right window. You can detect an impression or repair to the right of the bottom right window in Ell's photo 2 in post 19 and an impression orrepair to the edge of the house wall next to the canal wall in Ell's photo #1 in post 58.

My first thought on the second Keith Berry photo was that it's not connected with the brewery, but then I started to wonder if this was a view from another side of the brewery i.e. the other side of the malt house, a view which we haven't seen in any of the drawings. But then I thought (with those shutters on the windows) it might be another malt house in St. Peter's Place. Talk about ''round the houses' So we may never know! :confused: Viv.
 
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