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Birmingham Town Hall

I have two more views of the Town Hall here which I don't think have appeared on here before. The first shows a cab stand outside the Town Hall c. 1907. The second shows a statue of a seated gentleman. Must be early 1900s. Any ideas who the gentleman is? Where was he moved to? And are there underground toilets to the right in the photo? I do like these little details. Viv.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1361705478.502751.jpg c. 1907 Town Hall with cab stand
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1361705509.571539.jpg Town Hall with seated statue in Chamberlain Square
 
I find that what is around the edges of the pictures of the T.H. and other notable buildings over time; is more interesting than the subject matter. We occasionally get glimpses of other things. The first picture in post #168 is taken from Paradise St. and shows the cabbies shelter and cabs lined up. There is another fine photograph of the same place somewhere..posted by someone. The second photo is of the back end of the Town Hall I think and yes there would be lav's there but you would have to enter the old and great Central Library through the portico...to be lavished with a marble convenience...I seem to remember. I don't seem to remember a conveience outside but...a long time ago. The sitting chap is also a quandry. I wonder what place all of the marble is gracing now.
 
The last painting in post #167 has been here before, showing a somewhat rare viewing of the buildings on the south side of Paradise St. in the time prior to the building of the Council House when Alldins ? was still there on the corner of Ann/Congreve. Front left are the railings of Christ Church I think.
 
Took me a while to get the position of this Paul Braddon watercolour. It seems to have been painted from the back end of the Town Hall in Chamberlain Square and must be a view pre-Art Gallery etc. I'm assuming Christ Church is the church. Paul Braddon's paintings aren't necessarily contemporary as they sometimes depict scenes of a time before he was born (1864 - unless he'd acquired the talent and was practising as a babe in arms!). It suggests to me a hankering for the good old days. But as we alll know, they weren't necessarily that good at times, and I expect some of these buildings would have fallen down if they hadn't been taken down.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1361721655.007826.jpg

Would be good to find out who the seated gent was in Chamberlain Sq. Ell's suggestion of Attwood rings a bell but I' not sure if I'm confusing it with the Attwood statue that was moved from Stephenson Place. That was a standing Attwood. More research needed. Viv.
 
There's this photo from the book Central Birmingham Through Time

Chamberlain Square through time.jpg

The book says that the Victorians liked clutter (well loads of buildings and statues).
 
I have seen that view before but not as nice a painting as that. That fence was everywhere and in front of the old buildings, that were demolished before the Town Hall was built...there was a drop down to the road surface. Subsequent building must have levelled the land down perhaps.
 
Yes Rupert I seem to remember there was some levelling of the surface but can't remember where I read it.

Ell, the first photo in the book extract you've posted has our sitting gent just in view behind Priestley (?). As this is very close to Mason's College, I wonder if the sitting statue is of Josiah Mason. Although I can find no reference to it anywhere. Viv.
 
I know that the statue under the canopy is George Dawson. Below Dawson was John Skirrow Wright.
Wikipedia says that the Wright and Priestley statues were moved from Victoria Square (Council House Square) after Edward VII died (in 1910). It doesn't say who the sitting statue was though.
 
You know Viv, you maybe right.

Have a read of this Sir Josiah Mason (1795-1881)

This bust was cast by William Bloye in 1952 from Williamson's original full-sized seated statue of Mason in marble, of 1885. The statue has a complicated history. In 1869 the Council decided to commemorate the foundation of Mason Orphanage with a portrait statue of Mason.(1) The sculptor E.G. Papworth was originally given the commission but the scheme was not approved by Mason, who declined to sit, and the project was forgotten until his death in June 1881.(2) It was resumed by the Council on 3rd August 1881, although payment was not to be from the rates but from subscriptions which had already raised £775. In January 1884, the Sir Josiah Mason Memorial Committee, headed by Dr Heslop, informed the Public Works Department that Williamson was to be entrusted with the project and suggested that a vacant pedestal in Ratcliffe Place (now Chamberlain Square) opposite Mason College, would be the most appropriate setting for the finished work.(3) The statue, claimed to be an 'exceedingly faithful' likeness in face and figure, was unveiled in its prescribed place on 1st October 1885 by Sir John Lubbock MP.(4) It was of 'colossal proportion, [representing Mason] seated and in a characteristic attitude, holding in his right hand a pen with which he is about to sign the Trust Deed of the Mason College. The chair in which the figure is seated is Gothic treated in a sculpturesque manner. On the back are the arms of Mason College and underneath are scrolls representing the plans of the College.'(5) On 6th October 1885, the statue was accepted by the Corporation and placed in the care of the Public Works Department.(6) It eventually fell into a poor state of repair and was removed in 1951, the bust being preserved.(7) The Birmingham Civic Society, in conjunction with the Erdington Historical Society, suggested to the Public Works Department that the bust be cast in bronze and placed near the Mason Orphanage.(8) This was approved and Bloye executed the work for £222-8-0,8 which was placed in position in 1952 and the original statue then destroyed.(9) Sir Josiah Mason (1795-1920) was a wealthy local industrialist renowned for his philanthropy. He devoted much of his fortune to charity and founded the Mason Orphanage at Erdington (1860-1868) and the Mason Science College, Edmund Street (1875-1880), later incorporated into Birmingham University and demolished in 1965.
Click to expand...
 
They made a mistake in the year of Mason's death! 1920 - they mean 1881. Mason did not live to 125 but to 85 or 86.

From that it sounds like the Williamson statue was made in 1885. But destroyed in 1952 when Bloye's bust was commissioned to replace it.
 
That's very convincing Ell. A good find! They mention carving on the back of the chair which you can see clearly in the first picture below. Difficult to tell if he has a pen in his right hand but just about
looks like he might on a close-up of the book extract. I'm convinced it's him. Such a pity the original was scrapped. I expect the bronze bust must be the one that's on a roundabout I think in north Birmingham. Viv.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1361730246.272440.jpg
 
These two pics from the 8th Jan 2013
 

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Thanks both. I thought I could see an enormous beard on the Chamberlain Square seated statue. Funny how Birmingham seems to happily relocate its statues. I know the ones close to the Town Hall have been moved around, added to or even subtracted from. Bit like a chess game!

The Town Hall at night is a good artistic subject. (I think Wendy posted a lovely modern view earlier on this thread). This is an older view with cabs patiently waiting for fares and the rain adding plenty of surface reflection. It's from a Tuck oilette postcard. Viv.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1361735057.910943.jpg

Apologies to Phil, noticed he posted this view on an earlier post on this thread.
 
The bust is at the junction of Orphanage Road, but what the name of the other road is, I cannot remember offhand. I used to see it every day in 1954 - my school was temporarily housed in Josiah Mason's Orphanage.
 
That seems sensible, the coach used to take us up the Chester Road, - it was 1954 and I was only seven. We had to walk through what I can only describe as an undercroft - a bit of a dark tunnel, to the back of the building. Exciting times for a little child.
 
I've found an engraving from Bridgemans of the cabmen's shelter shown in the first Town Hall picture in post #168. It's called The Birmingham Cabmen's Shelter which appeared in the 'British Worker' 1873 (it also appeared in an edition of the more modern day 'Look and Learn'). These things seem to be on little wheels, so I assume they were moved around. Viv.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1361919323.435815.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1361919332.618661.jpg
 
The shelter seems virtually identical to the first london shelter in 1875.

first_london_cabmans_shelter.jpg
 
I wonder what was inside these shelters..looks like a stove...maybe a tea urn. Wonder if any survived. Outside the Midland Institute and Central library would be a good place to pick up fares.
 
This drawing from 'Look and Learn' gives an idea of the interior. It's not of the Birmingham shelter interior but it's dated 1875 and perhaps similar. Looks quite spacious. Viv.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1361956631.644994.jpg
 
Great picture Viv it looks just like the sort of cafe's the taxi drivers would sit in in the 60's.
 
Thats really fasinating folks - a round of applause for the sherlock work there.
I pass the Mason bust every day on the small roundabout you mentioned.
The bust is frequently dolled up in different garb (which is great) by someone, and I think one of you guys devoted a thread or post to it as I remember somewhere else around Christmas time. Many Thanks for the info.
 
If the George Dawson statue ended up in storage at Dollman Street, why was the Josiah Mason statue destroyed in the early '50s?



This one used to be in Chamberlain Square (or Chamberlain Place as it was once called), and was under a canopy to the right of the Chamberlain Memorial.

There's also this bust of Dawson in Dollman Street



Wonder if either of these will be restored to the city centre, or some other roundabout in the city?
 
Behind the statue is the main mill shaft of the California Watermill Bartley Green. A wooden speed-up gear with wooden teeth by the look of it. Still in remarkable shape.
 
I do wish these statues would stay put! Losing track now of who was where around the Town Hall and, like Ell says, what was the reasoning for some of the moves? I think I saw somewher that the Mason (seated) statue was badly dsintegrating, so it had to go. And a bronze bust was made.

Now here's another statue that's popped up at the rear of the Town Hall. It's in almost the same place as Mr Mason, perhaps a little nearer the fountain. But who is he? Photo looks about 1950s/60s. Viv.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1361985515.173685.jpg
 
Hi Viv: Here is a link to the story about how the statue in Chamberlain Square eventually became just the bust of Josiah Mason. https://www.pmsa.org.uk/pmsa-database/5978/ Not sure about the full size statue that Elbrown mentioned. Sadly, Mr. George Noszlopy the author of several books on city sculpture including Birmingham
died a couple of years ago but there might be a mention of the full size statue in one of his books.
 
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