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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

Some time ago there were posts about Nathaniel Ogle and his steam carriage, in particular a visit he made to Mr Rothschild in which a passenger was a Mr Babbage. I therefore contacted Sydney Padua who draws the comic strips Lovelace and Babbage and this was her reply:

Hello David

Really sorry to be so long in replying!

Of course the first thing I did was do a google books search for
'Nathaniel Ogle' and 'Babbage'- what came up, fabulously, was the list
of people saved from a shipwreck in 1800--

https://books.google.com/books?id=UjsDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA301&dq=Nathaniel+Ogle+babbage&hl=en&ei=n2G4TP2NB4THswa0mvG4DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Nathaniel%20Ogle%20babbage&f=false

-- which is pretty cool but I'm almost certain had nothing to do with
your Ogle and his steam Carriage! That would seem to be this guy
(bankrupt! poor fellow), listed as a 'steam carriage builder-

https://books.google.com/books?id=w_cuAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA152&dq=Nathaniel+Ogle+steam+car&hl=en&ei=i2G4TOqwJ82Uswb9nZjQDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Nathaniel%20Ogle%20steam%20car&f=false

(though of course it's possible 'shipwreck survivor' is one of his
accomplishments!)

I can tell you Babbage was a near neighbour, as the address give for
Ogle is Portland Place, Babbage in the 1820s-1850s was on Devonshire
st just around the corner. And you can bet if there was a steam
carriage maker around he would have befriended him!


Sorry again for delayed reply!

Sydney
 
David, I admire your enterprise in following this up with the multi-talented Ms Padua (I hope you got her autograph! ;)). I will look at those links with great interest.
 
I don't think the links supplied by Sydney Padua reveal anything new about Ogle and Babbage. We were aware of a "naval" Ogle, and had already discovered Nathaniel Ogle's bankruptcy. Ms Padua's observation that Ogle and Babage were near neighbours is indeed evidence that Babbage was a passenger on Ogle's steam carriage. I wish we could also establish that Ada Lovelace was one of the "ladies" on board that day, but I wouldn't want to shatter the illusion! ;)
 
Did anyone see the TV news pictures of the nuclear sub which ran aground off the Isle of Skye last week? Did you see the clouds of steam coming from it? Steam still lives even in a nuclear sub but what happens to it under water?
 
Steam fires underwater jet engine

19:00 29 January 2003 by Ben Crystall

"A revolutionary new steam engine, described by its inventors as "an underwater jet engine", may soon be powering dinghies and speedboats more efficiently, cleanly and safely than a conventional outboard motor.

The Pursuit Marine Drive produces thrust by using the energy from high-pressure steam to draw in water through an intake at the front and expel it at high speed through the rear. The steam emerges at high speed from a rearward-facing ring-shaped nozzle into a cone-shaped chamber, where it mixes with the water (see graphic). Shock waves created as the steam condenses are focused by the chamber to blast water out of the back.

The drive was invented by Australian engineer Alan Burns and developed in Britain by engineers at Pursuit Dynamics in Royston, Hertfordshire. Last week, New Scientist witnessed a version just 20 centimetres long develop around 30 horsepower (22 kilowatts) in a test tank, enough to power a speedboat. But the company says it can be scaled up to about 300 horsepower."

Well that's one answer...and from an Aussi inventor too dammit. At least The Thylacine might be pleased with something today....
 
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For those who did not see the TV News then see picture on front cover of this week's Private Eye or for those who live in faraway places have a look at the private-eye.co.uk website when that is updated in a day or twos time
 
DavidGrain said:
Steam still lives even in a nuclear sub but what happens to it under water?
Click to expand...

The same as used to happen to it when used in steam tram engines, and when underground trains were steam hauled - it is condensed back into water and re-used. The only difference now is that the heat source for turning the water into steam doesn't have a noxious gas exhaust (smoke). But like any other chemical reaction energy source, there is an end product - smoke soot and cinders in olden days, spent nuclear fuel today. No gain without pain!
 
Well it's heart-warming to see some activity in the old BSB classroom. Thanks, gentlemen - very interesting: the underwater steam bus! I'll check out that Private Eye link, David. It might raise a smile on the Thylacine's dial ...
 
Attached below is an interesting picture (from the f1-info.cz website) of a De Dion Bouton steam carriage somewhere between Birmingham and Coventry in 1897. Any additional information about the vehicle, the location or the occasion would be welcome.

[The site contains many other pictures.]
 
I think it may be the Coventry to Birmingham race that was run under the auspices of the Motor Car Club in early May 1897 from the Coventry Reform Club to the banquet in The Grand Hotel Birmingham. The (more) conventional Coventry-made Pennington, driven by Mr Pennington, beat the steamy Frenchman hands-down by all accounts. The cyclists also discovered the vacuuum drag effect in following the cars.

Not sure what the Motor Car Club was or how long it lasted as the AA was not formed until 1905, but this race appears to have been the inaugural meeting...

It is recorded by:

* Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland), Friday, May 7, 1897
* Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland), Monday, May 17, 1897
 
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Pennington 1896-1896

Misconceived mechanical inspiration was a commonplace in the early, ex-ploratory days of the motor-car, and the Pennington is chosen here as an example, since no other device of such monstrous inefficiency was persisted with so tenaciously. Edward Joel Pen-nington of Chicago was a highly plaus-ible company promoter of considerable vision and limited mechanical talent. A company he organized in Racine, Wisconsin in 1895 claimed to make cars using the Kane-Pennington Hot Air Engine, Kane being the Chicago busi-nessman who financed it. The cylinders were plain steel tubes, for Pennington's engine was supposed to cool itself by heat dissipation from the cylinder walls. There was no carburettor. Gasoline was fed direct into the induction pipe from the fuel tank by a valve: a form of fuel injection. The air and liquid gasoline mixture, drawn into the cylinder, was alleged to be first vaporized and then ignited by another Pennington peculiar-ity: the 'long-mingling spark'. This was allegedly provided by a heated wire spiral inside the cylinder. Though ingenious, Pennington's engines were very crude, with their exposed motion and tentative lubrication. Finally, Pen-nington did not believe in road springs, relying on pneumatic tyres of large section instead. Pennington's ideas worked badly, but just well enough to have his work published in respectable technical journals in an age of ignor¬ance, and just well enough to support his gift of the gab. Four Penningtons were entered in the Chicago Times-Herald Race of 1895, but did not start.

In 1896 Pennington went to Britain to promote his ideas. H. J. Lawson, busily attempting to gain control of the nascent British motor industry, bought his patents and established him in the Humber factory in Coventry to make his cars. The strange tricycle illustrated was one of the few vehicles that emerged. Even stranger is the fact that it still survives in complete form, in the Montagu Motor Museum at Beaulieu. Later Pennington machines had con-ventionally water-jacketed cylinders and normal ignition arrangements, but this did not save them. In 1899 Pen¬nington floated the Anglo-American Rapid Vehicle Company, a grandiose operation designed to take over some 200 patents and all existing British and American car designs. It collapsed, and its instigator fell into obscurity.
 
Aidan said:
...

Not sure what the Motor Car Club was or how long it lasted as the AA was not formed until 1905, but this race appears to have been the inaugural meeting...
...
Click to expand...

Ah, I think it was the original car club that morphed into the RAC under the fraudster Harry/Henry John Lawson, the founder of Daimler in Coventry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_John_Lawson It seems quite complicated so may be better as a separate thread if anyone wanted to pick up the reins from here (not I...)
 
Thanks, everyone, for your contributions in response to the Coventry-Birmingham picture. (Just like old times! ;)). The Dublin Freeman's Journal articles are a great find, Aidan: it's ironic that we obtain our information on this important early motor car (and bicycle) race from an Irish newspaper!

We are of course interpreting the word "bus" fairly generously here, but are surely closer to topic than airships and submarines! The term "wagonette" used to describe the De Dion Bouton steamer is also a reminder of the earliest Birmingham Motor Express Co Ltd passenger vehicles.

The Pennington is a new one for me. Very interesting, especially the Lawson and Coventry connections.

The cyclist's account of the race is priceless!
 
[As is my wont, I have transcribed the cyclist's account (slightly edited) of the 1897 Motor Car Club Coventry-Birmingham run.]

Freeman's Journal (Dublin) 11 May 1897.

MOTOR CARS.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE FREEMAN'S JOURNAL.
11 May 1897.

Dear Sir — As one of the very few cyclists who attempted to keep the pace made by the two fastest motor cars in the Motor Car Club run from Coventry to Birmingham last Wednesday [5 May 1897], and as the only one who succeeded in doing so throughout up to Yardley, where the cars stopped to wait for the slower ones to come up, to parade into Birmingham, I venture to send, as being perhaps interesting to your readers, a short account of the splendid running made by the Pennington Car and the de Dion steam wagonette. The latter, I have been told, won the Marseilles-Nice race this spring, and was consequently expected to teach English manufacturers a severe lesson; as a matter of fact, I'm glad to say that in my opinion the tuition came from an English — and moreover, a Coventry — made machine. Certain it is, that in climbing the many hills along the route the Pennington Car on at least three occasions took the hills when some distance behind the steam driven motor, and deliberately passed the same going up, and arrived at the summits first. However, I will narrate the facts simply as I saw them occur, and being at no time more than two yards behind one or the other of the cars, nothing could have escaped my attention; and further, being a racing champion, I can assure your readers the speed was not imaginative, but at times must have exceeded thirty-five miles an hour.

A general start being made at the Reform Club, Coventry, shortly after 2.30 pm, the cars proceeded in procession, the de Dion Steamer leading the Pennington about tenth in line, to the city boundary, from which point single file was no longer necessary and a fast speed immediately ensued. The de Dion steam wagonette bearing an ensign with "pilot car" thereon had thus far fulfilled its offices, but at Cullicoate [?] hill the Pennington Car took up this position.

The leaders took the three successive hills in the following manner — The steamer descending the hills at a more rapid rate, and the Pennington ascending more quickly, so that they consecutively passed and re-passed each other. The Pennington Car, without seeming to make any special effort, at Allesley was again ahead.

After leaving Allesley the pace grew very hot and several other cars made spurts past to the front near Meriden hill, and at Stonebridge, where an official stop was made, 7½ miles from Coventry, the arrivals were in the following order — 1st, de Dion Wagonette; 2nd Pennington Car; 3rd, No 5 Daimler.

After a wait of half an hour, which enabled the less speedy cars to arrive, another start was made; but, as before, the Pennington and the de Dion carriages immediately went to the front, the others following their hardest. The two leading cars now passed and re-passed each other, until on the long stiff hill rising from "The Wagon and Horses" the Pennington Car astonished everyone by running clean away from the de Dion Steamer at the very steepest part of the gradient. From the summit of this hill to the end of the course — "The Swan", Yardley — there is a mile and a half of level road, and along this the two vehicles made a final burst of speed; the Pennington, however, continued to increase the advantage, and ultimately came to the post at the end of the run on the outskirts of Birmingham, from where the autocars congregated and paraded the city.

In closing I would state that my object in following this run to Birmingham was to ascertain if motor cars were suitable for pace-making purposes. The result of my investigation was in every way satisfactory, for I found that the Pennington Motor — using oil and not emitting any perceptible smell or smoke so as to affect the breathing powers — was in every way available for such a purpose.

I also made a discovery which will be of great value in future road records, that is, the assistance received from the vacuum created by the autocar, which seemed, as it were, to draw me on, or otherwise I could not have kept up. — Yours faithfully,

(Signed), F W Allard.
 
Thylacine, thanks for your IM and your very interesting thread.

I must say that I can't recall the name Allard but there seems to be quite a lot of info on him; in Dutch! The 18th of September 1886 is recorded as a red letter day in the history of the Dutch Cycling Federation because F.W. Allard was the first Brit to take part in a Dutch public cycle race and this was on a tricycle!

There is quite a bit on him in Dutch and when I have time I'll read through it all (I can read speak & write Dutch) and let you know if I find any interesting details.

Searching through other cycling archives it seems that there quite a few, foreign, cyclists with the name Allard, strange name for a foreigner maybe they're related.

Graham.
 
Blimey, now that's a coincidence Cadeau. I was at York Railway Museum a few months back, and a M.Allard has a girt big train named after him! He must have been quite a quick cyclist. Is this a record?
 
Thanks for joining us, Graham! Anything further you can discover about F W Allard will be most welcome.

And while you're here, you may care to look at the video clip on Ferdinand Verbiest linked to in post #1121 at the top of this page. I referred there (in hope) to your language skills. If you can give us at least the gist of the narration we will be very grateful.

Peter.
 
Not that The Thylacine likes to brag about these things (chorus: "OH YES HE DOES!"), but after our recent flurry of activity, the venerable BSB steamer has powered itself out of the "gravel trap" and is steaming energetically "onwards and upwards" once again. We have just pulled alongside the equally venerable "Midland Red at Digbeth" thread (tips top hat to the Motorman) and are just in number three spot on the BHF Buses "Views" chart. Well done, Steamgoons! :cool:
 
Aidan said:
I used to love Private Eye. This copy's Headmaster's Message is great and not a little reminiscent of Molesworth's Almer Mater
Click to expand...

Go to the back of the class and write out 50 times "Alma Mater". What would Mr Proctor at GD have said.
(By the way, Aiden, my sister, also ex GD, yesterday drew my attention to two threads about George Dixon's on the Forum. Am going to read through them and see what I can contribute)
 
DavidGrain said:
Go to the back of the class and write out 50 times "Alma Mater". What would Mr Proctor at GD have said.
Click to expand...


Back in my days at GD, Mr Hannay was the Latin master - I may have mentioned him before, imagine a cross between Charlie Drake and Will Hay, complete with schoolmaster's gown - but with an easily flared temper. Episodes like:
"What does 'omnibus' mean, boy?"
"It means I don't have to get soaking wet walking to school, Sir!"
would raise a wry smile, a stern frown, or a clip round the ear from him.

I think I remember Mr Proctor - but managed to avoid lessons with him.

DavidGrain said:
(By the way, Aiden, my sister, also ex GD, yesterday drew my attention to two threads about George Dixon's on the Forum. Am going to read through them and see what I can contribute)
Click to expand...
Strange your sister's name being Aiden, it's the same as a chap on here.
 
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