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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

Nice bit of map work - Immer mit dampf (think we need a special salute now...) - that's a challenging journey even today.
 
Yes, "immer mit dampf", but don't mention the war. It's well past my bedtime, so "bonne nuit, messieurs!" zzz
 
motorman-mike said:
Whilst on the look out for more steamy Seck's stamps, I'm sorry, I'll rephrase that, whilst on the look out for more steam related stamps by Herr Seck I came across these two characters whom I shall name Herr Von Thylacine and Herr Von Molesworth. They sum up nicely what this thread is all about even giving it a motto.
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Deer Grabber luk wot you started now..you beestly stick insect.


Yur ever luving Basil Fotherington-Thomas
 
Not wishing to be pedantic (chiz chiz) but I think the bridge at Tarlogie across the Dornoch Firth wasn't there in the 1860s, so the longer route would have been taken via Kincardine, Ardgay (which wasn't to see the coming of the railway for about 14 years) and Bonar Bridge.
Also, from Loch of Wester I expect the main road was still the coast road via Nybster, now the A99, making the journey through John O'Groats rather than in and back.
Good work, though, and a journey I'd think hard before making even in a modern vehicle today.
 
Welcome to the Steam Zone young Fotherington-Thomas, but do steady on dear chap, much as we enjoy a good wheeze we are treading on thin ice if we stray too far from the paths of the steam machines. Not only that Molesworth gets the vapeurs when gurls pictures appear on the thread.
Prefect and Ink Monitor appointed by Sir.
 
Dennis Williams said:
Yur ever luving Basil Fotherington-Thomas
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Dennis - as I'm sure you've always been a man, right, then I deduce it is sweet you are bringing your smaller female relatives up in the ways of Molesworth - good stuff. Enough said otherwise my ankle bracelet starts ringing...

Now I must light my hookah and pore over maps of the Outer Hebrides to stay up with this thread.

With over 1000 posts (someone mentioned index...) and 10000 views, lets all blow tschüßes at Motorman...
 
Welcome, Fotherington-Thomas, to the BSB classroom (and for reminding us that it is one). Find a comfortable bench and make yourself at school. Yardley lad, eh? The Thylacine in a former life resided in a semi-detached at 74 Duncroft Road and went to Cockshutt Hill Junior School (which explains a lot :036:).
 
Lloyd said:
Not wishing to be pedantic (chiz chiz) ... the longer route would have been taken via Kincardine, Ardgay ... and Bonar Bridge ... from Loch of Wester I expect the main road was still the coast road via Nybster ... making the journey through John O'Groats rather than in and back ...
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"Pedantic" is commendable in the BSB class, Penfold! I've revised the Route of the "Rickett" in accordance with your first valid point. Which brings us up to 147 miles, much closer to the quoted 150. I'm having trouble with your second point, though. Feel free to revise the route and re-post. We must get it right.

Another point. There were four people on the journey: his Lordship, his good Lady, our friend Thomas "Bumpy" Rickett, and the mysterious Reverend W Ross (as insurance perhaps). The question is, who was stoker? Or did they take it in turns? (The ILN article makes it sound like his Lordship played the steersman, but this might just be ILN currying favour with the upper crust. ;))
 
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Need you ask which was stoker? Do you not remember the famous duo of vicar and bishop (ably played by George Relph and Godfrey Tearle) in The Titfield Thunderbolt?
A man on the footplate wearing a dog collar is so British, so Right!
 
Steamer Sinclair.

[Nice one, Penfold! ;)]

James Sinclair (1821-1881) became the 14th Earl of Caithness in 24 December 1855 when his father died. He had married Louisa Georgiana Philips (1827-1870) on 17 July 1847. Their "seat" was Barrogill Castle, which was purchased by the late Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother in 1952 and renamed back to the original "Castle of Mey".

James Sinclair was a Fellow of the Royal Society, and author of Lectures on Popular and Scientific Subjects (Second Enlarged Edition; London: Trübner & Co, 1879), which is wrongly ascribed by Project Gutenberg to John Sutherland Sinclair. As Wikipedia informs us: "One of his most unexpected inventions was an artificial leg, with which he won a prize at the French Exhibition in Paris in 1866".

At the time of the momentous Inverness - Barrogill journey in 1860, the Earl of Caithness was about 38 years old, the Countess 33 and Thomas Rickett about 34. Picture [1] below purports to be a photograph of the Sinclairs and Rickett, and could well have been taken during the 1860 journey. The steersman looks to be past his 30s and may be the good but mysterious Reverend Ross, who was probably of the Scottish Kirk and so perhaps didn't wear the "dog collar". I'm open to suggestions as to who's who (no points for identifying the Countess! :rolleyes:).

Also pictured are: [2] James Sinclair (1870s by Frederick Sargent, courtesy of Wikipedia); [3] the Caithness coat of arms (Wikipedia); [4] the Caithness "device" with griffin supporters and "cock proper" crest (courtesy of The Scots Peerage, which incidentally gives James Sinclair's date of birth as 16 December 1821: everyone else says 16 August); [5] the fine Barrogill Castle (courtesy of the Castle of Mey website).
 
And your pub quiz question of the year is...which member of our happy throng here at the BHF appears (fleetingly) as an extra in said film? I cannot say more - sworn to secrecy. (No,it's not me!)

The Titfield Thunderbolt has developed a cult following since it was made (loosely based on the first fledgling railway preservation line in the world, the Tallylyn Railway at Towyn on the North Wales coast) and tours of the filming locations on a coach resembling Pearce & Crump's Beford OB are regularly undertaken, the junction station of the now long gone branch line where it was filmed is restored as a transport bookshop, and there are also websites here and here telling the full story about and behind the film.
 
As someone who in the past has studied Heraldry, we could have formed a Heraldry Society at school if there had been a few more of us. The arms of Sinclair Earl of Caithness immediately attacted my attention. The crinkley border round the edges of each of the four quarters indicated to me a mark of cadency, or a younger family line. Now Scottish Heraldry is much different from English Hearaldry so I had to look this up.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Differencing_en.svg. If I read this right this means that in each of the four quarters we are dealing with the second son of the second son, an unbelievable coincidence considering that the Earl of Cathness is Chief of Clan Sinclair. Also why are the 2nd and 3rd quarters (Scotland differenced) the same. I would expect the 2nd and 3rd quarters to be same only if the 1st and 4th were the same.
Sorry I have gone off topic and will retire to the back of the room and shut up.
 
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Very interesting, David. And not off topic at all. "Steamer Sinclair" owned a Rickett steam carriage, and Rickett later lived and worked in Birmingham. We're on thick ice here, surely!

[Sadly we're all a little paranoid these days: it must be down to the newly-installed CCTV cameras. :rolleyes:]
 
Whilst technically off-topic, your introduction to us of Heraldry is intersting in its own right, and as often before on this website I have learned something I never knew before.
Thank you David, and please return to the floor of the discussion - 'off topic' items often lead to new areas of education, as well as being the sort of light relief without which studying history would denigrate to reading lists of boring facts.
 
[Here is a description of the Caithness arms etc from The Scottish Peerage linked to above.]

Arms. — Not recorded in Lyon Register, and variously given in different MSS. The following blazon is given in the Peers Arms (Lyon Office MS): — Quarterly, 1st, azure a lymphad at anchor, sails furled and oars erect in saltire, within a double tressure flory counterflory or, for Orkney; 2nd and 3rd, or, a lion rampant gules for Spar; 4th, azure, a ship under sail or, for Caithness; over all a cross engrailed and counterchanged argent and sable, for Sinclair.

Crest. — A cock proper.

Supporters. — Two griffins proper armed and beaked or.

Motto. — Commit thy work to God.

[No mention of the crinkly borders. James Sinclair was the first son of a second son, but that may not be relevant if the arms date from well before his time. It's all a bit Gaelic to me, but fascinating.]
 
Lloyd said:
Whilst technically off-topic, your introduction to us of Heraldry is intersting in its own right, and as often before on this website I have learned something I never knew before.
Thank you David, and please return to the floor of the discussion - 'off topic' items often lead to new areas of education, as well as being the sort of light relief without which studying history would denigrate to reading lists of boring facts.
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In the spirit of plagiarism I get all my best ideas here :tongue2: Google Scholar https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=learning+with+humour&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart has many references to the importance of humour & learning
 
Mr Summers Has a Bad Day.

John Bull (London, Monday 16 August 1830).

The following account of a steam journey does not hold out much prospect of success: —

Wednesday morning [11 August 1830], at half-past seven o'clock, Messrs Doyle and Summers, the engineers, started a new invented steam-carriage from their manufactory in Cannon-row, Whitechapel, with the intention of proceeding to Southampton. The body of the vehicle is similar to that of a phaeton, and contained seven persons in the body and two in the dickey, by which the carriage is steered. They proceeded along the City and New-roads, into the Edgeware-road, at the rate of between 15 and 16 miles an hour, when, in turning the corner of Edgeware-road into the Uxbridge-road, where the road is extremely rough, the carriage rolled from side to side, from the velocity with which it was propelled, so that every person expected to be instantly dashed to the ground. The vehicle proceeded about three hundred yards along the Uxbridge-road, as far as Hyde Park-terrace, when it was discovered that the water was running out of the boiler and cistern; a fresh supply of water was procured from the gentlemen's houses in the terrace, but no sooner was the cistern filled than it was empty again. An inspection into the machinery immediately took place, when it was discovered that one of the large pipes had burst. They immediately set to work repairing it, and after an hour and 20 minutes' delay they had so far repaired the damage as to proceed on their journey at half past nine o'clock to Southampton, the pipes leaking considerably. They proceeded down Bayswater-hill with tremendous velocity, and the persons steering kept the centre of the road extremely well, until in endeavouring to pass through Bayswater turnpike-gate the vehicle was not quite clear of it, and one of the wheels came with tremendous violence in contact with the large iron hinges of the gate; and such was the force, that it carried the gate from off them nearly 30 feet. From the violent collision, the whole of the machinery became deranged; and after another considerable delay in repairing damages, they again proceeded on their journey to Southampton, but the injury the works had received were so great, that when they had reached Turnham-green it was discovered to be impossible to proceed any further, and in the evening the vehicle was removed to London to be repaired.
 
Mr Squires Pays a Surprise Visit to the Downes Family.

Bell's Life in London and Sporting Chronicle (London, Sunday 22 July 1832).

Accident by a Steam-Carriage. — Tuesday morning [17 July 1832], about half-past six o'clock, a steam-coach, which had been brought out by Mr John Squires, engineer, of Wharf-road, Paddington, was making one of its experimental runs, when, in turning the corner of the Harrow-road into Dudley-grove, being at the time proceeding at the rate of ten miles an hour, the steersman inadvertently gave a wrong direction to the machine, whereby it was turned from its course, and ran with great force, first against a garden-railings in front of the house No 19 there, occupied by a Mr Joseph Downes, and then against the house itself, striking the brick-work by the side of the ground-floor windows; the crash was tremendous, and in an instant afterwards the whole of the front of the building was obscured by a dense cloud of dust, which, on clearing away, showed the extent of damage that had been done. The garden railings were torn from the stone-work, and twisted in a very curious manner, while the brick-work on one side of the parlour windows was knocked into the room to the extent of 10 feet high by 12 feet in width. The whole of the window-sash, frame, and the underneath wood-work altogether, was forced to the opposite side of the room, and, what is most extraordinary, not one of the panes of glass was even cracked. In this room Mr Downes, his wife, and infant child were lying asleep in bed, and most providentially escaped sustaining any injury whatever, although the greater portion of the brick-work fell within two inches of the bedstead. Six persons, besides the steersman, were on the vehicle at the time, and, with the exception of the latter, who received a slight contusion in the face, they all escaped unhurt!
 
Mr Ogle Goes to the Races.

The Age (London, Sunday 21 June 1835).

On Thursday [18 June 1835] Mr N Ogle, accompanied by the Hon Capt Percival, Mr Talbot, Mr and Mrs Burdett, Mr Margary, &c, actually went to Ascot races in Mr Ogle's steam-carriage, and returned without the slightest accident. The rate of travelling exceeded that of any vehicle on the road; and, considering the deep and sandy hills at Sunning Wells, it may be deemed a very extraordinary performance. Near Egham his Majesty [King William IV] approached the vehicle, which was immediately stopped, the valves all held down, and every one standing uncovered. His Majesty graciously condescended to acknowledge the respectful attention, and the postilions slackened the speed of the horses to permit his Majesty to have a more distinct view of the striking and efficient vehicle. Mr Ogle is certainly the first man who ever attended Ascot in his own steam-carriage.
 
[Re -post #1056]

Is this the first report of a vehicle in "Unroadworthy Condition"? Events like this where the operators were obviously not in full control of their invention are doubtless what hindered public and official acceptance of mechanical transport. Did they ever venture out with it again?
 
With over 1000 posts (someone mentioned index...) and 10000 views, lets all blow tschüßes at Motorman...[/QUOTE]

I don't mind Birmingham made Acme Thunderers but not too sure about those Molesworth:dft005:
 
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