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Birmingham buses

Radiorails said:
Post 1287 showing AEC 504 bus OP 208 (fleet no. 179) was new in 1926. It was not long lived being withdrawn in 1935. It is shown operating route 7 Perry Common to Portland Road. The return service showed Perry Common 5. That lasted until 1939 when an extension to Court Lane was numbered 5A, with short working still as 5. In 1964 the full route became 5.
A reminder that none of my posts give any details after the BCT became part of WMPTE. I have no interest in the PTE and few archives about it.
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It is interesting that once the buses moved away from their individual owners and became part of major groups etc, at the same time they lost not only their own identity but also that of their manufacturer, nowadays you can probably tell who the bodymaker is but you have no idea whose engine is powering the bus, not a badge anywhere. The buses are in fancy colours all swoops and patterns and now even no one corporate colour within an area as towns colour their buses for specific routes. First are trying to give some local identity to its vehicles, but whilst the buses of yesteryear looked workmanlike and elegant (even Wolverhampton's poorly kept fleet and Walsall's mixed assortment) they carried the City's/Town's crest or in the case of Midland Red one colour (OK I remember the different coloured roofs) and the name writ bold and a fleet number that could be seen. The buses themselves became square tin boxes so further individuality was lost as the buses used by Devon General, looked the same as those used by Western national and those used by the cities looked the same as those used by the country operators at their worse when they were the National Bus Company. As for Birmingham's pink trams!!!!!
Bob
 
Actually I quite like the pink trams but perhaps it is just because they are much better than the older trams that used to run on the Midland Metro. The old trams were due to be sold by auction last Monday but I have not heard anything about the results of the sale.
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/operations/metro-line-one/t69-tram-e-auction/

However I agree with Bob about how much more interesting it was to see the different liveries as you visited different towns. There was never a standard livery for the BET bus companies (including the Midland Red) unlike the Tilling bus companies which were usually green.
 
Radiorails said:
Post 1287 showing AEC 504 bus OP 208 (fleet no. 179) was new in 1926. It was not long lived being withdrawn in 1935.
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Nine years was a fair life for a city bus back then, more so because the advances in design made a few years later when the AEC Regent arrived in the fleet with such advances as enclosed stairs to the upper deck. Also by the mid 1930s diesel powered buses were coming in, with a fuel consumption nearly double that of the petrols, and with less need for maintenance too. Many buses of 1928/9 were completely outdated within two years. Normal bus life was only 12 years by the late 40s, but the need to keep them running during the war and in the post war shortages saw lives being extended. Some of the last rear-loaders were over 20 years old when withdrawn by the WMPTE.
 
The driver of this bus might have misjudged fuel consumption ...
Five_ways_bus.jpg

from https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/for...our-old-street-pics.41947/page-72#post-545376
 
Lloyd said:
Its an engineer, come from nearby Tennant Street garage, to refuel buses en route. Legal then, but a big no-no today, even with diesels.
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OM, Lloyd & Radiorails
All these pictures bring up my favourite subject 'elfnsafety', spare a thought for those champions of virtue employed by both local authorities and the HSE and how many prohibitions etc would be brought in if this picture were transported to today with the same bus and the same situation, not to mention the civil enforcement officer (parking) because he is on the wrong side of the road and the union because the driver is in the open. It is a wonder that we all got here without the constraints that are now applied to everyday life. Nowadays a health and safety expert would probably earn a masters degree for 'Study the picture below carefully and then write a thesis of not more than 5000 words on what is wrong here and how it should be corrected'. However once again an excellent picture, sharp in black and white and although the bus is covered in adverts it still looks smart and not like an escapee from a Jackson Pollock exhibition.
Bob
 
In the thread quoted by Old Mohawk (where this photo originally was posted) there was a suggestion that it was a Midland Red bus. From the photo it looks rather like one of the O 9913 - O 9929 batch, new in 1913 a Tilling Stevens which was owned by the Birmingham District & Power Co. but hired by Midland Red (B&MMO). However, the city took possession of these buses in 1914 when Midland Red operations in the city were transferred to them. There were modifications when they the corporation took over them and as fas as I can see many had visual changes over their lifetimes. They were withdrawn in 1924. The crest and used ticket box are clearly seen in the photo confirming it to be a BCT bus. That 'used ticket' box design lasted for a long while, it appears, I had not realized it had such long legs!
 
Radiorails said:
In the thread quoted by Old Mohawk (where this photo originally was posted) there was a suggestion that it was a Midland Red bus. From the photo it looks rather like one of the O 9913 - O 9929 batch, new in 1913 a Tilling Stevens which was owned by the Birmingham District & Power Co. but hired by Midland Red (B&MMO). However, the city took possession of these buses in 1914 when Midland Red operations in the city were transferred to them. There were modifications when they the corporation took over them and as fas as I can see many had visual changes over their lifetimes. They were withdrawn in 1924. The crest and used ticket box are clearly seen in the photo confirming it to be a BCT bus. That 'used ticket' box design lasted for a long while, it appears, I had not realized it had such long legs!
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I noticed how long that used ticket box must have been used and had the same thought
Bob
 
JOC 200 on the 29A route along Digbeth. The Bonser & Co Warehouse on the left but with another company's name on the doors. Nice looking building behind the bus ... pity we can't see more of it.
JOC200bus.jpg
 
Bus JOC 200 (2000) on the famous 29A cross city route from Hall Green to Pheasey Estate.
The bus was a Daimler, bodywork built at Saltley, which entered service around the beginning of 1950. It was the only BCT bus with a registration of JOC ; the others of the batch of 100 were HOV 931 - 999 and JOJ 1 - 30 which were ordered in 1947 ostensibly for replacement of the Moseley Road trams.
Bus 2000 apparently lasted until 1964.
 
Looks like the Bonser name carved in the stonework was a ‘ghost sign’ by the time the bus photo was taken. I’ve looked for a photo of the tudor style building but not found one yet.
 
OldMohawk, going off topic, have a look at the Digbeth thread #60 Stitcher's photo. I think this is the same tudor type building and where my 2x great grandfather Thomas Yapp lived. William Pratt a music printer was there previously. 82 Digbeth.
(I'm hopeless at posting links. Please move this post as needed)
rosie.
 
rosie said:
OldMohawk, going off topic, have a look at the Digbeth thread #60 Stitcher's photo. I think this is the same tudor type building and where my 2x great grandfather Thomas Yapp lived. William Pratt a music printer was there previously. 82 Digbeth.
(I'm hopeless at posting links. Please move this post as needed)
rosie.
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Thanks Rosie, I've just had a look. I wonder why the building had such nice tudor-like features ? The bus and tram pics often have interesting street scenes in the backgrounds.
oldmohawk ... :)
 
It's late afternoon and I suppose after a long day of collecting money and issuing tickets he just wanted to get away from the bus for a short break. The bus JOJ 183 is standing in Hamstead Village with the post office on the left. The high chimney behind is in the brickworks and out of shot on the right would be the Beaufort Arms.
JOJ183Hamstead.jpg
 
JOJ 183 (2183) was a Leyland PD2/1 entering service around early 1950 and withdrawn in 1968. The batch of 50, built by Park Royal. were similar in appearance to some of the London buses built at the time. It was one of the original fifteen which, as the photograph shows, had the front destination box set too high which was emphasized by the middle blue band being straight across the front rather than dipped either side of the box. Similar bus is housed, I believe, at the Transport Museum in Aldridge. The photo can, it seems, be dated between 1950 and 1954 when all Bell Punch ticket machines had been replaced by the 'Ultimate' ones.
* Bell Punch were still used by Elmdon Airport services until 1963.
 
An old bus has crashed on the No 9 Quinton route, no exact date but probably 1920s. Looks like it was quite a bump and maybe the man wearing leggings and looking at the camera was the unfortunate driver. The upper front windows seem to be smashed. The image is from a broken glass slide sellotaped together. I have edited out some of the tape.
OP230_Image1.jpg
 
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A great photo OM, one which I do not remember seeing before. OP 230 (201) was the last of a batch of ten buses built in 1927 by an unusual, for Birmingham, builder called Thompson based in Louth. Lincolnshire. It lasted until 1935 in service. It had the AEC 504 engine favoured by BCT at that time. They had open staircases at the rear and originally were fitted with solid tyres.
There are some interesting things in the photos. Quite some front damage which would have been repaired; the traction pole (that what it looks like to me) came off best! :eek: although there might be pavement damage and the pole looks like it might not be totally perpendicular which would mean some remedial work and possible delays to the trams - if they still ran at that location. I wonder is there is a newspaper report about this? It might give date and location and what caused the collision.
I never travelled on the 9 Quinton route, which commenced in 1919 incidentally, but the slip board says via Colmore Row to New Street. I have the feeling that this is before the 1933 one-way system was introduced. I would be interested in any other ideas.
 
Radiorails said:
A great photo OM, one which I do not remember seeing before. OP 230 (201) was the last of a batch of ten buses built in 1927 by an unusual, for Birmingham, builder called Thompson based in Louth. Lincolnshire. It lasted until 1935 in service. It had the AEC 504 engine favoured by BCT at that time. They had open staircases at the rear and originally were fitted with solid tyres.
There are some interesting things in the photos. Quite some front damage which would have been repaired; the traction pole (that what it looks like to me) came off best! :eek: although there might be pavement damage and the pole looks like it might not be totally perpendicular which would mean some remedial work and possible delays to the trams - if they still ran at that location. I wonder is there is a newspaper report about this? It might give date and location and what caused the collision.
I never travelled on the 9 Quinton route, which commenced in 1919 incidentally, but the slip board says via Colmore Row to New Street. I have the feeling that this is before the 1933 one-way system was introduced. I would be interested in any other ideas.
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I think the Hagley Road trams ran until 1930 but I don't have confirmation of this to hand at the moment.
 
The tram route "H", from Navigation Street to Hagley Road/Queens Road via Five ways commences in September 1913. In 1915 it becomes route 34. Originally buses by the company that eventually became the Midland Red. They were not a success. In February 1914 an experiment on this route to introduce 1st. class travel started using four cars, 581 - 584. The lower saloons were said to be "improved" having plusher seats and brown curtains. Double fares were charges, but ordinary passengers could ride on the upper deck. However by May it was deemed unsuccessful and the cars ran on normal services.
Confirming tthat David mentioned , in post 1312, the route did cease in 1930.
Bus routes 9 (1919), 6 (1926) and 5/7 (1927) were preferred to trams thus, combined with the costs with track renewal, gave the impetus to bus replacement in August 1930.
 
The number 34 continued as a bus route number at least into the 1960s as I used to catch it going to and from college at Gosta Green. The 34 ran from the City Centre via Holloway Head to Quinton. As it worked cross city with the 33 to Kingstanding it showed 34 only in the direction of Quinton and 33 back into the city along the Hagley Road.
 
I don't recall smoking permitted downstairs on double deck buses. Downstairs was permitted on single deckers but usually at the rear rows only. I have rarely travelled on buses since 1957 so things may have changed after that date, until the final ban on all areas was introduced.
 
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Thank you gentlemen. The reason I asked is that we went to the pictures on Tuesday to see 'The Guernsey Literary & Potato Peel Pie Society'. In one scene they are just getting off a London bus and a man was seen smoking downstairs. I vaguely remember men smoking on the platform but not in the seats.
 
On most buses built in the thirties forties,fifties and sixties the general rule was smoking upstairs on Decker and in the back few rows on single decks and I always believed, because my Dad told me and he was always right, that the reason that Birmingham buses had uncut moquette seats down stairs was for the comfort of ladies who mainly sat downstairs and because there was no smoking downstairs, the seats would not burn marks, which were easy to repair in the faux leather (Rexine?) Used up stairs. Also seats for smokers often had match strikers on the back of seats (i am sure that someone has one or a picture of one). I do remember on the 5a, there was regularly a guy a little the worse for wear who would get on at Witton and off at the Ring Enderby Road, he would sit downstairs attempt conversation with anyone he could during which he would light up and be reprimanded by the conductor/conductress, with even on occassion the driver having to stop the bus and come and add his five pennyworth. The problem was the guy could not get up the stairs and often had to get off the bus in a hurry for a call of nature.....happy days. Incidentally buses built by Eastern Counties Coachworks for the National group....Western and Southern National, United Counties st al, those sturdy Bristols had a 'stubbed on the back of the seats up stairs. We would smoke on the platform when we were ready to get off. The great thing with being out up town with your mates was leaving the bus as it turned from Snow Hill into Colmore Row like a stick of Paratroopers and yes still smoking. However remember upstairs on a full bus on a wet damp night with the fug of smoke and after Villa matches the aroma of Ansells or M & B emanating forth with the exhalation of the cigarette smoke. Happy days, now you ring the bell and wait until the bus stops struggle down those narrow bendy stairs and thank the driver. Why, he did not pay you to ride his bus, you paid him or a least the Rateoayers did.
Bob
 
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