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Bayley Charles William

My Great Grandad in 1911 Census gives his address as 25 let 2 Cheapside. Christopher Wood, Wife Harriet Wood, had 7 kids, I know where our Gray gets it from now. Was there a Brass factory around that area, jobs given are mainly in Brass Workings?.
 
UPDATE........I have been scrolling though wifes DNA matches (1000's) and have turned up a Martin and Leanne Dunhill. Sure Martin is Charles Williams younger brother John's Son and Leanne is Martins Daughter. So think your earlier detective work was correct and Charles William "connected" to the Dunhills. I know John reverted back to being a Dunhill but Charles never did. It doesnt prove the actual parentage of the pair though. I have sent a message to Leanne but she hasnt looked at Ancestry for months.
 
Have found out that Charles William and his 2nd Wife Alice were Cremated in Perry Barr Crematorium in 1971 and 1980 with ashes scattered there. Also in 1972 Charles Daughter Doris also had hers scattered.
Me and a few people who matched wifes DNA are still trying to work out the Fatherhood issue with Charles Willliam.
 
UPDATE......RE; 1901 Census.....still trying to place Gertrude Dunhill ( Mom) and Gertrude Dunhill ( Daughter) and Charles William Bayley in 1901 and have found one document for a Mary Ann Baldwin and a Gertrude Baldwin looks like lodging with a family in Farm St and they have the ages of the Mom and Daughter Dunhills.....Mary Ann was Gertrude senior's mother ( and also name of the householders wife ...lol) and I am convincing myself these 2 are Mom/Daughter I am after but still no Charles William ( or any other name of an 8 month old baby.

The Family is of Thomas Evans 355 Farm St.......which is not too far away from the Willes Road on CH Bayley's Birth Cert.
All this is my wanting to place people at places and no real eveidence....as yet.

If any of this is true I am making CH Bayley a Dunhill ha ha.

p.s. Also now know the Baldwin family changed their surname from Baldwing after Gertrude and her siblings were born.
 
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i cant find any gertrude dunhills in birmingham on the 1901 as yet....what years were they born keith

lyn
 
The Gertrude Baldwin with Mary Ann on 1901 census in Farm St is the grandaughter of Mary Ann. So I think this is correct and the younger Gertrude is living with her Grandmother.
Charles is possibly with Harry and Gertrude senior - somewhere...

Edit - see post #71
 
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Post #40 has Harry with the boys on the 1901 census. So we haven't got Charles with Gertrude (senior). Suspect this is all connectd to the 1900 court case.
Post #41 suggests she had deserted the family.
Surname Bayley used to avoid children being taken into care. Gertrude missing from 1901 (possibly not reg for fear of losing Charles.
 
pjmburns said:
The Gertrude Baldwin with Mary Ann on 1901 census in Farm St is the grandaughter of Mary Ann. So I think this is correct and the younger Gertrude is living with her Grandmother.
Charles is possibly with Harry and Gertrude senior - somewhere...
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Just realised I have misread the entry. The Gertrude listed is the grandaughter of Thomas and Mary Ann Evans. So the Mother of Gertrude is possibly Mary Ann. In which case I doubt this is the right people.
Unless - in another twist - Mary Ann Baldwin (mother of Gertrude the elder has married/or taken the name Evans).
 
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pjmburns said:
Just realised I have misread the entry. The Gertrude listed is the grandaughter of Thomas and Mary Ann Evans. So the Mother of Gertrude is possibly Mary Ann. In which case I doubt this is the right people.
Unless - in another twist - Mary Ann Baldwin (mother of Gertrude the elder has married/or taken the name Evans).
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yes jan thats is what confused me...gertrude is listed as grandaughter of thomas evans

lyn
 
Thanks everyone. I have recently been contacted by a Paul Weston whose GMother was Rose Baldwin who was Gertrudes youngest sister.She too had a checkered early life. Put into service at 14 and she got pregnant and fled to Derby to have a child and later joined by her boyfriend and they lived there for some years before returning to Ladywood via Walsall. All through this time Rose couldnt really get on with parents Mary Ann and Charles. Paul thinks maybe Rose didnt confide with them about the pregnancy and the rift never really healed.
Anyway I gave you all that background because Charles and Mary Ann lived most of their married lives in The Days Buildings-or Malthouse Cottages-which were next door to the Scott Arms on Newton Road so unlikely it was that Mary Ann with Gertrude at Farm Street. Gertrude doesnt feature a lot in Pauls section of their story and I think that Gertrudes goings on were probaby frowned upon by her parents as well.
I still need to find Charles William in early life to put lots together.
 
Astoness said:
yes jan thats is what confused me...gertrude is listed as grandaughter of thomas evans

lyn
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I have spent ages looking at the Evans connection and cannot find a thing.........I am sure this is all deception from Gertrude to go alongside the Bayley thing.
 
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Keith R said:
I have spent ages looking at the Evans connection and cannot find a thing.........I am sure this is all deception from Gertrude to go alongside the Bayley thing.
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The Gertrude Baldwin living on Farm St in 1901 is the daughter of a William John Baldwin and a Mary Ann Shore. Mary Ann Shore's mother also Mary Ann (nee Scott) Shore (a widow) married Thomas Evans (a widower) in 1899.

So although Mary Ann Baldwin is listed as a daughter of Thomas Evans she is actually a step daughter, as is Hannah (listed as Evans, should be Shore). Charles, John & Jessie are correctly listed as children of Thomas. Making Gertrude a step grand daughter of Thomas.

This Gertrude is listed with her aunt, the aforementioned Hannah (now Humphries).

Not sure if this makes her the correct Gertrude.
 
MWS said:
The Gertrude Baldwin living on Farm St in 1901 is the daughter of a William John Baldwin and a Mary Ann Shore. Mary Ann Shore's mother also Mary Ann (nee Scott) Shore (a widow) married Thomas Evans (a widower) in 1899.

So although Mary Ann Baldwin is listed as a daughter of Thomas Evans she is actually a step daughter, as is Hannah (listed as Evans, should be Shore). Charles, John & Jessie are correctly listed as children of Thomas. Making Gertrude a step grand daughter of Thomas.

This Gertrude is listed with her aunt, the aforementioned Hannah (now Humphries).

Not sure if this makes her the correct Gertrude.
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Well thanks for all that. Back to my drawing board again.I cant remember where or who but I have come upon Farm St before when searching but this family is a real hard one to pin down and are not that reliable with their information.
Thanks.
 
Did you work out who Charles Stephen Bayley was because there is a Charles Stephen Bayley b1862, a widower, listed on the 1901 census in Handsworth with his children and his occupation is stamper (press work).
 
MWS said:
Did you work out who Charles Stephen Bayley was because there is a Charles Stephen Bayley b1862, a widower, listed on the 1901 census in Handsworth with his children and his occupation is stamper (press work).
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Well not really....he is the one named by Gertrude as Charles Williams father...but says he is a Pro Cricketer. he had a son with same name and its through this son that my wife is getting DNA matches.....these people are also getting the Dunhill connections but no one can pin anyone down.The Dunhills living are discounting any connections and no longer look or answer to Ancestry messages.
 
Does anyone know how to access who lived in a street either in a census or voting.In Ancestry I put a street in Birmingham in 1901 census and no records showing.
 
In 1901 voting was limited so erolls may be of little use.
I use Kelly's to find names in the road then search for them on the census.
Find them and then change pages to "walk the street"
 
OK thanks but....haven't got Findmypast sub at the moment......put Kelly's in Google and no idea what to do and didn't get as far as walk the street....lol
 
MWS said:
You don't need a subscription to search. What street/who are you looking for?
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After many attempts with keywords it did give results in alphabetic order - no names I wanted to see but you cant view any of them without a sub. We had a sub in wifes name (trial) and could see certian results years after but now we cant and it wont even let up see ones we have viewed before or even the ones we bought.
 
pjmburns said:
I thought you were on Ancestry
- Kelly's is on there.
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Yes I have a world one on Ancestry and its not bringing up anything for 1901 in the road I want........
I know some Kelly's results come up on name searches but I have only seen businesses.
Just tried the road...Willes Road in the keywords etc and it brings up Kelly's results but just a mish mash of any word or date.
 
Looked through over 800 names on Findmypast on 1901 census and no names ring any bells....never knew you could do this.Loads more roads etc I can try now if it works on voting as well.
Was hoping for any names Gertrude was going by as its the road in 1900 she puts on sons birth cert.
 
The address on the birth cert is 96 Willes Road.
On 1901 census the family listed at 96 are:
Alfred Howard head aged 29 labourer
Elizabeth wife aged 24
John son aged 4
Emma daughter aged 1
Annie Crathorn s in law aged 16
 
Sometimes, even supposing that the information given is correct, you can read too much into it. There's no way of knowing why she gave birth there. She may have been living there for a short while but equally it could have been the house of a relative or a friend she was visiting, or even the house of a woman who helped women in give birth.
 
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