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BANNISTER, Mary and Martha
- Thread starter ChrisM
- Start date
MWS
from Bham
Maurice & Ida of Harborne Road were the parents of Stanley Myers...
en.wikipedia.org
Stanley Myers - Wikipedia
yes jan as the lozells road one gives her dob as 1870
I'm sorry that it looks as though I have led you off on another tangent by mention of my great aunt, Rose! (I just don't know why so many aspects of my most recent family history involve so much complication). In the morning, I'll explain, in summary, just how Rose Myers fits into things. And also how this single glimpse I have of her ?Harborne? Road home in my memory connects with the known facts I have and the further information you have just provided. My brother was able to see quite a bit of what was going on – and, thankfully, recorded what he remembered decades later – but I suspect that even he would have been astonished at some of the possible revelations and additions.
Thanks so much.
Chris
Thanks so much.
Chris
As promised, a brief note to explain where Sarah Rose Myers "Auntie Rose" fits into my family history picture. A timeline:
1832 -birth of Henry Myers (my great-grandfather)
ca 1850-1859 - Henry is in Gold Rush California
1860 - Henry marries Caroline (Carrie) Salmon.
1862 - their first child Eliza Rachel is born; later marries Charles Hinton; dies 1939.
1864 - their second child, Miriam Julia; unmarried, dies 1928.
1866 - their third, Charles Moss (my grandfather); later marries Martha Bannister (1874-1918); dies 1940.
1868 - their fourth and final, Sarah Rose; unmarried; dies 1944
1872 - Carrie dies, aged 33.
1873 - Henry marries Rose Benjamin, aged 39, of Bath Row, daughter of a deceased jeweller.
1874 - birth of their only child, Maurice; unmarried; dies 1933.
In very brief summary, the life of Henry's three unmarried children seems to have remained very much entwined.
Miriam Julia initially kept house for her father, Henry, and after his death for her unmarried sister and half-brother, presumably still at 2 Monmouth Street and in 1916 moving with them to 10, Wheeley's Road, Edgbaston. My brother recalled several visits there and watching Auntie Ju preparing the evening meal for Auntie Rose and Uncle Maurice (blinded in a firearms accident in New York many years previously and now continuing to work as a stenographer, with associations to the Blind Institute in Carpenter Road, Edgbaston) for when they returned home.
Also living in the house was a paying guest, Joseph Dudley who, it seems, held a senior position at the Austin Motor Company. He was part of the family for many years. Auntie Ju died in 1928, aged 64, after illness.
Rose Sarah was a secretary at Singleton and Cole, tobacco dealers (a company with other connections to my family via the Snooks and Toveys). The Electoral Register for 1933-1934 shows just the names of Rose and Joe Dudley, Maurice having by then met his fatal car accident on Mucklow Hill. "By the time of the 1934-1935 Register, the house was shown as unoccupied and Rose had moved to Harborne Road", according to my brother. My brother was in Italy when Rose died in May 1944 and so would have had no local recollection of that event. My father had the job of administering her estate and it was for that reason that I found myself one day with him in her apartment which, as I say, I FELT as though was only a short distance down the road from High Street, Harborne where Grandpa Tovey and Mrs. Black lived.
..... Which is where we came in, on this particular tangent .....
Chris
Images of ..... Julia Miriam (1924)
Rose Sarah (1920s)
Maurice (1920s - am unsure of accompanying lady and location)
1832 -birth of Henry Myers (my great-grandfather)
ca 1850-1859 - Henry is in Gold Rush California
1860 - Henry marries Caroline (Carrie) Salmon.
1862 - their first child Eliza Rachel is born; later marries Charles Hinton; dies 1939.
1864 - their second child, Miriam Julia; unmarried, dies 1928.
1866 - their third, Charles Moss (my grandfather); later marries Martha Bannister (1874-1918); dies 1940.
1868 - their fourth and final, Sarah Rose; unmarried; dies 1944
1872 - Carrie dies, aged 33.
1873 - Henry marries Rose Benjamin, aged 39, of Bath Row, daughter of a deceased jeweller.
1874 - birth of their only child, Maurice; unmarried; dies 1933.
In very brief summary, the life of Henry's three unmarried children seems to have remained very much entwined.
Miriam Julia initially kept house for her father, Henry, and after his death for her unmarried sister and half-brother, presumably still at 2 Monmouth Street and in 1916 moving with them to 10, Wheeley's Road, Edgbaston. My brother recalled several visits there and watching Auntie Ju preparing the evening meal for Auntie Rose and Uncle Maurice (blinded in a firearms accident in New York many years previously and now continuing to work as a stenographer, with associations to the Blind Institute in Carpenter Road, Edgbaston) for when they returned home.
Also living in the house was a paying guest, Joseph Dudley who, it seems, held a senior position at the Austin Motor Company. He was part of the family for many years. Auntie Ju died in 1928, aged 64, after illness.
Rose Sarah was a secretary at Singleton and Cole, tobacco dealers (a company with other connections to my family via the Snooks and Toveys). The Electoral Register for 1933-1934 shows just the names of Rose and Joe Dudley, Maurice having by then met his fatal car accident on Mucklow Hill. "By the time of the 1934-1935 Register, the house was shown as unoccupied and Rose had moved to Harborne Road", according to my brother. My brother was in Italy when Rose died in May 1944 and so would have had no local recollection of that event. My father had the job of administering her estate and it was for that reason that I found myself one day with him in her apartment which, as I say, I FELT as though was only a short distance down the road from High Street, Harborne where Grandpa Tovey and Mrs. Black lived.
..... Which is where we came in, on this particular tangent .....
Chris
Images of ..... Julia Miriam (1924)
Rose Sarah (1920s)
Maurice (1920s - am unsure of accompanying lady and location)
MWS
from Bham
I don't know why she was there but I still think it's a possibility. The year is wrong but the month of birth matches the reg. and she is single. Rose (Sarah Rose) and all her sister are mostly listed under their second name.
MWS
from Bham
I don't mind tangents. If requests get a bit more involved I sometimes do a bit of a tree to keep track of people and then if I find something interesting (which is more often than not) I look deeper and the tree grows.
Your tree is interesting, Chris, made more so by yours and your brother's recollections. There are a number of fascinating things I've came across which I hesitate to bring up as they are a little further back or involve some of your more distant relatives.
MWS, thanks for those comments. I have to say that I am deeply conscious of the effort and interest shown by you, Janice, Lyn and others in connection with the various aspects of my own family history so far raised in this thread. So grateful for it as well - and hopeful that you'll feel able to maintain it for a while longer! Perhaps the subject is a bit unusual, in that there is an existing history in existence, there exist first-hand accounts from the last 125 years and I am able to illustrate it with many images surviving for a similar period. The existing History was, as you know, created by my late elder brother and, knowing his character and methods, I can feel certain that the research work done was undertaken with rigour and complete honesty. If he felt doubt about anything that would have been made clear. Much of the earliest work, not discussed here, had to be conjectural and that was always stated. What he did not have was of course the benefit of three further national censuses, goodness knows how many other accessible records which have appeared over the last 30 years and the opportunity to carry out searches on them.
The existence of a History does of course raise its own problems. What I have to do (I am learning) is to ensure that any new aspect which I raise and cause you and others to delve into is qualified by somehow advising you about what I know already and saving you from quoting and discussing discoveries which, for one reason or another, I know to be probably irrelevant. This isn't easy – quoting chunks of the existing History isn't always feasible without everything becoming totally indigestible. And of course, who knows whether something new is, after all, highly relevant..... The Sarah Rose/Harborne Road aspect is a case in point. It was really a careless, almost throw away request from me because I knew that I had in my mind a glimpse from 80 years ago of one tiny aspect of my family history which could sit fairly comfortably with my memories of Mrs Black and Grandpa Tovey just up the road which I was mentally drafting. But then it appears there might be complications, even with all that!
If you are happy to carry on with this - and I really hope you all are – what I should like to do is tidy up the Rose Myers/Tovey question by my having a good think about what has been added to it and then jotting down what I can dig out from my personal memory of the High Street cottage and its occupants; and of Auntie Rose nearby. And posting it here for the record. After that I think I can safely leave all the additional information already posted here on the five Bannister sisters to be pulled together by me at a later date. (How I transmit the finished record to you subsequently I shall have to sort out). Tidying up the Harborne matters would leave us free to explore further new aspects, of which you have made a tantalising mention. So I am asking for your patience for a day or two to allow me to get up to date on where we are - in the hope that your interest doesn't fade in the meantime!
Another image of Auntie Rose (b. 1868) in the meantime. Probably the early/mid 1920s, when living with Julia and Maurice in Wheeley's Road, Edgbaston.
Chris
chris never worry about us getting fed up or bored of helping out...your brother did so well given his limited resources and you have done well in getting your family in some order...i always feel that however many years we research for there will always be something else to uncover especially given just how many new records are being added and its so much fun finding out new facts about our ancestors worts and all ..having said that my family do not seem to have had many worts much to my disappointment
just the odd brush with the law unless i can prove that my gt grandad had a hand in stealing the FA cup from a shop in newtown row..no way of proving it so it will remain a mystery but its something i would dearly love to prove..its mainly MWS and janice who are helping you i just dip in and out and try and check a few things out..however i will watch this thread with interestlyn
MWS
from Bham
I just can't see Rose on any record living on Harborne Road.
From 1921 onwards she is at 10 Wheeleys Road and then at 18 Pereira Road. She is not there on the 1940 ER and the people who are, are also listed there on the 1939 Register.
Unfortunately, there are no electoral rolls then until after the war by which time Rose has passed away. So she could have moved to Harborne Road after 1939 but I'm not sure what record would show it unless her death certificate does.
From 1921 onwards she is at 10 Wheeleys Road and then at 18 Pereira Road. She is not there on the 1940 ER and the people who are, are also listed there on the 1939 Register.
Unfortunately, there are no electoral rolls then until after the war by which time Rose has passed away. So she could have moved to Harborne Road after 1939 but I'm not sure what record would show it unless her death certificate does.
ROSE (AND CHARLES) MYERS
Thanks, Janice and MWS.
Janice - I have no recollection, regrettably, of the exterior of the house within which Rose had a room or rooms..... However.....
When I was looking at StreetView I was very much hoping that she would be found in one of the houses numbering 403 to 411 - on the basis that that would have been roughly its location in accordance with my childhood memory and also it was the sort of house which would match the little I remember about the interior. But.....
MWS - it does sound as though there is no trace of her in 1939 in the immediate area. I have no evidence but I have always felt that that where she would have gone, perhaps shortly after her brother Maurice's death in 1933, and she was left alone in Wheeley's Road apart probably from the lodger, Joe Dudley.
Unless there are other revelations (??) it does sound as though I shall have to slur the question of our precise location at the moment I was kicking my heels in her living room in the spring of 1944, watching my father pulling together what he needed to sort out her affairs.
(The presence of other Myerses in that area is surprising, especially as they share common forenames with my lot, i.e. Maurice and Charles. It does raise a little suspicion concerning the whereabouts of my grandfather, Charles Moss Myers (1866-1940), between his brief sojourn in Knowle, followed by a move to Leamington by 1921 (see 1921 Census) on the one hand; and, on the other, his being in Handsworth in 1940, awaiting the attentions of the Luftwaffe. He has always been thought of as spending most of the 1920s and early/mid-1930s in Leamington before moving to the Harborne area in the late 1930s - according to my brother's quite detailed recollections. But with his apparently footloose and even erratic widower's lifestyle ANYTHING is possible!)
Chris
Thanks, Janice and MWS.
Janice - I have no recollection, regrettably, of the exterior of the house within which Rose had a room or rooms..... However.....
When I was looking at StreetView I was very much hoping that she would be found in one of the houses numbering 403 to 411 - on the basis that that would have been roughly its location in accordance with my childhood memory and also it was the sort of house which would match the little I remember about the interior. But.....
MWS - it does sound as though there is no trace of her in 1939 in the immediate area. I have no evidence but I have always felt that that where she would have gone, perhaps shortly after her brother Maurice's death in 1933, and she was left alone in Wheeley's Road apart probably from the lodger, Joe Dudley.
Unless there are other revelations (??) it does sound as though I shall have to slur the question of our precise location at the moment I was kicking my heels in her living room in the spring of 1944, watching my father pulling together what he needed to sort out her affairs.
(The presence of other Myerses in that area is surprising, especially as they share common forenames with my lot, i.e. Maurice and Charles. It does raise a little suspicion concerning the whereabouts of my grandfather, Charles Moss Myers (1866-1940), between his brief sojourn in Knowle, followed by a move to Leamington by 1921 (see 1921 Census) on the one hand; and, on the other, his being in Handsworth in 1940, awaiting the attentions of the Luftwaffe. He has always been thought of as spending most of the 1920s and early/mid-1930s in Leamington before moving to the Harborne area in the late 1930s - according to my brother's quite detailed recollections. But with his apparently footloose and even erratic widower's lifestyle ANYTHING is possible!)
Chris
pjmburns
master brummie
The reason for asking first was that the address is not entirely clear as you can see on the attached.
As a matter of interest I also checked the erolls and 1939 reg for both 403 and 413.
Both houses are only a couple of minutes walk from 35 High Street so that fits your memory.
As a matter of interest I also checked the erolls and 1939 reg for both 403 and 413.
Both houses are only a couple of minutes walk from 35 High Street so that fits your memory.
My brother has a note of Rose being admitted to Selly Oak Infirmary, dying there on 13th May 1944. Does this explain the Raddlebarn Road reference?
Janice - yes you did, thanks. That was the home of his youngest child, Grace. He must have moved out before the bombing started. (Remember Doreen/"Dawn" very well from the postwar years. Must have been a crowded house - three beds max. and the household included two teenaged lads, my cousins. No wonder Grandpa bailed out!).
Chris
Janice - yes you did, thanks. That was the home of his youngest child, Grace. He must have moved out before the bombing started. (Remember Doreen/"Dawn" very well from the postwar years. Must have been a crowded house - three beds max. and the household included two teenaged lads, my cousins. No wonder Grandpa bailed out!).
Chris
So, I think we have an explanation, don't we? Rose left Wheeley's Road in 1934-ish, moved to another address in Harborne (identified) and moved again after 1939 to no. 403 Harborne Road, Harborne/Edgbaston - from where she was finally admitted to hospital and died in 1944 and which I visited with my dad not long afterwards.
QED? If so, thanks and phew!
Chris
QED? If so, thanks and phew!
Chris
MWS
from Bham
So definite proof that Rose did live on Harborne Road for a time.
Shame about the number. I'd favour 413, partly because if it was supposed to be a 0 you would have thought they'd done a better job with the correction to show it and partly because of the name of the lady living there makes me wonder if they were also Jewish. But just guessing.
Shame about the number. I'd favour 413, partly because if it was supposed to be a 0 you would have thought they'd done a better job with the correction to show it and partly because of the name of the lady living there makes me wonder if they were also Jewish. But just guessing.
Just visiting - short, between-digs, temporary stay - longer term arrangement?? Who knows? I wonder if that was it and he was back in Brum to stay, there or wherever. Possibly. Handsworth was an eventual, bad choice.
Dad and Mum must have ducked out - three bed-house also, three kids including one new baby. (I take a bow).
Chris