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Area bound by Temple Row Cherry St Corporation St Crooked Lane Bull St

sheri said:
Hi everyone, only just read this thread - back to Aidan's original questions - in my book on Building Birmingham - Cherry St. was one of a small development dating from the mid18th C. In October 1733 William Hay, toymaker, leased part of Guest's Cherry orchard from Moses Guest. he laid out Cannon St. Hay developed the site and built a second road linking with Guest's with Walkers Cherry Orchard - the road became Cherry St. When St. Philips was consecrated in 1715 a row of houses was built known as Temple Row, which consisted of ten houses in a block divided by Cherry St.
Sheri
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Thanks Sheri, that's useful info. I assume from this that the Cherry Orchard was originally laid out by the Priory, was grabbed by Gibbons (1543 map), divided into two fields (one owned by Guest with the Dovecote-like structure, one by Walker) that are shown on the 1731 map who then both start to lease out the land for development to Hays and others as you describe.

Does your reference have any pictures or maps perchance, or mention who owned/developed/Designed the Temple Row site - I wonder if it was William Ing & Penelope Philips who had given the land for the Church (hence the name) by the Designer Thomas Archer as it mentions they were built at the same time? I think Ann Colmore's land was to the North and John Pemberton's Square and Priory estate to the East. Moses Guest's land seems to have been in the West. Walker seems to have owned the Rackhams plot Southwards.
 
This pic has been posted before but I don't know who painted it or when.

It is the view south from St Philips c1850 but it shows nicely the 10 houses of Temple row, divided by Cherry St, on the left. There are trees in the garden, coach & horses at the front door and railings around the churchyard and paths through
 
Replacement image from the Shoothill site.
FD0B646C-152C-4750-8F35-3A67EBE07291.jpeg


Temple Row 29-37 was designed by that telented man, William Westley, the carpenter & map producer. The terrace was built in 1713 but demolished to create space for building Rackhams. This picture is less great than the building, but its all I have.
 
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Thanks BordesleyExile - I thought it may have been and I did put his view as picture 1 of post 1 of course, though not a good reproduction. If you have better and different ones it would be great to see them
 
At least its a different picture, Aidan. It would be good if someone could find a well taken photograph to do the architecture real justice.
 
That's actually a lovely pic thanks Shirley. I like the detail of the top of the building, the windows, doors & surrounds, the bollards & railings of St Philips Place & the wonderful gas lampost - Thanks!

I always imagine trysts to have been conducted under gas lamp-posts such as that but perhaps I am too romantic/naïve.
 
I think Birmingham lamp-posts are an unrecognised treasure, Aidan or at least pictures of them. Sometime perhaps we will have a thread on the subject, once the bigger architectural issues have been tackled fully.
 
BordesleyExile said:
I think Birmingham lamp-posts are an unrecognised treasure, Aidan or at least pictures of them. Sometime perhaps we will have a thread on the subject, once the bigger architectural issues have been tackled fully.
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Quad erat demonstrandum. Deep joy. I doubt you would be able to buy the replacement bulbs now though Bordesley Green'un...too risky...

See Aidan? If you steal from one author it's plagiarism; if you steal from many, it's research. I may not be the full shilling, but I know exciting coat tails when I see 'em. Cheers pal. Keep inspiring us..
 
Aidan said:
Thanks BordesleyExile - I thought it may have been and I did put his view as picture 1 of post 1 of course, though not a good reproduction. If you have better and different ones it would be great to see them
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Not better, Monkey-san, but near enough for Jazz. This is across the square on 't'other side. But THIS survived Armageddon. Now a great pub The Old Joint Stock. A brilliant conservation ploy. Combine architectural probity with bacchanalian splendour. Or something like that. I know. An Off topic wide down the leg side, but a guilty conscience is the mother of invention. Who said that?

Den
 
The lovely Fullers Old Joint Stock pub & now Theatre, although on an adjacent arm of the churchyard, is of interest. The website https://www.oldjointstocktheatre.co.uk/rte.asp?id=10 suggests that it was "Built in 1864, this grade two listed building was designed by Julius Alfred Chatwin, best known as a builder of many Victorian churches. Prior to being taken over by Lloyds Bank in 1889 it was the Birmingham Joint Stock Bank". https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&...jSl36sAEcB8OJML5RIV4Q&cbp=12,206.45,,0,-25.93

However it is clearly shown in the etching in an earlier post that was dated c1850 so one of the dates is incorrect, can anyone confirm the build date and info?
 
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Possibly both are wrong Aidan. the Birmingham Joint Stock Bank is listed as at no 4 Temple Row West in 1862, but in 1858 it seems to be The Birmingham New Library there. I'm nor entirely convinced thet the etching is the same building, though , allowing for artists' licence, it likely is.

Mike
 
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Thanks Mike - Birmingham New Library is tantalising. The etching does not show the Doric columns of today's building (they could have been part of a facelift) but the ornate roof-line looks very similar.

Thanks for the view of the Lamson system - I think the bigger shops must have used vacuum. I think modern supermarkets have a similar system.
 
In Samuel Lines 1821 painting it is a farmhouse https://www.bmagic.org.uk/objects/1893P72 and the etching must be after the 1834 Town Hall opening.

"The buildings on the corner of Upper Temple Street as far as the bend in Temple Row were demolished in 1823 for the opening up of Waterloo Street, which was driven through the middle of this open land towards Christ Church. Waterloo Street was crossed slightly later by Bennett's Hill, a street linking New Street with Colmore Row. By 1830, a Birmingham directory could describe these new streets as 'both rapidly filling up with handsome buildings, having stuccoed or plastered fronts".

1850-1860 seems right for the etching.
 
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Andy Foster writes that the Old Joint Stock was built 1862-4 by J A Chatwin and that the design established his reutation. Loooks like you were right to be suspicious, Mike. The west side of St Phillips churchyard had been developed from 1820 by the Inge Estate. The other notable building, as far as Foster was concerned, was the Birmingham Midshires 1900-1902 by Mansell & Mansell built for Ocean Assurance Corporation.
Thanks for the link, Aidan. How stunning the interior of the Old Joint Stock is.
I have attached a picture of Temple Row West from Dent's Old & New Birmingham.
 
I can confirm that OCEAN CHAMBERS was there, as that was where my dad spent most of his active service in WW2. He was a fire warden atop the building spotting and dealing with incendiary fires when Jerry was actively trying to recreate what the City Planners did later in the 60s. Who sir? Me sir? Bitter?
 
Just getting back to Bull Street and Crooked Lane for a moment attached below is part of an engraving entitled "Bull Street, Birmingham in 1840, from a rare print in the possession of Mr John Suffield". It shows Lamb House (Suffield's shop) and what may be the entrance to Crooked Lane (to the left of Suffield's).

The whole engraving is avaialble via this e-text of Eliezer Edwards's Personal Recollections of Birmingham and Birmingham Men (Birmingham: Midland Educational Trading Co Ltd, 1877), discovered by mikejee. It is located after all the text of the book, just before the first advertisement. It can be clicked on (twice) to magnify, and then right-clicked to download (about 480 k).
 
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Thanks Thylacine. It is a lovely record of the shape and shops of Bull St in 1840. I would love to think the opening you point out is Crooked St as per the pic in post-#2, which is strengthened by the facts of nearby Suffield (as per pic in post-#2) and on the same side as Cadbury (which later became Barrow's store).

However the row below (ie other side of the street) contains the junction with Temple Row and it surely must be on that side? To me that means that the opening is just that - a coach entrance to stables or yard. However, I can't explain where Crooked Lane is, Where the NWA entrance is, why Suffield and Cadbury are shown opposite. I think Crooked Lane is at the tri-junction with Bull Lane, Carrs Lane & Dale End and so maybe not shown at all.

Also where is the Minories (should be directly opposite Temple Row)? Why is Temple Row shown at one end of the street when it should be in the middle?

Mysteries I hope someone can explain....
 
Comparing the painting at post #2 (roofline and upper storey windows), the entrance to Crooked Lane would be to the immediate left of all that we see in the post #147.
 
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Hi everyone.Is there a genius out there who could superimpose one map on top of another?Say map from 1800 with maps from 1940s and a map of the area now.Then maybe we would all know where Crooked Lane was.Moss.
 
Thylacine said:
Just getting back to Bull Street and Crooked Lane for a moment (see posts #102, 111, 113, 117 and 120 et seq), attached below is part of an engraving entitled "Bull Street, Birmingham in 1840, from a rare print in the possession of Mr John Suffield". It shows Lamb House (Suffield's shop) and what may be the entrance to Crooked Lane (to the left of Suffield's).

The whole engraving is avaialble via this e-text of Eliezer Edwards's Personal Recollections of Birmingham and Birmingham Men (Birmingham: Midland Educational Trading Co Ltd, 1877), discovered by mikejee. It is located after all the text of the book, just before the first advertisement. It can be clicked on (twice) to magnify, and then right-clicked to download (about 480 k).
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Oh you Beauty! I've been trying to track down Eliezer's publication for a while now, and there it is. Chapter and verse. Now I'll never get any jobs done...
 
The 1890 survey map shows the location of Crooked Lane exactly...what was remaining after Corporation Street and Martineau Street was constructed. The entrance was at the junction of Bull Street and High Street as stated next to the Lamb House. If you look at the survey and contiue the top part of the lane up to Corporation Street then link that to the bottom of Cherry Street...then you have the extent of it. The part of the lane that was parallel to Corporation Street was known as Lower Cherry Street at one time.
Untill the 1890 survey none of the maps were accurate and the exercise would not be of much value. However the 1890 survey could be overlapped on GE to advantage.

Map. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...=10098&ox=2036&oy=1354&zm=1&czm=1&x=280&y=210
 
Another photo of Crooked Lane or Passage...

I think I will start another thread of these little alleyways and passages. they fascinate me.
 
Most of the Georgian houses were demolished to make way for the Cobden Hotel in the 19th C. Some were still there post the building of Rackhams, I remember them well, with Margaret Tregonnings flower shop being the most noticeable, as there were buckets of flowers up the steps. The remaining ones went with the building of the TSB.

Shortie
 
The ones on Cherry Street were still there. Mostly shops and not sure if Georgian or not. A good picture of Crooked lane...it's been here before...never mind. You can see Dale End at the bottom but the extension of the line to there would have taken a curve to the right at the intersection of Martineau Street, to arrive at the side of the Lamb House...about where Martineau St. started.

When the Lamb House was demolished they found the stone walls and steps of the old public well in the back yard. It was not disturbed but filled in and paved/built over. Perhaps the well may have been the reason for the junction of roads there originally. Don't tell the Time Team...
 
I have read that the old well was in a nook called Lamb's Yard at the bottom of Crooked Lane, close behind the old Lamb House. It would very likely have been an important central area creating a junction with roads, or pathways, leading off.
Crooked Lane is thought to have existed at least three and a half centuries ago and Lamb House even before that. When Lamb House was pulled down in 1886 the remains of a much older, half-timbered house were found. It had been plastered over but what was left of the massive beams and original bricks was enough to show the earlier house had been a fine example of (possibly) a 16th century building.
 
Since there was a market there way back, the well would also have been important for watering stock as well as the drovers. So maybe the location of the market there was because of the well pressence also and this fact would also have provided a need for roads/lanes to that point. The etching shows a stuccoed exterior to the Lamb House and the old photograph shows the peeling of this surface to uncover the bricks and half timbers underneath...showing that your text was correct.

See earlier posts.
 
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Wells were often in the middle of a central courtyard as they were socially important, as well as functional, meeting places. The courtyard would generally have have been big enough to accommodate livestock and horses, as well as people.
It is very likely the well was used by the market traders. If there was a natural source of water at that place, it is also likely that a well had been there for many centuries and had served as a crossroad point for the surrounding area.
 
The conjectured 1553 map shows a well there . although it is conjectured, rather than drawn then , it was based on a genuine survey.
Mike

well_behind_lamb_house_on_conjectured_map_of_1553.jpg
 
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