cookie273uk
master brummie
It's luck of the draw, a house opposite ours received a direct hit , both occupants killed, our house received minor blast damage - could easily have been the other way round. that's life. Eric
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Air raid shelters
- Thread starter Peter Walker
- Start date
If you read some of the horrendous stories about the use of cellars and the danger of being trapped within them - with a collapsed building above and perhaps the escape of water or gas down below - I think I would always have taken my chances in an outdoor shelter, assuming one was available. The Anderson must have saved many, many lives but would, like everything else, not have survived a direct hit. (Happily the majority of people would not have been the victim of one of those - instead they would suffer indirectly). The real dangers to most people came from building collapse and blast, especially from flying debris and glass.
Len Copsey told us, much earlier in this thread, that Andersons were issued free of charge to anyone earning under £5 per week and so could be regarded as reasonably available to most, assuming of course that you had a bit of garden to erect one in. There were about 3.5 million of them.
I remember that both of our neighbours in Streetly had a brick-built, overground shelter behind their houses. Don't remember their being built and/or whether they were official creations but they lasted for many years and possibly still do. Even to my very youthful eye they looked pretty flimsy. But presumably better than staying in the house under the stairs. My father was firmly of the underground school of thought and built his own version, based on a Great War dugout, in the garden. It was never put to the ultimate test but was our home for many long nights.
Chris
Len Copsey told us, much earlier in this thread, that Andersons were issued free of charge to anyone earning under £5 per week and so could be regarded as reasonably available to most, assuming of course that you had a bit of garden to erect one in. There were about 3.5 million of them.
I remember that both of our neighbours in Streetly had a brick-built, overground shelter behind their houses. Don't remember their being built and/or whether they were official creations but they lasted for many years and possibly still do. Even to my very youthful eye they looked pretty flimsy. But presumably better than staying in the house under the stairs. My father was firmly of the underground school of thought and built his own version, based on a Great War dugout, in the garden. It was never put to the ultimate test but was our home for many long nights.
Chris
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Bob Davis
Bob Davis
Was this the ARP shelter which was in Douglas's yard? If so my grandmother Ettie Vanstone who lived in Queens Road and bred Fox Terriers was an ARP warden and 'stationed' here. Many times when she was on duty, I would come down there and play with a strip of lead that I found and a small cable drum (and I still haven't got a life!!). On this subject where we lived in Court Lane, most of the houses had Andersons as the occupants were mainly on reserved occupations or over service age. My dad was in the RAF (his first posting was the Grange in Grange Road (why I do not know) and he would come home at nights) but then in 1940 he went off to India not to return until 1945. My mother told me that because he was on active service and there was no man at home, we were entitled to the Morrison shelter. We never fitted the front wire mesh. However the night the bomb fell in Goosemoor Lane, we did not hear the siren and slept soundly in our beds. Other nights my mother, my sister and myself would crawl in there together. Just after VJ day (my dad did not come home until Nocember 1945, some men from the corporation came, dismantled it and took it away.
Bob
Hi Bob. Don't know if the ARP shelter is in Douglas's Yard as I don't know the area. Maybe someone else does. Viv.
Jayell
master brummie
My father was the manager of the Clifton Cinema on Walsall Road at the start of the war. We lived in a house opposite. When there was an air raid we used to all go over to the cinema and shelter in the cellars. After a while my mother got fed up with doing this and it was her opinion that if our time had come we might as well be in our own beds. Luckily all was well.
Judy
Judy
brenda barr
master brummie
Viv, dad did'nt talk much about his experiences as a fire warden, he was a very emotional man and got upset very easily, but he would drop things here and there that made me realize what horrible things he saw,,,when a land mine dropped in Lozells he went to check on a family member luckily my aunt and uncle were okay,but lost everything also while searching the ruins of the house he saw a hand thinking it was a injured person he pulled on the hand only to find out that was all it was a hand..l am sure he had to block out his mind to some of the sights he saw, and it was to painful to talk about it...Brenda
Totally understandable Brenda. Don't think people who experienced that would want to be reminded. Very distressing. Viv.
Ernie Humphreys, a young sailor whose home was in Barford Street, told his story to the BBC People's War website some time ago. It demonstrates the dangers of cellars as a refuge in those days.
https://www.staffshomeguard.co.uk/DotherReminiscences87Deritend.htm
What heroism shown by ordinary blokes and what extraordinary circumstances which today we can barely imagine!
Chris
Home on seven days boiler cleaning leave from Royal Navy Destroyer Westcott, based at Gladstone Docks, Liverpool, the convoy base, 1940.
After a couple of days at home, one Tuesday evening at about 7.30 I decided to visit an old school friend. I was informed by his mother that he was visiting his sister who lived in Bishop Street. A few minutes after arriving and meeting my friend Jim Farrell and sister Sally and Annie as well as some friends, the Air Raid siren sounded. Jim and I opened the back door, looked into the moonlit night and saw a solitary plane. No guns were being fired.
Then Annie called us to come in and go down the cellar, “It’s OK, it’s been reinforced with girders so we will be alright”, she said. All I could think of was my mother at home with my gran and brother, I wanted to make sure they were alright, but there was no time.
After being down the cellar about five minutes or less I found myself buried in bricks and rubble up to my chest. I do not remember hearing a bang. After a few minutes I eventually freed my arms and as I looked up I could see the sky and it seemed I was at the bottom of a tunnel. The more I tried to pull myself out the more I was covered in old plaster and broken wooden lathes. My body was rigid and I was not able to move. I remember hearing Sally cry out "Please help me", I called back, "I can't, I'm stuck and can't move".
Nothing more until I woke up on Wednesday afternoon in the Queens Hospital, Bath Row, the centre of Birmingham. When I woke there was a person at the side of my bed who said he was a police detective, he gave me a cigarette and asked me a number of questions, then left leaving me the almost full packet of Players cigarettes.
After a couple of days at home, one Tuesday evening at about 7.30 I decided to visit an old school friend. I was informed by his mother that he was visiting his sister who lived in Bishop Street. A few minutes after arriving and meeting my friend Jim Farrell and sister Sally and Annie as well as some friends, the Air Raid siren sounded. Jim and I opened the back door, looked into the moonlit night and saw a solitary plane. No guns were being fired.
Then Annie called us to come in and go down the cellar, “It’s OK, it’s been reinforced with girders so we will be alright”, she said. All I could think of was my mother at home with my gran and brother, I wanted to make sure they were alright, but there was no time.
After being down the cellar about five minutes or less I found myself buried in bricks and rubble up to my chest. I do not remember hearing a bang. After a few minutes I eventually freed my arms and as I looked up I could see the sky and it seemed I was at the bottom of a tunnel. The more I tried to pull myself out the more I was covered in old plaster and broken wooden lathes. My body was rigid and I was not able to move. I remember hearing Sally cry out "Please help me", I called back, "I can't, I'm stuck and can't move".
Nothing more until I woke up on Wednesday afternoon in the Queens Hospital, Bath Row, the centre of Birmingham. When I woke there was a person at the side of my bed who said he was a police detective, he gave me a cigarette and asked me a number of questions, then left leaving me the almost full packet of Players cigarettes.
After two days in Queens and being visited by one of my brothers, who told me he had seen my name on the casualty list outside Digbeth Police Station. I was relieved as my mother knew I was alright, and I knew they were alright. I was also concerned about my Burberry raincoat as it contained my Pay Book, Identity Card, and also six one pound notes inside. (Gone but not forgotten). I was then taken by an American Red Cross ambulance to Rubery Hospital for the service wounded. I was treated for bruises and swollen limbs. After seven days I was allowed home. My mother had cleaned my uniform as I refused to wear the hospital uniform of white shirt, red tie, and light blue suit, worn by wounded service men.
Catching the tram to Brum I stopped at Bristol Street and walked down Wrentham Street towards my home in Barford Street, I called at the public house in Wrentham Street, I decided I would like a drink. Buying half a pint of mild I looked at the side of me and a man was holding a collection tin.
"What's that for?" I asked him.
"It's for the widow of the Home Guard who died of gas poisoning being lowered down that hole in Bishop Street", he said.
"I'd been told it was a land mine and took a row of houses. Was the person rescued?" I asked.
"Yes”, he replied, “eventually, it's a sailor, I do hope he's alright?
When I mentioned the sailor was me he nearly fainted. "Do you realise you are the only one out of twenty to survive?" he said.
The lad who was also rescued lost a leg under the cellar girder and died under the operating table of shock from losing his remaining leg.
The rest of the story of what happened in Bishop Street on that dreadful night and how one Home Guard gave his life in the rescue attempts as other men performed the most heroic acts, can be read here:Catching the tram to Brum I stopped at Bristol Street and walked down Wrentham Street towards my home in Barford Street, I called at the public house in Wrentham Street, I decided I would like a drink. Buying half a pint of mild I looked at the side of me and a man was holding a collection tin.
"What's that for?" I asked him.
"It's for the widow of the Home Guard who died of gas poisoning being lowered down that hole in Bishop Street", he said.
"I'd been told it was a land mine and took a row of houses. Was the person rescued?" I asked.
"Yes”, he replied, “eventually, it's a sailor, I do hope he's alright?
When I mentioned the sailor was me he nearly fainted. "Do you realise you are the only one out of twenty to survive?" he said.
The lad who was also rescued lost a leg under the cellar girder and died under the operating table of shock from losing his remaining leg.
https://www.staffshomeguard.co.uk/DotherReminiscences87Deritend.htm
What heroism shown by ordinary blokes and what extraordinary circumstances which today we can barely imagine!
Chris
Bob Davis
Bob Davis
Maurice
Quite agree, but the problem is that apart from people like us, this is being airbrushed very carefully from our history, it has taken 100 years to remind people of the horrors of WWI and unless you had a relation who had suffered in it (my grandfather was gassed) very little was known about it as those involved, like my grandfather said little about it. My father (RAF) who was in India and had the Japenese quite close for a while and father in law a Chief ERA (RN) who was sunk three times including Repulse did not and would not talk about WWII.
At Green Lanes school we had two shelters in the playground and had to use them on at least two occasions. I have no doubt that many members of the BHF do have long memories, sometimes probably sad and can remember the school friend, the family or the relation who had received the dreaded telegram. My mother, Having heard the news of Japanese air raids on the Indian/Burmese border refused to answer the door when a telegram arrived, because she thought it contained bad news. A neighbour took it in and came round (having read it) to say it was from her father in law to say his son was home and could we come to tea.
Still a fantastic c but frightening story. I was asked by my grandson to talk about being a child in the forties and was amused when one youngster asked if we saw all the killing and bombing on TV and did we send emails and Facebook messages to our fathers. I was almost to stunned to reply, but it gave me a lead for the next part of my talk. They were seven year olds by the way
Bob
Radiorails
master brummie
So many people, both men and women, have had quite traumatic episodes in both wartime and peacetime. In my experience they rarely talk of it - except maybe to colleagues who are often to be found in similar circumstances. I know many did relive their experiences, especially at night and without doubt many present day service people, both military and civil to day still do.
From experience families get used to judging whether to ask questions, or not, about their husbands, sons, wives or daughters activities where they are often in difficult or dangerous work. Likewise most only talk of the more mundane or comical occurrences.
On a personal note I found my father only told me nice things about his wartime service when questioned about it, particularly when he was in Norway. On the lighter side I add that as a radio Ham I often speak to Norwegian stations. I sometimes mention my father having been in their country but emphasize which army he was with.
From experience families get used to judging whether to ask questions, or not, about their husbands, sons, wives or daughters activities where they are often in difficult or dangerous work. Likewise most only talk of the more mundane or comical occurrences.
On a personal note I found my father only told me nice things about his wartime service when questioned about it, particularly when he was in Norway. On the lighter side I add that as a radio Ham I often speak to Norwegian stations. I sometimes mention my father having been in their country but emphasize which army he was with.
sospiri
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
Bob
Your last paragraph brings it all home and most of it boils down to poor quality education and political interference in the education system. Very little that any of us can do anything about that as THEY always know best. I'll stop at that point to avoid being accused of bring politics into BHF.
Alan,
Dad was only in WW1 and firewatching in WW2. Due to his poor health (C3), he was never engaged in fighting, but the only thing we learned from him was that he was the camp postmaster for the Tank Corps at Bovington. I have his service record, but at no point does it say what he actually did. He just wasn't interested in talking about it. Since in most cases there are no written records, once the people with their experiences have passed on, unless their descendants have made records, that's the end of it.
Maurice
Your last paragraph brings it all home and most of it boils down to poor quality education and political interference in the education system. Very little that any of us can do anything about that as THEY always know best. I'll stop at that point to avoid being accused of bring politics into BHF.
Alan,
Dad was only in WW1 and firewatching in WW2. Due to his poor health (C3), he was never engaged in fighting, but the only thing we learned from him was that he was the camp postmaster for the Tank Corps at Bovington. I have his service record, but at no point does it say what he actually did. He just wasn't interested in talking about it. Since in most cases there are no written records, once the people with their experiences have passed on, unless their descendants have made records, that's the end of it.
Maurice
Bob Davis
Bob Davis
Maurice
Everything you say is true and l agree we must steer clear of politics we are getting enough in the papers every day and we are also bringing a very sombre note to what is a fascinating discussion. As an 81 year old working every day still I hear the poorly educated all around me and think what has happened to the world, we had very little, Tim Enborne had his stick and his drum and his sash cord weight (envy is creeping in) I had only the stick and the drum, but I never felt the need to want anything else, that, children's hour and books from Erdington Library were sufficient oh and of course my Dad to come home. But all of us who are of an, we are history
An ARP journal was issued for Birmingham. Viv.
Bob Davis
Bob Davis
It should read....of an age, we are history now. Back to today has anyone a location for the ARP post in George Road, was it in Douglas''s Yard? Sorry I have moved from an ipad to a Samsung Tag (no I don'the know what it is either
Frothblower
Lubrication In Moderation
The air raid shelter in Pype Hayes Park now demolished.
Astonb6
master brummie
Many years ago (the early 60's) in our neighbours back garden in Aston, they had an old curved corrugated bomb shelter that had been filled in with earth that almost covered the top. The young lad living there was about the same age as me (8-9 years old) and one day we decided to dig into it looking for treasure as only a young kid of that age could believe in!
I can't remember how far we dug down but I do clearly remember we found a metal German Military Cross that was in good condition. We took it into his house and his father said he will take it and that's the last I ever saw of it!
As a child, I used to wonder how it ever got in the there even thinking maybe it was a German paratrooper hiding in the shelter and dropped it but most likely the previous occupants of the house lost it in there but then I will never know!
I can't remember how far we dug down but I do clearly remember we found a metal German Military Cross that was in good condition. We took it into his house and his father said he will take it and that's the last I ever saw of it!
As a child, I used to wonder how it ever got in the there even thinking maybe it was a German paratrooper hiding in the shelter and dropped it but most likely the previous occupants of the house lost it in there but then I will never know!
Attachments
Bob Davis
Bob Davis
Probably WW1, but if you put iron cross into google and go on Wikipedia, you can read all about it
Bob
Great picture, gingerjon! It looks like a standard Anderson with a significant DIY addition in the form of a blast-proof entrance porch.
(What a big organisation Hockley Garage must have been - presumably the same thing as "Hockley Brook". I have - online - a list of some 200 of the blokes who worked there who were also members of the Home Guard based at the Garage. A number of them must have been close colleagues of your mother).
Chris
When I moved into a new house here in Olton, some 45 years ago, one of the first things the wife wanted was the garden laying out. For some reason the builders had sloped the garden up approx. nearly 3 ft and as it got near to the fence about 5 ft it sloped down to the bottom of the fencing. I wanted the lawn flat so I took a 30 ft wedge off the top end full garden width and built a wall 10 ft from the house and the lawn was now 18" high. In doing so I hit some corrugated steel plate standing up near the top fence. You can guess, the front end of an Anderson shelter buried to full depth, I ain't digging that out, so using a 14 pound sledge hammer I managed to bend it over until it was 6" below the surface, it is still there . Why the builders did not fetch it out beats me, that's the reason why it sloped to hide it, they had a big digger on site so it would have been easy.
Dave
Dave
Thanks all for the comments on the Priory Road UXB. The posts relating to this have now been moved to here
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/priory-road-uxb-may-2017.47764/
Viv.
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/priory-road-uxb-may-2017.47764/
Viv.
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sospiri
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
Not quite sure where I should put this observation, but as this was one of the most recently active WW2 threads, and I didn't want to reopen a zombie thread, here goes.....
It's really for the benefit of younger researchers and not the old timers. When searching WW2 newspapers for reports of deaths due to enemy action, you will only ever find the phrase "died suddenly on such-&-such a date", never a reason such as "due to enemy action", even when several people died at the same location on the same day. Likewise for the In Memoriam notices during the period of the war. I presume that this was part of the D-Notices system to ensure that reports didn't give succour to the enemy that their raids had been successful.
Maurice
It's really for the benefit of younger researchers and not the old timers. When searching WW2 newspapers for reports of deaths due to enemy action, you will only ever find the phrase "died suddenly on such-&-such a date", never a reason such as "due to enemy action", even when several people died at the same location on the same day. Likewise for the In Memoriam notices during the period of the war. I presume that this was part of the D-Notices system to ensure that reports didn't give succour to the enemy that their raids had been successful.
Maurice
That's interesting Maurice. Is that the case for all newspaper reports of enemy action casualties during WW2? Viv.
sospiri
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
All the ones I have checked so far, Viv. I was checking the casualties of the Knowle Road raid on 17 October 1940 as the bomb site for the five houses was my playground as a kid. Three people lost their lives, two at the same address, and all failed to mention why in both death notices and in memoriam in the following years. Unfortunately the online papers stop at 1945 so I can't check later in memoriam entries for the same people.
Maurice
Maurice
S
Stitcher
Guest
I vaguely remember the sirens and the rush to get into the shelter.